Inferno
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did anyone thought Bertrand Zobrist was Elizabeth Sinskey's walked out fiancée?
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Rais
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rated it 4 stars
Jun 06, 2013 12:45PM
Knowing Dan has a knack for wrapping worse twists within a twisted one, Ever since the beginning with all the silver haired devil & stuff I had a gut feeling that Zobrist was the fiancée that walked out on her hearing she can not be pregnant & I was almost sure it was coming when Sienna told, the virus was to neutralize the globe (amending Sinkey's limitation to a global standard) and the video's loved & emotional statements addressed to her, not Sienna as seen in generally. I know its crazy talk but just wanna know if someone though the same line too. Cheers!
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nooo... not at first but now that you suggest it it seems quite nice and probable, and it would've been a really good twist!!!
Only problem is, he introduced himself when he invited her to meet with him in NYC. It was obvious then they'd never met.
But I dig the idea!
But I dig the idea!
To me it doesn't make sense. If it was him, he would want to stay with her considering he was all about over population. There would be no offspring between the two so it would have been a match for him.
Mick wrote: "Only problem is, he introduced himself when he invited her to meet with him in NYC. It was obvious then they'd never met.But I dig the idea!"
You're forgetting it's Dan Brown writing & he's the bloody master of deception (remember the steamy reminiscence of the cold night with Zobrist, anyone would think it was the Doctor's memory but actually it was Sienna) so introducing to her after so long & in a darkened room would be just a decoy misdirection by Mr. Brown as I thought till the end.
Troy wrote: "To me it doesn't make sense. If it was him, he would want to stay with her considering he was all about over population. There would be no offspring between the two so it would have been a match ..."The guy was all about world wide improvisation, not just him. I thought the very ending of the video where he refers to some person who was equally inspiring to him for his Inferno, I put it in like she gave him the inspiration to go for that & Sienna merely was a useful tool for his plan.
I guess I read too much Dan Brown to over think anything he supplies to believe at first hand
Will you read more by him? I don't know if I will. I enjoyed parts of the book and rated it three stars. I only finished it because I was so far along in it I had to see the end. But I agree with you, he could have tied that into the story and it would have made it interesting.
Troy wrote: "Will you read more by him? I don't know if I will. I enjoyed parts of the book and rated it three stars. I only finished it because I was so far along in it I had to see the end. But I agree wi..."I have read all he wrote to this date. Regardless of the fact he's becoming repeatedly expectable & pattern centered, I enjoy his narrative & suspense. After Illuminati, DaVinci, Freemasons, here in Inferno I'm starting to think he's getting short of secret societies & cults that are familiar to common people. If a friend of mine never suggested me Dante's Inferno the Animated Epic, I'd have no clue what the hell is Inferno & all. Never regarding his work as literature a good old hotcake never gets too old when it's been served in 3/4 year intervals. Suppose I will read, but with lesser enthusiasm I guess.
I don't mind the style at all. To me it is no different than a 5 book series from an author. I liked all of his other books A LOT. Even The Lost Symbol. I did like the learning about Dante's Inferno, as I didn't know near anything about it before reading. But for me, there was just tooooo much descriptive details about art and buildings that took away from the action of the story. I will probably read his future works as well.
There are already more than enough plot twists in the novel. My brain will explode if I read this on the book itself
Mick wrote: "Only problem is, he introduced himself when he invited her to meet with him in NYC. It was obvious then they'd never met.But I dig the idea!"
Good point Mick, they didn't recognize each other but it would have been good plot twist.
Rais wrote: "Mick wrote: "Only problem is, he introduced himself when he invited her to meet with him in NYC. It was obvious then they'd never met.But I dig the idea!"
You're forgetting it's Dan Brown writin..."
I absolutely agree. I thought for sure it was the male doctor who was in love with Zobrist. I thought maybe he was the plague carrier not that strange bag in the water.
It cannot be her. Zobrist was being followed by sinskey and died jumping off the tower. I dont think its her.
I dont't think so. Bertrand would'nt have left her for being sterile. On the contrary, Elizabeth Sinskey would have posed as the best possible partner.
Laveeshka wrote: "I dont't think so. Bertrand would'nt have left her for being sterile. On the contrary, Elizabeth Sinskey would have posed as the best possible partner."
Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that!
Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that!
The theory wouldn't explain why he would leave Elizabeth, if he didn't want anymore people on an over-populated planet then he should have been thrilled at the fact that they couldn't have children, after all Bertrand made people infertile!!
Nikki wrote: "The theory wouldn't explain why he would leave Elizabeth, if he didn't want anymore people on an over-populated planet then he should have been thrilled at the fact that they couldn't have children..."
Same thing I thought.
Same thing I thought.
Mick wrote: "Laveeshka wrote: "I dont't think so. Bertrand would'nt have left her for being sterile. On the contrary, Elizabeth Sinskey would have posed as the best possible partner."Excellent point, I hadn't..."
It only said he left & she never saw her again. What if he left with a mission, a purpose, never seen him won't say never been in contact. Like he was inspired by her example & set out to turn the world the way he dreamed it to be, then finally return to her making her situation common for all. Dan mentioned, He saw his loved one in his dying moments, Sinskey had far better chance to be there with the WHO-commando force, than Sienna. Dan Brown does that a lot. To ensure that to the world what was with Sinskey & then return to her. I mean these kind of psycho's never cared for being dead or alive, more joy in the greater good. I was just saying a "what if" thought.
No, it didn 't definitely seem so. Firstly, Bertrand introduced himself when they met, and secondly there were no emotional tussles within Sinskey when Bertrand's identity was revealed as the mastermind.
I didn't work out how come the spiky haired assassin was involved in the deception at the hospital and fired blanks, then seemed to think she had failed her mission. Maybe someone can let me in on a plot I obviously read to much into.
i'm not getting this ongoing debate at all.For all those who've actually read the whole book, acc. to it
isn't ELIZABETH 61 & ZOBRIST 46..
How could he be her fiancé anyway...????
I think it could have been... Maybe, he became infatuated with overpopulation and creating a 'cure' for the human race as a tribute to his undying love for Elizabeth and the mistake he made years before. Either way, it is an interesting take on the story. I like the thought that Elizabeth was his muse.
I was certain that Sienna would turn out to be the genetically engineered test tube baby of Zobrist and Elizabeth, and that she had been engineered to be immune to the plague and carry a shitload of "smart" genes. And that her baldness was a side effect of said genetic engineering. I thought this fit quite nicely with a) Elizabeth's steroid-medated infertility, which would not have affected her eggs, only her ability to carry a baby to term b) Zobrist's desire to depopulate the earth with a plague (I didn't catch on to the fact that it was an infertility plague until later...) c) Zobrist and Sienna's H+ philosophy about creating a superhuman race, and d) Sienna's baldness. I still halfway think that was probably the original plot, and Dan Brown canned it when he realized how many people are sick of someone always turning out to be someone else's long-lost child in his books :)
No, he probably would have stayed with her because she couldn't procreate. He was against having more births on the planet due to over population. He wouldne a hippocrate if he wanted to have children, but didn't want others to. I think he was selfless in his own mind.
Kristen wrote: "I was certain that Sienna would turn out to be the genetically engineered test tube baby of Zobrist and Elizabeth, and that she had been engineered to be immune to the plague and carry a shitload o..."Nice thought! but that would have really questioned the Zobrist-Sienna sex flashback to a very ..... well you get the point, lets not talk about that!
Rais wrote: "Kristen wrote: "I was certain that Sienna would turn out to be the genetically engineered test tube baby of Zobrist and Elizabeth, and that she had been engineered to be immune to the plague and ca..."Yeah, my presumption of course was before that scene - otherwise...ugh...
Rais wrote: "Knowing Dan has a knack for wrapping worse twists within a twisted one, Ever since the beginning with all the silver haired devil & stuff I had a gut feeling that Zobrist was the fiancée that walke..."I would say that I didn't think this, because of the sole reason that Zobrist is an anti-pro creationist, and the fiance that walked out on Elizabeth, was, as far as I gathered, upset because she couldn't have children. I know it had noted that 'maybe' the fiance was upset because she had lied, or failed to tell him about her inability to do so, but if it was Zobrist, I suspect he would have been indifferent at best, about that, rather than upset.
If there should be a personal impetus for Zobrist to create a pernicious viral vector of infertility, it should be based on the immense disappointment caused by the barrenness of his lover ( we assume in this thought experiment that Sinskey was indeed his jilted lover).People who are stating how an infertile woman could be the perfect mate to a person who wishes to thin the world population for the sake of human survivability and the betterment of science through trans-human efforts, seem to ignore a huge possibility. What if she had transformed his nature?
What if Zobrist was initially a reasonable man who did fear for the sake of humanity but did not intend for a ''holocaust'' magnitude master-plan, until the fateful announcement from his fiancee, which had caused him great anguish and discontentment?
Perhaps then, at that cusp in time, he abandoned all forms of ethical research and decided to unleash his suppressed rage through the twisted infertility deluge that reflected his plight of never being able to produce an offspring with the love of his life.
A questionable point in the book involves a sequence towards the end whereby Elizabeth had discussed about the WHO's possible reactions towards the released threat. She had stunned Sienna by suggesting that nothing be done to resolve the crisis since it was not an actively dangerous phenomenon like the endemic plague. This sudden aloofness could signify the conscious complicity of Elizabeth in the entire Zobrist saga all along.
These are alternate ways to insinuate a love affair.
However, from a personal point of view, there is nearly no practical chance for Elizabeth to be Zobrist's lover simply based on the context of their opulent profiles in society. In this day and age where paparazzi-type stalkers are omnipresent and our compact mobile devices offer instantaneous connections to the world wide web where information are readily exchanged between one corner of the world and another, any average folk could find out which celebs are dating who and certainly about the ex-fiance of the WHO's director or who she was with prior to her post.
Zobrist's colleagues' tongues would have wagged and so would have Elizabeth's. Someone would have been in the loop somehow since Elizabeth had been in the relationship for a long time.
Couple this with the fact that the Provost and his crew on the Mendacium would have scrutinized Zobrist's personal documents the moment the Provost decided to break the establishment's privacy protocol during his detection of danger.
There would be huge ramifications to the plot. The provost would logically attempt to expose this relation to Robert Langdon so that he is fully aware of any possible ulterior motives on Elizabeth's part and also to seek Elizabeth's openly voiced guarantee that they were in fact working on the same side and her ties with Zobrist were estranged at best.
In the story's progression however, the provost had no informational advantage over Elizabeth ,which saw him being reduced into a desperate criminal accomplice who had to abscond ( albeit only to fail) during the slightest opportunity.
Of course, not forgetting, there was indeed a huge age gap between Zobrist and Elizabeth but I feel that my prior points were more relevant towards dismissing Zobrist and Sinskey's dalliance theories.
the funniest part was when Sienna said "Don't tell me we're in the wrong museum." then Langdon replied "Sienna, we're in the wrong country." awwwh!haha i was like wtf you guys.
Laurenzo wrote: "If there should be a personal impetus for Zobrist to create a pernicious viral vector of infertility, it should be based on the immense disappointment caused by the barrenness of his lover ( we ass..."Thanks for you thoughts. I never said it was too logical to happen, but as a possibility it could have been.
Laveeshka wrote: "I dont't think so. Bertrand would'nt have left her for being sterile. On the contrary, Elizabeth Sinskey would have posed as the best possible partner."Maybe Sinskey was the inspiration for his plague. After all, his plague causes sterility.
she is way older than himbut i've never thought of it that way.
it would be interesting
plus, when they first met, he introduced himself to her.
i'm pretty sure she would have remember him.
It's clear sinskey wasn't with zobrist at any point as a couple. This book was a good read, but it turns out the virus spread early... making the whole chase a little less worthwhile. All that build up and it turns out that no one is that bothered about the virus - it seems. Zobrist is almost a hero in the end so no real twists where a villain is suddenly unveiled. It is the least exciting langdon story yet - for me. Although I still enjoyed it!
Yes, I think there's just too much of an age difference. Doesn't the fiancé dump her around med school time? So they're in their twenties or so...Zobrist would have been a child.
Didn't think of it until I just saw the question, but first would'nt have he still been a child. Second didn't he think additional children (surplus population) was the problem- not the answer. Third wouldn't he have considered a barren woman to be the perfect wife?
Dan Brown - Inferno. Zobrist's two lovers. SPOILER ALERT.Zobrist had two lovers, one gay (the fake doctor) and the other straight, Sienna. Both recount the SAME series of events in Chicago, during a blizzard, six years ago in January. (Chapters 66 and 79)
WHAT's going on? How can they both have these memories or the fake doctor, Sienna and Zobrist in a threesome?
Anyone have any clue?
Thanks
Richard wrote: "Dan Brown - Inferno. Zobrist's two lovers. SPOILER ALERT.Zobrist had two lovers, one gay (the fake doctor) and the other straight, Sienna. Both recount the SAME series of events in Chicago, dur..."
I think it was only Sienna. I think the scene was set up to make it look like the fake doctor was his gay lover, but that was a red herring. It was Sienna all along.
Kristen wrote: "Richard wrote: "Dan Brown - Inferno. Zobrist's two lovers. SPOILER ALERT.Zobrist had two lovers, one gay (the fake doctor) and the other straight, Sienna. Both recount the SAME series of events..."
Hi Kristen
Thanks for that. Knowing Dan Brown's twists and turns I can think it was Sienna except that it was the fake doctor's private thoughts that we were reading, his memories. If he was talking about the relationship to others, then I'd accept it was fake. But,oh... I am confused on this.
Richard
Had guessed it.Dan Brown novels can be pretty predictable at times
Tanvi wrote: "Had guessed it.Dan Brown novels can be pretty predictable at times"
Totally. I hadn't thought about the fiancee part. But I sure was certain Sienna was involved in some way the moment I knew she was bald. I went like - "OK, this woman has issues. Perfect!". But then a few things did confuse me in between. For example, the introduction of the Ferris character and the reference to FS-2080 at the right places, made me suspect Ferris was Zobrist's lover somehow and that Sienna and Ferris were working together somehow.
Totally. I hadn't thought about the fiancee part. But I sure was certain Sienna was involved in some way the moment I knew she was bald. I went like - "OK, this woman has issues. Perfect!". But then a few things did confuse me in between. For example, the introduction of the Ferris character and the reference to FS-2080 at the right places, made me suspect Ferris was Zobrist's lover somehow and that Sienna and Ferris were working together somehow.
I was thrown too about Ferris and Serena - still am about Ferris. What happened to him?
Susan wrote: "I was thrown too about Ferris and Serena - still am about Ferris. What happened to him?"
What do you mean? Ferris was one of the provost's men.
What do you mean? Ferris was one of the provost's men.
Elaine wrote: "i'm not getting this ongoing debate at all.
For all those who've actually read the whole book, acc. to it
isn't ELIZABETH 61 & ZOBRIST 46..
How could he be her fiancé anyway...????"
Haha. Age simply doesn't matter sometimes. Whether the relationship ends up working is another matter. But then I've dated women older than me. It's no big deal. ^^
For all those who've actually read the whole book, acc. to it
isn't ELIZABETH 61 & ZOBRIST 46..
How could he be her fiancé anyway...????"
Haha. Age simply doesn't matter sometimes. Whether the relationship ends up working is another matter. But then I've dated women older than me. It's no big deal. ^^
Tanvi wrote: "Had guessed it.Dan Brown novels can be pretty predictable at times"Yes it was predictable at some places. But the way Dan unravels every twist was totally exciting. The book was completely sunk in the palace of secrets ;) except for a part he left unexplained, like how sienna flew over from Venice to Istanbul.
When one party is not an adult, age matters. Their ages may have been 61 and 46 during the time the book takes place, but Elizabeth was engaged when she was in med school.
It was mentioned. She took the plane of a powerful bloke (follower of Zobrist) to fly back.
Richard wrote: "Dan Brown - Inferno. Zobrist's two lovers. SPOILER ALERT.Zobrist had two lovers, one gay (the fake doctor) and the other straight, Sienna. Both recount the SAME series of events in Chicago, dur..."
Dude it was never mentioned that the Doctor(fake) had the memories with Zobrist! Just read the chapters over again and you'll understand how Dan played with Sienna's real name and the code name! It was Sienna who was involved in Zobrist's Romance! It's just that Dan made it confusing to understand at once. I suggest you reread the book!
I got confused with Jonathan Ferrris if he is a gay or what so I ended up being here. I regret I searched for it having read all ur comments! Such a spoiler but my fault indeed.. uurgghh
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