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TV, Movies and Games > stop killing our favorite characters please

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message 1: by Kristina (last edited Jun 03, 2013 11:32AM) (new)

Kristina | 588 comments So I guess HBO's latest episode showed the red wedding and now people are posting their displeasure to hbo for killing their favorite characters... lol


the link: -oh and its spoilery if you haven't read/watched it
http://www.today.com/entertainment/ga...


message 2: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments my favs are still alive (i'm talking about the end of ADWD)


message 3: by Louise (new)

Louise (louiseh87) | 352 comments This is exactly why I've neither finished the book series nor watched the TV series. I lost interest when everyone I was rooting for went and died.


message 4: by Kristina (new)

Kristina | 588 comments Now E! has an exclusive interview with George about the red wedding and killing important characters.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/02/gam...


message 6: by Louise (new)

Louise (louiseh87) | 352 comments Rob wrote: "https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears"

:D

Oh dear.

In my head, these characters died 10 years ago. Glad the non-reading world is catching up :P


message 7: by Rob, Roberator (new)


message 8: by Matthew (last edited Jun 03, 2013 04:20PM) (new)

Matthew (matthewdl) | 341 comments I love the reactions. I've been reading the books after I watch the show (a habit I'm about to break because I can't wait any longer) and that episode definitely made me love/hate George R.R. Martin in a big way.

I now love/hate George R.R. Martin as much as I hate/love George Lucas.


message 9: by Neil (new)

Neil | 165 comments Louise wrote: "Rob wrote: "https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears"

:D

Oh dear.

In my head, these characters died 10 years ago. Glad the non-reading world is catching up :P"


I started on the books late and only just read that bit this morning. Glad I got to it before the internet exploded with spoilers. Then again I am not sure that 'well loved character dies in Game of Thrones' can really be considered a spoiler anymore.


message 10: by Darren (new)

Darren There were well-loved characters at the Red Wedding?


message 11: by Rob, Roberator (new)

Rob (robzak) | 6668 comments Mod
I was way more upset about Eddard than the Red Wedding.


message 12: by Michele (new)

Michele | 1154 comments Just to show how committed a writer Martin is... http://www.theonion.com/articles/oh-s...


message 13: by Rob, Roberator (new)

Rob (robzak) | 6668 comments Mod
Michele wrote: "Just to show how committed a writer Martin is... http://www.theonion.com/articles/oh-s......"

Lol


message 14: by Darren (new)

Darren Rob wrote: "I was way more upset about Eddard than the Red Wedding."

I was most upset when they killed Tyrion off like that. Eaten by lions... the irony alone.


message 15: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Darren wrote: "Rob wrote: "I was way more upset about Eddard than the Red Wedding."

I was most upset when they killed Tyrion off like that. Eaten by lions... the irony alone."


was he?


message 16: by Rob, Roberator (last edited Jun 04, 2013 03:43AM) (new)

Rob (robzak) | 6668 comments Mod
Kamil wrote: "Darren wrote: I was most upset when they killed Tyrion off like that. Eaten by lions... the irony alone."

was he?"


Thrown to the lions? yes. (or well they were supposed to be after their show..but it never happens)

Eaten by them? no.


message 17: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Rob wrote: "Kamil wrote: "Darren wrote: I was most upset when they killed Tyrion off like that. Eaten by lions... the irony alone."

was he?"

Thrown to the lions? yes. (or well they were supposed to be after ..."


My point was, that Tyrion was in so many certain death situations that I stopped even paying attention


message 18: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 827 comments I guess seven years of Buffy and the last couple of Harry Potter books kind of steeled me for these things. I still care and was surprised by a couple of deaths in GoT, but I'm not actually outraged.

While I understand people being upset I agree that it's pretty brave of an author (or show writer) to kill of loved characters. But as much as I hate it when it happens, I think it makes for a good story in the end. Only ever killing the bad guys gets predictable after a while.


message 19: by Pupsi (new)

Pupsi (pupsiphull) | 23 comments Louise wrote: "This is exactly why I've neither finished the book series nor watched the TV series. I lost interest when everyone I was rooting for went and died."

Louise, same for me for the books. I decided that I would wait until the series is complete before investing my time back in the series. or watch the series to get a sneak preview to the books (i.e who is still in the TV series may be someone to invest in for the books).


message 20: by Dara (last edited Jun 10, 2013 08:09AM) (new)

Dara (cmdrdara) | 2693 comments I don't mind when main characters are killed if it make sense to the story, like on Game of Thrones. I was shocked when Ned died but it set the tone for the world of Westeros. This place is not safe. The good guys don't win by being good. I was shocked by the Red Wedding as well but those deaths served a purpose as well and were kind of hinted at. (view spoiler) The manner of the deaths was awful but it made sense story-wise.

What I don't like is when characters are killed just for shock value, which happens on The Walking Dead every other week. Nothing serves the story and it's all done so people talk about it the next day and people tune in to see who dies.


message 21: by Rik (new)

Rik | 777 comments Apparently a lot of people weren't paying attention when Ramsay Snow said "If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention."


message 22: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Rik wrote: "Apparently a lot of people weren't paying attention when Ramsay Snow said "If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention.""

Oh speaking of Ramsay Snow... i hope he gets eaten by his flock of dogs


message 23: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (new)

Tassie Dave | 3429 comments Mod
A Song of Ice and Fire will have a happy ending.

It will just depend on whose Point of View you are seeing it from. ;-)

Having main characters die makes death, and also who survives, more meaningful.


message 24: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Tassie Dave wrote: "A Song of Ice and Fire will have a happy ending.

It will just depend on whose Point of View you are seeing it from. ;-)

Having main characters die makes death, and also who survives, more meaning..."


but some of those deaths and surivals defy the laws of nature and probability


message 25: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments did you notie both Stannis and Jon, didn't have a last meal?


message 26: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (last edited Jun 06, 2013 09:07PM) (new)

Tassie Dave | 3429 comments Mod
Kamil wrote: "did you notie both Stannis and Jon, didn't have a last meal?"

Stannis and Jon are both still alive in the show.

Warning: Spoiler for books (view spoiler)


message 27: by Rasnac (new)

Rasnac | 336 comments Darren wrote: "There were well-loved characters at the Red Wedding?"

My feelings exactly! When I first read the red wedding, I only felt bad about Arya who missed the only chance she got to be reunited with her family.

I never cared much about Robb and I was glad to see Catelyn dying a horrible death. She was the most annoyingly stupid character in the series. But tv series made those characters much deeper and sympathetic than they were in the novels. :/


message 28: by Micah (new)

Micah (onemorebaker) | 1071 comments Dara wrote: "I don't mind when main characters are killed if it make sense to the story, like on Game of Thrones. I was shocked when Ned died but it set the tone for the world of Westeros. This place is not saf..."

you may want to put the bottom portion of your statement in a spoiler tag. Even though many people have read the books and/or watched the Television show others have not and that statement is a massive massive spoiler for Book 3.


message 29: by Dara (new)

Dara (cmdrdara) | 2693 comments Apologies. Didn't think about it cause this is a thread discussing character deaths and the Red Wedding so I didn't tag it. I can't edit it now though via app and no computer this weekend.


message 30: by Trike (new)

Trike | 7930 comments Kristina wrote: "So I guess HBO's latest episode showed the red wedding and now people are posting their displeasure to hbo for killing their favorite characters... lol"

I remember when some of my non-reading friends were watching the first season of Game of Thrones and were under the impression that Ned Stark was the main character. THAT was an amusing uproar to see.

I said to them, "I'm guessing you've never read the books. Pro tip: don't get attached to anyone over 4 feet tall. Well, anyone who isn't named Tyrion."


message 31: by Paul (new)

Paul Nardone | 19 comments It's the mark of a good writer that can get people to care enough about a character to get upset about their death.

killing off non favourite characters is pointless and has no emotional impact. Unless they wear a redshirt.


message 32: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Trike wrote: "Kristina wrote: "So I guess HBO's latest episode showed the red wedding and now people are posting their displeasure to hbo for killing their favorite characters... lol"

I remember when some of my..."


how would you measure Bran's height?


message 33: by Trike (new)

Trike | 7930 comments Kamil wrote: "how would you measure Bran's height? "

Variable.


message 34: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments Trike wrote: "Kamil wrote: "how would you measure Bran's height? "

Variable."


hodor-high or warg-high?


message 35: by Baelor (new)

Baelor | 169 comments I loved the Red Wedding in the books and I loved it in the TV show. Martin goes where most authors in the "gritty" genre should but don't.


message 36: by Trike (new)

Trike | 7930 comments Brian wrote: "I loved the Red Wedding in the books and I loved it in the TV show. Martin goes where most authors in the "gritty" genre should but don't."

You should read the Deryni Chronicles by Katherine Kurtz. She did it better, I think, and 30+ years ago, to boot. 40 years ago in some cases.


message 37: by Baelor (new)

Baelor | 169 comments You should read the Deryni Chronicles by ..."

Thanks for the recommendation. I have added it to my (ever-increasing) list!


message 38: by Jute (new)

Jute | 9 comments I understand people read books for different reasons. I have read books where authors killed characters I loved and although I hated seeing them die, I was okay with it. What I'm not okay with is every show of mercy being punished. I think that unrelenting darkness is as unrealistic as unrelenting lightness. I stopped reading the books because I felt they were harsh for the sake of harshness.


message 39: by Chad (new)

Chad (doctorwinters) | 180 comments I agree with Jute, I can see the Art of it and I like the idea of no one being safe. It definitely seems more real, the problem is the unrelenting darkness, combined with the death of any favorable characters, left me just to blah to continue the books.

Maybe someday I'll be in the mood to continue reading about a world filled with people even more hopeless, selfish, deranged or dead than ours.


message 40: by Forbes (new)

Forbes West (forbes_west) | 36 comments I'd agree with Chad about it being kind of a joy kill. I can handle enough of it on a semi regular basis but I'm not always in the mood to be holocaust level depressed when I read. Also, shit like that can work in books but when you start knocking decent actors its hard to replace them after a while- there' s not a deep bench in Hollywood for this sort of stuff.


message 41: by Kamil (new)

Kamil | 372 comments you know G.R.R. Martin could pull out "The Jordan" ? (authors tend to do that when they don't want to finish a series)


message 42: by P. Aaron (new)

P. Aaron Potter (paaronpotter) | 585 comments Jute wrote: "I understand people read books for different reasons. I have read books where authors killed characters I loved and although I hated seeing them die, I was okay with it. What I'm not okay with is every show of mercy being punished. I think that unrelenting darkness is as unrealistic as unrelenting lightness..."

That's a perfectly valid position, though I differ inasmuch as, while it's fashionable right now to smack George R. R. Martin for being terribly ruthless, I don't think he has killed a single major character in my reading so far who didn't pretty much deserve it. In the Red Wedding particularly, for instance, I think everyone who got whacked pretty much needed to get whacked.

I would contrast this with Joss Whedon, who I think crosses the line way too often, killing characters off just to manipulate the audience and sneer at them ("see, see what I did to your beloved character? Cause I *can*, so THERE! Nyah!") Just finished Cabin in the Woods, and I found the irony between his professed reasons for the film ("Oh I hate me that torture porn") and his own history ("I bet they'll cry if I wax such-and-such...") to be fairly hypocritical.


message 43: by Dara (new)

Dara (cmdrdara) | 2693 comments I agree with you about Whedon. He does it because he can - not because it serves the story. Mostly.


message 44: by Michelle (new)

Michelle (deckfullojokers) | 55 comments I know that for myself, my reaction to the Red Wedding was first shock, and then gradually, a realization of all the things that led to it. It makes it an easier pill to swallow. When you can plot the character's path to their demise, it makes it a full and satisfying story.

However, that doesn't stop me from reacting completely crazy. I threw down the 5th Harry Potter book when my favorite character at the time died and didn't realize until years later that I had never actually finished the book...I had rage-quit the book. :/


message 45: by Firstname (new)

Firstname Lastname | 488 comments Trike wrote: "Brian wrote: "I loved the Red Wedding in the books and I loved it in the TV show. Martin goes where most authors in the "gritty" genre should but don't."

You should read the Deryni Chronicles by ..."


Person after my own heart.


message 46: by Colin (new)

Colin | 278 comments RIP Wash.


message 47: by Trike (new)

Trike | 7930 comments Dara wrote: "I agree with you about Whedon. He does it because he can - not because it serves the story. Mostly."

He also does it in order to instill the idea that anyone can die, so you never get comfortable and assume the characters will all be hunky-dory. I do think he does it too much, but it's a valid gambit.


message 48: by Jacob (new)

Jacob Lawrence | 60 comments After things went down on GoT it was like my campus was haunted. People were legitimately zombified as they tried to understand what had happened. I read the books years ago, so I knew it was coming, but I remember being shocked during my read through, and I can understand where they were coming from.

Personally, I like it when shows kill characters, and it has only happened once or twice when I disagreed with the decision. With GoT it should be expected, especially after season 1, but still, I think some people were ruined when it happened.


message 49: by Firstname (new)

Firstname Lastname | 488 comments Jacob wrote: "After things went down on GoT it was like my campus was haunted. People were legitimately zombified as they tried to understand what had happened. I read the books years ago, so I knew it was comin..."

It's weird to go back and read the books again when X character actually lives to Book 5 but dies in the second season of the show.

I will probably go watch some more youtube vids of people reacting to the RW. Man, were those ever funny. LOTS of rage-quitting.


message 50: by Rik (last edited Jul 27, 2013 11:53PM) (new)

Rik | 777 comments People keep saying that Whedon kills off favorite characters? Huh?

I can only think of three important, non bad guy, characters in Buffy that he killed off (someone like Jenny Calendar was not important and Angel doesn't count since his death lasted all of two or three episodes). One was Joyce but that was a great death because of how it moved the story for the remaining seasons. Next was Tara which is probably where most of the angst comes from but I have a sneaking suspicion that if she'd been hetero dating Xander no one would have cared. Lastly there was Anya but that was in the finale and doesn't really count because someone always dies in the finales of most shows.

On to Angel. They killed Doyle but that was largely forced on them because the actor's drug problems were getting in the way of the show. The actor later died in real life of a drug overdose which shows this was a real problem. No one else of note died until Cordelia unless you count Darla but she was never a regular and her death was epic and necessary. Fred sorta died though I think if there had been a seasons six (not the comic) that we would have seen Illyria become more Fredlike. Then of course the finale where Wesley dies but again if its the finale it hardly counts since someone always dies.

Firefly / Serenity - Book and Wash die in the movie / finale. Again doesn't count because as I keep saying, its a TV trope that someone dies in the finale.

Avengers - Coulsen's death has been retconned. I never had understood the love for him anyway. Oh I'll be watching Agents of Shield but I still don't get it.


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