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Memories of Ice
Group Read - Memories of Ice
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MOI - Chapter Twenty-Five & Prolugue
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David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow
(last edited May 02, 2013 06:20PM)
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The Bridgeburners get decimated save for a handful
Rake shows up with Moonspawn which he crashes into the main Keep
Moonspawn becomes the tomb of WhiskeyJack and the Bridgeburners
Paran "blesses" The dead bridgeburners
The Myhbe’s dreamworld is made real and becomes the new home of Tog and Fanderay who now occupy the two beast thrones – formally in the beast hold - and the new warren of the T’lan Ay and the Imass.
The crippled god turns out to be one of the two Jaghut children that were thrown into the rent in morn(from the prologue) – Only one soul was required to free the K’chain Che’Malle Matron and she took the brother and left the sister to seal the rent.
The K’cahin Che’malle’s essence is transferred into a Finnest which is then used to reseal the rent in Morn and free the seers sister.
The seer, free from the influence of the crippled god agrees to live in Burns warren and unveil the Jaghut Omtose Phellack which cools Burns “fever” thus slowing (but not stopping) the infection from the CG
Toc soulshifts into Anaster - the former soul having nothing left after Itkovian took all the pain. The new body even has an eye missing, just like Tog/Toc. And Toc becomes the new mortal sword for Togg - though he doesn't know whta that mean exactly.
Onos Tool is freed from the ritual and he relinquishes the title of First Sword – he looks hot –Hetan likes.
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She had denied the T’lan Imass.
Denied the T’lan Ay.
But only for a time – or so had been her intent. A brief time, in which she would work to fashion the world that awaited them....
...A world where her mother was young once more. A dreamworld, gift of K’rul. Gift of the Daru, Kruppe
Silverfox struck a deal with Hood using the T’lan as a bargaining chip. She would release the T’lan Imass to him if he preserved the Mhybe in stasis so that she would dream eternally, taking over the dreamworld from Kruppe
Warded, guarded. Your daughter spoke with Hood. Reached an agreement, yes? ...
...An agreement. Freedom for the T’lan Imass. An end. Their souls . . . delivered to Hood.
...take this dream from me. Allow it to fill your spirit. Kruppe must pass it on to you – do you understand?’
The dreamworld is seeded with the memories of the Imass that Itkovian had taken from the Imass
Itkovian freed our souls and found, in this realm you created, a place. For us.’
... The T’lan Imass have been awakened. Our memories – they live once more, in the earth beneath our feet.
And Togg and Fanderay are reunited
So the Myhbe sleeps..to dream in the same way the Burn sleeps...to dream.
‘The Mhybe now sleeps, and will sleep for ever more. She sleeps, to dream. And within her dream, Murillio, lives an entire world.’
‘Like Burn?’ Coll asked.
The Elder God smiled in answer.
‘Wait a moment!’ Murillio snapped. ‘Just how many sleeping old women are there?’
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‘Truth to tell, I’ll have to thank Picker for giving me the idea. The night I crossed paths with the Crippled God. That, and your hints about the cold.’
So Quick got "hints' from two people on how he could trap Omtose Phellack -the Jaghut Ice warren inside burn - for the fever (Burn/fever I just got it).
I had to go searching these references because I totally missed them. But they are there
Firstly the witch in his initial conversation
‘I need to think of a way to excise that infection, because I don’t think Burn’s fever will be enough. If anything, that heat that’s meant to cleanse is achieving the opposite effect.’
‘Think on it, then, dearest worker.’
‘I may need help.’
‘Now shut that door – I prefer the cold!’
As the wizard strode down the alley, his thoughts wandered loose, darted and whipped on gusts – most of the currents false and without significance. One, however, snagged in his mind and stayed with him, at first meaningless, a curiosity and nothing more: she prefers the cold. Strange. Most old people like heat and plenty of it...
and then Picker
‘Queen of Dreams,’ Picker muttered as she wrapped the leather harness around Quick Ben’s limbs. ‘I ain’t never seen you this scared, Wizard. You got me ready to piss ice-cubes.’
They were the last words of the night that Quick Ben remembered, but remember them he did.
A lot happened in this chapter because it was 72 pages long, I guess.I was sorry to see Trotts go down. He never did much but bare his teeth and look like a barbarian, and I was kind of hoping there was some more character development hiding behind that.
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David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow
(last edited May 03, 2013 02:40PM)
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And we have the resurrected Duiker, still holding onto the cloth he got from the nameless soldier from last book.
Paran invites himself into Raest's crib at the Azath house. Maybe he has a soft spot for ex insane Jaghut Tyrants.
I see Rallick Nom and Vorcan are still lying in stasis on the Azath's floor where we left them from book one.
And poor old Munug meets Paran outside the Azath house. It appears he left all those Councils he got from selling the torcs to Picker up in the hills. Probably couldn't carry them with him after the CG took his legs.
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this is High Telas, the Warren of Fire – child of Tellann—
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David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow
(last edited May 03, 2013 04:22PM)
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We get a brief history of them from WhiskeyJack this book
‘Mott Irregulars – who or what is that, Commander?’
‘Something vaguely resembling a mercenary company, Warchief. Woodcutters and farmers, for the most part. Created by accident – by us Malazans, in fact. We’d just taken the city of Oraz and were marching west to Mott – which promptly surrendered with the exception of the outlanders in Mott Wood. Dujek didn’t want a company of renegades preying on our supply lines with us pushing ever inland, so he sent the Bridgeburners into Mott Wood with the aim of hunting them down. A year and a half later and we were still there. The Irregulars were running circles around us. And the times they’d decided to stand and fight, it was as if some dark swamp god possessed them – they bloodied our noses more than once. Did the same to the Gold Moranth. Eventually, Dujek pulled us out, but by then the Mott Irregulars had been contacted by Brood. He drew them into his army. In any case,’ he shrugged, ‘they’re a deceptive bunch, keep coming back like a bad infestation of gut-worms – which we’ve learned to live with.’
They employed hit and run tactics guerilla warfare style
‘They were a handful,’ Whiskeyjack agreed, ‘though not just in a fight – they spent most of their time stealing our supplies then running away, as I recall.’
‘A talent for logistics, we called it,’ Kallor commented.
In one of their forays, the Mott irregulars acquired Fiddler's Deck of Dragons cheat table which they then donated to Caladan Brood
Caladan Brood crossed his arms, still frowning at the table. After a few moments he grunted. ‘A donation from the Mott Irregulars. It has served me well – my, uh, compliments to your sappers. I can have it returned—’
The Mott irregulars were particularly resourceful able to use their food for camouflage or ammunition
The Daru smiled and strode forward. ‘Nathi black-cakes, my dears.’
‘We recognize ‘em. The Mott Irregulars used to throw them at us when they ran out of arrows.’
‘Jaybar got one full in the face, as I recall.’
‘That he did, then he stumbled and when he came up he was like the forest floor with eyes.’
‘Dreadful sap, deadly weapon,’ Kruppe agreed, once more offering the cakes to the two marines.
They took them.
Notable Characters -
High Marshall Straw
I am High Marshal Straw, of the Mott Irregulars.’ His pale, watery eyes flicked to Gruntle. ‘Nice tattoos. I’ve got one, too.’ He rolled up a grimy sleeve, revealing a muddled, misshapen image on his dirt-smeared shoulder. ‘Not sure what happened to it, but it was supposed to be a treefrog on a stump. Of course, treefrogs are hard to see, so it might be pretty good at that – that smudge – here – I think that’s the treefrog. Could be a mushroom, though.’
High Marshall Sty - also chief dung collector
Gruntle heard a meaty thud, then the Rhivi were all shouting, racing back. The Daru turned in time to see High Marshal Sty, the front of his long shirt pulled up around a hefty pile of dung, run full tilt past, onto the ramp, then thump down the length of the barge.
I wonder if they use the dung as part of their recipe for Nathi Black cakes?
High Marshall Stump - gotta love these names
‘High Marshal Stump, sir. Mott Irregulars. About that order—’
‘What order?’ Brood snapped.
The man’s smile revealed long, white teeth. ‘Never mind. We were there, you see—’
‘Where?’
‘Uh, this side of the wall,
The Mott irregulars made it into Coral covertly ahead of the main army apparently without orders
The Mott Irregulars are here, did you know that? How in Hood’s name did they manage that? Damn if they weren’t there, inside the gate, when me and the Grey Swords showed up – and we thought we were first.’
The Bole Brothers
There are 23 brothers
‘These Bole brothers,’ Itkovian said, ‘sound to be a formidable pair.’
‘Pair?’ Straw’s tangled brows rose. ‘There’s twenty-three of ‘em.
They are highly intelligent
They hate necromancers
We don’t like necromancers, especially the Bole brothers don’t like necromancers. They had one squatting on their land, you know, holed up in some old ruined tower in the swamp. Wraiths and spectres every night. So finally the Boles had to do something about it, and they went and rousted the squatter. It was messy, believe me – anyway, they strung up what was left of him at the Low Crossroads, just as a warning to others, you see.’
They were responsible for taking out many of the enemy mages on Coral's walls
‘Uh, this side of the wall, east of the gate, sir, and there was mages up top. The Bole brothers didn’t like that, so they roughed them up some. Ain’t none breathing any more.
They are warlocks
‘Mages?’
‘Well, maybe that’s the wrong name for them. Warlocks might be better. Swamp-snuffling warlocks. With bits of bark in their hair. Get them into a forest and you won’t find them unless they want you to.
They supposedly have a sister who is the scariest and meanest of the lot
Those Bole brothers, they’re the worst of the lot, though I’ve heard that there’s a lone sister among them who you wouldn’t want to meet, ever.’
Knowing their hatred for necromancers, I like this line from Bauchelain's conversation with Gruntle
‘I have but recently received a note. Terrible penmanship, and worse, written on bark. It would seem that a certain Jib Bole and his brothers wish to pay me a visit. Are you, by any chance, knowledgeable of these good sirs? If so, perhaps some advice on the proper etiquette of hosting them ...’
Gruntle smiled. ‘Wear your best, Bauchelain.’
‘Ah. Thank you, Captain. And now, if you would ...’
I do look forward to encountering the Boles later in the series.
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The woman’s dark eyes narrowed. ‘Tell me, my dear, what – if anything – do you know of the Master of the Deck?’
Rake’s brows rose. ‘Ganoes Paran? The mortal who walked within Dragnipur? The one who sent the two Hounds of Shadow into Kurlad Galain’s gate?’
Envy stamped her foot. ‘You are insufferable!’
And Envy appears to have had daddy issues. She stood by and watched Rake take her father Draconus with Dragnipur
In case you’ve forgotten, we worked damned hard to slay him the first time!’
...‘I don’t recall you doing much,’ Anomander Rake was saying, ‘at the time. You stood by and watched the battle—’
‘Precisely! And what do you think my father thought of that?’
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The crippled god? I think you mean the seer?
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Oh and now Quick Ben is a High Mage. No more "hiding" apparently.
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I am curious about how they got to the city before even the super speedy contingent of Reach.
Paran blesses the Bridgeburners and then there is a strange glow. Interesting. And I love the friendship that he and Quick Ben have going on - wonderful trust and companionship. These relationships stand against the brutality of existence And the Tiste Andii finally take root in the mortal world after thousands of years of distance and wandering. The city is imbued with their warren, the first time they've embraced their home of Kurald after leaving it all behind when they left to come here
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Yes. Just testing.
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Raest has a sense of humor! It's so funny how Marillo and Vorcas are still on the floor!Tool's gonna get some after thousands of years! I love the description and his soft brown eyes. I'm hoping Toc realizes who that was.
I had no idea that was Tool until they specifically said it was - think Hetan may have met her match. Maybe. Kind of sad that Tool isn't the same anymore, I'll miss him. I'm wondering about WJ and the bridgeburners (and the 2 marines, whoever they are) - at one point someone said that nobody understands just what Moon's Spawn can do (not even Rake understands completely), plus the glow after blessing - and the fact that QB left a stone so he could return later with Kalam - maybe someday we might see some of them again in some capacity?
Interesting that Draconus is Envy's father, and she and Rake put him in his own sword - and if the sword is broken, apparently Rake could die - and Draconus is influencing Paran to break the sword.
Mott Irregulars are redneck mages - love it :) Really hope we see a lot more of them in future.
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Raest has a sense of humor! It's so funny how Marillo and Vorcas are still on the floor!Tool's gonna get some after thousands of years! I love the description and his soft brown eyes. I'm hoping ..."
And when Hetan guesses "you've not bedded a woman in a long time," all his explanation is "indeed." One thing hasn't changed, he still doesn't waste words. I noticed that he introduces himself as Onos Toolan, with no apostrophe (no glottal stop?) - I wonder if that's significant.
About Lady Envy, I wonder where she's been since the chaining, and what brings her back now, and what Draconus will do about her if he gets loose. Anomander Rake is AWESOME in their conversation.
Mod
Y'all have covered most of it already. I am beginning to enjoy the Paran/Raest moments, that Tyrant has a bit of a dry humour going on. His words just have so much impact, its like when he speaks you have to listen.
'Yes – you don't know the meaning of insane?'
'I know it all too well, Ganoes Paran, Master of the Deck.'
followed by this line dropping gem...
'A temple everyone in the city calls haunted.'
'I imagine,' Raest said, turning away, 'it came cheap, all things considered . . .'
I loved how this finished, with a segue into the next book;
Paran smiled. He stepped away from the beggar, then paused and added, 'By the way, you probably shouldn't linger overlong at this particular gate. The House does not welcome strangers.'
The old man seemed to shrink in on himself. His head twisted to one side. 'No,' he muttered from beneath his ragged hood, 'not this House.' Then he softly cackled. 'But I know one that does ...'
Mod
That's a good pickup. I dug a bit and from chapter one
Toc searched his memory for the name of this undead warrior. ‘Onos T’oolan,’ he said, pleased with himself. ‘Of the Tarad Clan—’
‘I am now named Tool. Clanless. Free.’
So if we take "Tool" to mean "Free" then Onos Toolan would translate "Clanless Free-flint"
And after Tool finishes telling Toc what his name means we get
‘Tool, I see no flaws in you.’
He still refers to himself by his old name to identify himself to those who know that name. But there is no need to use it to introduce himself otherwise. In any case there is enough to suggest the dropped apostrophe is intentional and it fits well with his discarding of the title of First Sword; and with his shedding of the Tellan ritual he is truly no longer "flawed"
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Lee, High Priest of Shadow
(last edited May 05, 2013 06:26PM)
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So here is my theory.
They are symbolic. They represent the unnamed other Bridgeburners that Erikson is paying respect to. He couldn't name them all, but they all played a huge part in this story. Think about how they are interned at the end. Next to WJ, three coffins identical, you cannot tell who is who, the great WJ and two unnamed marines. It isn't Hedge or Trotts up there with him, but all the Bridgeburners. I think this symbol is for Erikson himself. The end of his beloved Bridgeburners and all that they represented.
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Just where did Tayschrenn send Kallor to?
A second wave rolled towards the man, coruscating with sunfire—
The warren that opened around Kallor was a miasmic stain, a sickly tear – that swept around him—
—to vanish, taking Kallor with it.
The golden sorcery flickered, dissipated.
Mod
Well he was using High Telas - so I'm assuming that's where he's sent. The "sickly" look of it could be a result of the poisoning? I guess we'll have to wait and see where Kallor pops up next to know for sure.
And no Lee - I am not working very hard today obviously :) - It's too quiet.
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cough, cough, splutter - Oh oh, me too. At least I wish I was. Up till Friday I was mistakenly under the impression that today was the Labour Day public holiday. Some bright Liberal party cookie decided to change it to October.
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I am going to start on chapter one of house of chains. I re-read my review and was please to see I started it with:
Without doubt my favourite in the series so far.
David Sven wrote: "Silvio wrote: " I noticed that he introduces himself as Onos Toolan, with no apostrophe (no glottal stop?) - I wonder if that's significant."That's a good pickup. I dug a bit and from chapter one..."
Hmmm. You're interpreting "Tool" as Imass for "free," right? I'm reluctant to think it's an Imass word because Lorn gave the nickname to him. In MOI 1 I assumed that he was not translating it but pointing out that his new name came along with his new identity as an unbound Imass. We already knew he feels that way: "I accept that name. All of my history is dead. Existence begins anew, and with it shall be a new name. It is suitable." (GotM 9)
Lee wrote: "I have been thinking about the two marines killed by Kallor. I think there is a reason that we were not given their names. Erikson is not shy about naming characters, guards at command tent entranc..."
Are the two marines Bridgeburners? Depending on what you mean by symbolic, I might agree with you. They sound like they are meant to be representatives either of the Bridgeburners or the dead more generally. At any rate, having some unknown soldier sort of figures fits with Duiker's opinion in DG about it being better to remember the names of the survivors and leave the fallen nameless.
Mod
That's a valid point. I'd forgotten that.
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I had assumed they were, as I remember so part where they were updating their commander, which I was sure was WJ, on the status. He ordered them to stick with Silverfox.
But I guess that part is irrelevant, whether they represent the Bridgeburners or all personel lost in this war. Unnamed soldiers fallen have been a part of military history and I think Erikson aimed to show that.
Good point with the Duiker reference, I had forgotten about that.
Yes, Moon's Spawn has unknown power. Just before Paran leaves it, he gives the Bridgeburners, all of them, his blessing, and as we learned with the Grey Swords, Ganoes should not lightly toss around his blessings.But let me take you back to Deadhouse Gates, near the beginning, when Fiddler encounters the Tanos Spiritwalker who wants to thank him for saving the girl from rape. The spiritwalker suggests that he might like to sing a song for the Bridgeburners:
"The sapper wondered what such a creation would do to the Bridgeburners.
The Tanos Spiritwalker seemed to understand the question, for he smiled. 'Such a song has never before been attempted. There is in a Tanos song the potential for ascendancy, but can an entire regiment ascend? Truly a question deserving an answer.'"
Fiddler demurs that he doesn't have the time, and the Spiritwalker says that he would only need a second, and could learn everything just by touching Fid. Fid declines, because he doesn't want to expose his entire soul to the spiritwalker.
After some more conversation Fid gets up to leave. "'Captain Turqua will see you out.' He stepped closer and laid a hand on Fiddler's shoulder. "Kimloc Spiritwalker thanks you."
Later in the book, it becomes an issue again (I forget exactly why) and Fid can't remember whether the spiritwalker touched him or not.
All these things are lining up very nicely. And while Erikson doesn't have a problem killing off major players, he does seem to have a hard time making them stay dead.
My favorite thing in this chapter, and maybe in the whole book, is the encounter between Gruntle and Toc/Anaster. Toc has been looking forward to meeting Gruntle because he wants to get the lowdown on what it means to be a mortal sword. Gruntle's answer: You got me. Why don't we get drunk? This from the guy who somehow knew how to change his entire crew into a bigass magical tiger, and he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. (Similar to Paran, who constantly has to be goaded and taught by Ben on how to use his pretty astonishing powers.)
Mod
I think it was when they were out side the Azath house trying to get in and Fid brings out the conch shell and uses it. The song flattens then and drives off the Soletaken and D'ivers. At least I think that is what happened. ;)
Funny that we can't remember even on our second read!Yes yes these are things I definitely missed the first time - the touch of the Spiritwalker, the blessing of Paran, the flickering light after the blessing - but really laid out in open.
I LOVED that scene with Toc and Gruntle! These new players in the game, along with Paran, are kind of making it up as they go along, and this new blood will bring much needed life to the old guard of gods, ascendants, Elders, etc. Because the old really didn't do great by themselves, did they.
Your thoughts on the 2 marines are spot on, they are the only nameless ones in a cast of thousands and it's very obvious. I noted it but didn't give it thought like you guys did, and I like it very much. I definitely thought of them as Bridgeburners.
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As you do. Easily done. Happens to me often.
That's why I always keep my conchs in a separate room from my cussers.
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Funny that we can't remember even on our second read!Yes yes these are things I definitely missed the first time - the touch of the Spiritwalker, the blessing of Paran, the flickering light after..."
It seems to me like the gods have probably been making it up as they go along more than they care to admit, and without the benefit of Paran or Gruntle's healthy humility.
The bit that got me in this chapter was the Itkovian burial! So touching!
It keeps surprising me how all this series' blood, sweat, and tears will suddenly let through a little interlude of sentiment. The redemption of the Pannion Seer was an example I expected even less.
Mod
Did the finishing of ritual did something to Imass, because tool seems to have changed, he was part flesh and bone when we last saw him after the fight with selugh but now he has proper hair and eyes.
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— then releasing it, to fall to the ground at his feet.
She frowned down at the weapon, wondering at the significance of the gesture – from the warrior who was called the First Sword.
Slowly, as comprehension filled her, her eyes widened.
What, after all, I was fashioned to do .
So throwing down his sword was symbolic of Tool giving up his title as First Sword - and Silverfox was fashioned to end the ritual of Tellan.
It's not directly stated but it is implied that Tool asked Silverfox to release him from the ritual. And then we next see him as flesh and blood.
Just finishedLoved it.
I'm not sure whether to go on to the house of chains or re read the first three to see what I missed??
At the end we have and old man who has a bad cough talking about a house that takes strangers...
As the crippled god is chained and the only person I can think of that has a cough, who is this.
my memory is so bad
Duiker turns up in the end
I thought the idea was to protect his soul and re plant it somewhere else
They didn't do this then??
Left the poor sod in a magled body is that right?
Just goes to show how well toc came out of his ordeal in the end!!
Mod
As the crippled god is chained and the only person I can think of that has a cough, who is this."
This was Munug - he's the guy who gave the torcs to Picker? The crippled god rewarded him for painting some cards for him by healed his tumors - but then left him unable to walk. The coughing is the CG laughing through him - I think. The House is the new House of Chains.
Deano wrote: "Duiker turns up in the end
I thought the idea was to protect his soul and re plant it somewhere else
They didn't do this then??"
I'm hazy on the details, but I believe they were able to save his original body. I think the last time we see Duiker is when he's being crucified and then loses consciousness - at the end Stormy Gesler and Truth are looking for his body but don't find it.
Yes your right about Duiker, was on the cross and taken as he has the charm around his neck. But I hadn't picked up that the begger who is outside the house at the end can't walk.
I remember the crippled god screwing him over though.
Mod
I think you'll get a lot more out of a reread after finishing the whole series.
Ok I'll crack on with the nextI'm just worried I'll forget what happened in the first books by the time I get to the end.
Mod
N'aruhl's Commentary on Ormulogun's
Slaying of Whiskeyjack