Common reads

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Cool. My reading schedule is always full.

[Werner]

So is mine, Mike --if I don't have a buddy read or a common read in a group scheduled, I have a TON of backlogged books I want to read on my own! :-)

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I'm just trying to get through my library books so I can read a book or two I own. LOL

[Beverly]

I am amenable to a group read, whenever the group decides. The "Same Sex Controversy" is not available at my public library, so I wouldn't be able to participate in a group read of that title.
However, our library has recently purchased the Tolkien "Beowulf" and I have put it on hold. Not sure when I will get my copy to check out, though.

I am going to suggest a book that really got me thinking: Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church, which deals with themes of eschatology. DeMar has a very different point of view from Tim LaHaye, as evidenced in his fictional "Left Behind" book series.

[Werner]

Beverly, the DeMar book looks like an excellent choice (I hadn't heard of it before). We'll definitely put it in the poll!

Any time you want to read a book your local library doesn't have, ask your librarians about a service (which is usually free) called interlibrary loan, or ILL. That's where they borrow a book they don't have for you from another library that does have it. It's not as easy to get very new books this way (many libraries won't loan those by ILL, though some will); but otherwise, it's a very good way of getting access to most books, whether they're in print or not.

[Janelle]

I think the book I'd most like to read is The Same Sex Controversy, but it isn't at my library, and checking World Cat, it's only at one library in Australia, and that's not a public library.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Yeah our library system doesn't have it either, but I figure it's available on inter-library loan.

[Werner]

Many public librarians are open (and all of them ought to be) to suggestions from their patrons of books to order for their collection; some library systems even have regular forms for suggestions. That said, anti-Christian bigotry often rears its ugly head in library selection processes, just as it does in all other areas of modern life; but the adage "nothing ventured, nothing gained" still holds.

Janelle, you might also check out Christian colleges (though I know those aren't as numerous in Australia), Christian K-12 schools, and church libraries. If they don't have a book you want to read, their librarians might also be open to suggestions. That's just a thought!

[Janelle]

Thanks for the tip Werner, however I don't think our inter library loan system includes these institutions and i wouldn't have lending rights to them. At this stage I think Tolkien's Beowulf might be the easiest to find, so I'll do a search for its locations. If I can't find a copy I might have to give this read a skip.

[Banner]

Ok I'd like to nominate The Four Loves. I know we did a Lewis book last time, but we seem to have several fans and I believe it would be a beneficial read. Something to think about.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I'll say that I've read The Four Loves several times and always seem to get something I missed before.

[Janelle]

I'd be happy with The Four Loves as I'm a fan of Lewis and it's a book I should be able to get in Australia.

[Ron]

The Four Loves is good.

[Werner]

I've just posted a poll to gauge how much interest there actually is in the group for a common read this November, and sent a personal invitation to all of our members to vote. Unfortunately, the link in that message is inoperable because of a typo! Sorry about that (and thanks to Mike for promptly pointing it out)! Goodreads only allows me to send one broadcast message per day, so I can't message everyone with the corrected link until tomorrow. However, in case anyone tries to find it here, it's www.goodreads.com/poll/show/107971-ar... .

[Nathan]

I'd be interested in checking out a site calling itself Goofreads. Werner, you had better launch it!

I like the idea of reading Last Days Madness, because I find Eschatology fascinating and it's undeniably relevant to us all.
Hopefully this particular book includes a history of Eschatological thought as well as just a review of today's views.
I would also submit "Radical" By David Platt(not Mark Platt as I absentmindedly called him.)

[Nathan]

Speaking of typos, back in July Werner wrote:
"What I am hoping for is a read that could make some constrictive, practical difference in how we actually live our individual and common Christian lives in this world, or how we witness to our fellow humans, rather than a read that has no real effect except on our abstract thoughts."

:-) How do you manage these adjacent-key typos that still make sense and thus slip through the spell checker, but change your intended meaning so much? It is a great power that must be channeled for good.

[Werner]

Nathan, "Goofreads" might have potential, but for now I'll refrain from launching it. :-) But thanks for catching that typo in my post of last July (which I've now corrected)! I definitely meant "constructive," NOT "constrictive" --I hope our common reads will never be the latter! (And one of these days, I've got to learn to be more careful about proofreading....)

In your message 65, did you mean Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream by David Platt? Interestingly, the Sunday school class I attend is currently going through the video series and small-group study guide based on that book. Based on what we've been studying there, I'd definitely consider that book a worthy choice.

[Nathan]

One good typo deserves another Werner. I did indeed mean David not Mark Platt. Recently elected as President of the International Missions Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, I'd say this guy has something to say worth listening to. And this book is the only one outside of inspired scripture that has made me cry in recent memory.

[Werner]

Okay, Nathan, we'll definitely put that one in the poll!

[Werner]

On reflection, I'm going to withdraw my suggestion of The Same Sex Controversy as a candidate for our common read. It deals with what is perhaps THE defining issue for Christian faithfulness in out time (just as the question of burning "just a pinch of" incense to Caesar as a god was the defining issue in the 90s A.D.), and I think it's incredibly important for Christians to understand what we believe about it and why; but Radical deals with the even deeper and broader question of our whole life orientation, which impacts not just one area or issue, but everything. In terms of which one might have the greater overall edifying effect on our common life as a Christian community and individual walk as Christian believers, I'd have to cast my vote for Radical.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Hi Werner, could you link Radical? Thanks.

[Werner]

Mike, it's linked in message 67 above. Hope that helps!

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Thanks.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Well, I'll wait till we decide to buy it. Christians "seem" to be fragmenting over various beliefs (some rather peripheral). I hope that what we're seeing "most" is simply coverage of some "loud minorities" (like the Westboro Baptist Church).

[Werner]

Mike, even assuming that we do a November common read (and I'd say there's already enough interest expressed to make one viable --would you agree, Banner?), there should be time enough after the book-picking poll to get a copy by ILL, if your local library doesn't have it. You can certainly buy a copy of whatever book we select if you want to; but I'd hate to make any participant think that he/she has to buy one.

You mentioned Westboro Baptist Church. That church has, at last report, less than a hundred members, most of them part of founding preacher Fred Phelps' large extended family. By way of perspective, even counting just genuine as opposed to nominal believers, there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the U.S., and hundreds of millions in the world. The kindest thing that could be said about the (propaganda disguised as) "news coverage" of this statistically vanishingly insignificant congregation is that it's grossly disproportionate.

[Banner]

Agreed, there seems to be sufficient interest to participate in a common read. I look forward to a lively discussion!

[Werner]

Banner wrote: "I look forward to a lively discussion!" Me, too! I'll plan to put the poll for picking the book up around the beginning of October.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I know, that's why I used them as an example.

[Werner]

The poll officially closed with eight "yes" votes (only five people voted "no") with 30 more possibly interested depending on what book is picked. As noted above, that indicates enough of a core of interest to make for worthwhile participation. So we're on for November; the only question now is what book to read.

So far, our active suggestions are: Beowulf, The Four Loves, Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church, and Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream. Are we satisfied with this lineup? If not, there's still time to propose one or two more before I post the selection poll, at the beginning of next month.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I was thinking someone also nominated Being the Body. If they haven't I will. I read The Body some years ago and have been meaning to get to it for years.

Being the Body

[Werner]

I'd nominated it last year, Mike! Good suggestion; we'll put that one in the poll. We have a copy here at the BC library, and like you I've been meaning to read it. (I've never even read the first edition, which as you noted was simply titled The Body.)

[Banner]

Looks like a good list if books.

[Swantje]

I like the line-up including the new addition. The books are all very different from each other, but all look like they will be very interesting reads.

[Werner]

The poll is now up, and an invitation to vote has been broadcast to all group members. (I'll post the link here as well: www.goodreads.com/poll/show/109325-wh... .) It'll run through Oct. 12, and hopefully I'll announce the winner on the morning of Oct. 13.

Although I said (before Charles Colson's Being the Bodywas nominated) that I'd vote for Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream, I voted just now for the Colson book instead, mostly because the library where I work actually has a copy. Both books, though, seem to be excellent suggestions that address very basic, foundational principles (Radical would certainly be my second choice). But I'm sure that any of the five books will spark good discussion!

[Nathan]

Thanks Werner,

From what I know of Chuck Colson's position and work, I'll be voting for Radical.

I am suspicious of such a focus on ecumenical pursuits and redeeming the fallen culture of this world, at the expense of preaching a straight gospel message without compromise. I am not comfortable referring to any of the Popes as a "Christian leader", let alone considering their words as the "greatest comfort". All of which is not to say that I don't think there are any true Christians worshipping God from within the ranks of Roman Catholicism. I suppose my view is not going to meet with much agreement in the group, so let's see how the voting goes.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

....well to each. I'm involved in a prison ministry, it's actually one of the more rewarding parts of ministry so far. Of course I know those can be cyclical.

As for the Pope and Roman Catholicism while I disagree with much taught by the Roman catholic Church (including that the Bishop of Rome should be called the Vicar of Christ). That said I think I'll leave up to God who are his people. I disagree with doctrines of many different denominations but Christ obviously winks at many of our misunderstandings. I could be wrong but I think it was Francis Schaeffer or Karl Barth who spoke of the hidden Church. In other words the Church of God hidden inside many denominations.

I read The Body and it was a good book in which I found value. I plan to vote for Being the Body.

[Nathan]

I think prison ministry work and all that Colson did to promote it is fantastic. It's absolutely part of the practical side of the gospel message, and the example set by the Apostles makes this indisputable.

I agree that the true Church is visible only to God. We here on earth in our mortal bodies can only see the "visible Church" which is those professing to be disciples of Christ.

I will do my best to obtain a copy of and participate with the common read, no matter what book ends up winning. If nothing else, participating in such a group event around a book I might disagree with parts of, will ensure lively debate.

Looks like it's going to be the C.S. Lewis title based on first day voting.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I've read The Four Loves three or four times I always get something new from it it seems so I can reread it if that's what we choose.

[Werner]

Mike wrote: "I think it was Francis Schaeffer or Karl Barth who spoke of the hidden Church." It may well have been both. The distinction between the "visible" and "invisible" Church is a very old, basic Christian concept which has been recognized in many Christian traditions. (They talked about it when I was in parochial school in the Lutheran church, for instance.)

[Nathan]

Werner, I know you think you're old, but I'm pretty sure you were in parochial school in the 20th century. We see the invisible church being described in the New Testament canon:

[1Jo 2:19 ESV] 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

:-)
I know your point was that this doctrine is old and widespread. Just having a little fun.

[Werner]

Nathan wrote: "We see the invisible church being described in the New Testament canon" Yes, the basic reality of the "visible vs. invisible church" dichotomy is already reflected in the New Testament. I just wasn't sure when Christian writers started to actually use the "visible/invisible" language (and was too lazy to look it up :-) ).

Yes, I went to school in the 20th century. (It was back in 1901; I still remember writing on slates... okay, just kidding!)

[Ron]

You sure it wasn't charcoal on the back of a shovel, like Abe Lincoln.

(I should beware of entertaining that particular conversation since I remember real slate "blackboards".)

[Mike (the Paladin)]

We had to use wet clay....

[Ron]

...and those funny triangular-tipped styluses, But it was easy to fix errors, until it dried. Then they might as well have been "set in concrete."

[Werner]

I remember slate blackboards very well! In fact, they were still in use when I taught at the college level in the 90s. (Personally, I prefer them over the newfangled "whiteboards" that the current classrooms seem to be equipped with. But don't get me started on that subject...!)

[Ron]

I love white boards--except when I drag my sleeve over something I intended to save.

Someone has invented a whiteboard that periodically records everything into a computer file. Oooo.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

That's what (a white board) they have in the prison chapel where I go...but I have to bring my own marker. Someone always takes it if you leave one on the boards tray. Go figure.

[Ron]

You don't think because there are convicted thieves there, ...

[Mike (the Paladin)]

No. The convicts probably never get in there alone. Maybe other ministers or prison personal....

:)

[Ron]

haha.