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Philip K. Dick
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Packi
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Mar 10, 2015 03:17PM

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Brian wrote: "I just finished Dr. Bloodmoney. I'm not usually a fan of post apocalyptic stories, but this was pretty good. If you've read about PKD, you know he has this fascination with the "phant..."
I really enjoyed this one
I really enjoyed this one


I'd probably have to go with Stanislaw Lem's Eden. That one was way out there. I've always really clicked with PKD especially when he was doing mind-f books like Ubik.
However, A Maze of Death, I think, is one step farther to the weird side than Ubik. IIRC it was less strange right off the bat, but the farther you get into the story, the more the universe just keeps unraveling.
Which, to me, is a good thing!

When people ask me what t..."
I kept on thinking maybe it would make more sense if I'd had some LSD. Or maybe Dick had been under the influence while writing it.

Anyway...I thought it was all pretty much explained in the end. PKD's stories often times can be summed up as a question and an answer:
Q: What is reality?
A: You're WRONG!

When people..."
As far as I know, Dick didn't use LSD. During this period I think he was still using amphetamines to write. He'd let a book stew in his mind for a number of months until he was ready to sit down and write it and then he'd go almost non-stop until it was finished.
I've been meaning to re-read The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch because it was the book he said scared him the most on rereading it.

IIRC there were no dirty pictures in PKD's books...so I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion!


At least he's finally getting some notice for his Steampunk novels.

Dr. Adder is definitely worth reading. I had really big issues with it and ended up giving it only 2 stars, but it is a seminal, fascinating work with a lot of style and ambition.
Time to throw my hat in the ring(or put my head on the block).I'm not PKDs biggest fan - here's my perspective.
In my early days a friend got me to read Dick as he thought he was the best ever and that UBIK was his masterpiece. So I read all the novels with 2 major omissions. One was 'man in the high castle' since I stay away from any kind of alternate history, the other I'll come back to.
Well, a lot of it made zero impact eg zap gun,clans of alphane moon,galactic pot healer - all forgotten as soon as put down.
So what about those that did make an impression for good or bad - I'll start at the bottom.
'3 Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch' - according to wikepedia PKD was not on drugs for this one,well you could fool me,once chew Z is taken the novel goes completely off the rails an never returns.
'Maze of death' - PKD was never very good at endings and this is the lowpoint.
'Dies Irae' - I love Zelazny,this is the only thing with his name on it that I will never reread.
'Flow my tears___' - This is good,only spoilt by an ending with more holes than a swiss cheese.I wonder if my main problem with Dick is that I want things(at the end) to make sense but maybe the journey should be more important than the destination.
'Scanner darkly' - This is very good,not really SF and not typical.Have to disagree with the poster who thought this was a good 'intro' into PKD.
'UBIK' - My friend was right! I don't understand some of the above comments at all.This is the classic PKD novel,all the themes you come to expect and pulled together to a very satisfactory conclusion.
Now the one that got away,I somehow didn't read 'Do androids___' so after a gap of well over 30 years I gave it a go.If you weren't told the author you'd know within 20 pages,brought back a lot of memories.Not bad(but another poor ending - just flat)
Finally(tears of relief from those who've stayed with me)there have been some very curious comments re film adaptations. PKD had some great ideas,in fact I'll concede he had a lot of great ideas.Some skilled directors have taken those ideas and made some good movies(I still prefer the original release of Blade Runner - minority view I know)but they haven't adapted the novels,were not talking 'Watchmen' here.
Anyone liking 'Minority Report' etc and thinking 'I'll read some PKD' well that's like watching '8 mile' and humming along to 'Lose yourself'(great song) and deciding to give some of Eminem's early albums a go - you're in for one hell of a shock.
In my early days a friend got me to read Dick as he thought he was the best ever and that UBIK was his masterpiece. So I read all the novels with 2 major omissions. One was 'man in the high castle' since I stay away from any kind of alternate history, the other I'll come back to.
Well, a lot of it made zero impact eg zap gun,clans of alphane moon,galactic pot healer - all forgotten as soon as put down.
So what about those that did make an impression for good or bad - I'll start at the bottom.
'3 Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch' - according to wikepedia PKD was not on drugs for this one,well you could fool me,once chew Z is taken the novel goes completely off the rails an never returns.
'Maze of death' - PKD was never very good at endings and this is the lowpoint.
'Dies Irae' - I love Zelazny,this is the only thing with his name on it that I will never reread.
'Flow my tears___' - This is good,only spoilt by an ending with more holes than a swiss cheese.I wonder if my main problem with Dick is that I want things(at the end) to make sense but maybe the journey should be more important than the destination.
'Scanner darkly' - This is very good,not really SF and not typical.Have to disagree with the poster who thought this was a good 'intro' into PKD.
'UBIK' - My friend was right! I don't understand some of the above comments at all.This is the classic PKD novel,all the themes you come to expect and pulled together to a very satisfactory conclusion.
Now the one that got away,I somehow didn't read 'Do androids___' so after a gap of well over 30 years I gave it a go.If you weren't told the author you'd know within 20 pages,brought back a lot of memories.Not bad(but another poor ending - just flat)
Finally(tears of relief from those who've stayed with me)there have been some very curious comments re film adaptations. PKD had some great ideas,in fact I'll concede he had a lot of great ideas.Some skilled directors have taken those ideas and made some good movies(I still prefer the original release of Blade Runner - minority view I know)but they haven't adapted the novels,were not talking 'Watchmen' here.
Anyone liking 'Minority Report' etc and thinking 'I'll read some PKD' well that's like watching '8 mile' and humming along to 'Lose yourself'(great song) and deciding to give some of Eminem's early albums a go - you're in for one hell of a shock.

I can appreciate how someone would have issues with his work when they approach it from an incompatible set of expectations. I would never recommend him to someone who demands the plot be all tied up in a neat bow at the end, nor to someone who expects all authors to be lucid and logical. Which is not to say that your expectations are invalid, of course. They just don't fit what PKD was largely about.
(In musical terms it would be kind of like someone listening to free form jazz when they are used to hearing indie rock. You can't appreciate both kinds of music without learning to listen with a different ear. Some people like one but not the other style, some can listen to both and like them both because they've learned to hear both. No one's right or wrong really.)
PKD's writing style was very stream of conscious, partly because he was often binge writing while using amphetamines, but mostly because he was writing as quickly as possible to get the tiny amounts of cash they paid for his manuscripts: the dude was impoverished most of his life.
The thing about PKD that I really love, the way I read him, is more about:
Bill wrote: "...PKD had some great ideas,in fact I'll concede he had a lot of great ideas..."
He packed more ideas per page than anyone else I've ever read. And his ideas were startlingly new and unpredictable.
In short, I think he had a unique, unconventional, and highly imaginative mind. The buzz I get from reading him comes not from the "journey" of his characters reacting to the plot, but rather from me watching how the author's mind worked as he navigated the strange corridors of his own thought processes. You can feel his restlessness, his self-questioning; you can see his mind shifting through "what if" scenarios, going with one, and then pulling the rug out from under himself only to have to start all over again.
Actually, that's why I loved A Maze of Death. Throughout the entire book you're right there with the author working through "Oh, this is what's really going on!" scenarios, and each time you think you've finally hit on the real reality, something comes up that knocks your theory down. In the end the book gets tied up in a neat bundle...only PKD then pulls the rug out from under you again, leaving "What is the real reality?" hanging out there as a huge question mark.
Paranoid? Yes. Psychotic? Sometimes, certainly. Literary? No, not really. But what he lacked in polish and nuance, he made up for in raw creative brilliance. I've never read any other author who I feel as if I'm peering into their mind while reading their books--actually watching thought processes. These are portraits of a mind, and in some cases portraits of a time and place (A Scanner Darkly being the height of that).
So, yeah, I can understand why some people won't connect with his work, coming from a certain perspective. But from a different perspective, I think his accomplishments were unparalleled.

LOL...Full disclosure: I'm not really a fan of Zelazny. I read all his Amber works and found them pretty sloppy and haphazard. The last time I read Deus Irae I remember recognizing Zelazny's influence in it and thinking "Hmm, Zelazny kind of spoiled the vibe."
So...to each their own, I suppose!
Micah wrote: "Bill wrote: "...I wonder if my main problem with Dick is that I want things(at the end) to make sense but maybe the journey should be more important than the destination..."
I can appreciate how s..."
You put your case very well, your later post re 'Dies Irae' I could have written word for word(with Zelazny and Dick interchanged of course!)
I can appreciate how s..."
You put your case very well, your later post re 'Dies Irae' I could have written word for word(with Zelazny and Dick interchanged of course!)

Behold one of the dangers of collaboration: pissing off fans of both authors! ;D


Well there are even a lot of jazz fans who can't get into Free Jazz.
I was going to say it was like having an indie rock fan listen to Morton Subotnick for the first time...but figured most people wouldn't pick up the reference without doing a browser search. Subotnick is the one who taught me that there are different ways of listening to music and that if you don't have the right frame of mind, there's no way you can connect with certain musical forms. It's not quite as difficult in writing, but it can be similar.
[P.S. the way I learned to like jazz--which is in no way the mainstay of my musical taste--was first learning to love swing music, then following the progression of jazz and the historical changes that brought about forms like be bop and free jazz and jazz fusion. Understanding context and continuity really helps. Seeing jazz live in smoky clubs also helps!]
Bill wrote: "Time to throw my hat in the ring(or put my head on the block).I'm not PKDs biggest fan - ..."
burn the heretic!
burn the heretic!
Micah wrote: "LOL...Full disclosure: I'm not really a fan of Zelazny. I read all his Amber work..."
burn this heretic too!
burn this heretic too!
mark wrote: "Bill wrote: "Time to throw my hat in the ring(or put my head on the block).I'm not PKDs biggest fan - ..."
burn the heretic!"
but seriously...
I have to wonder if your antipathy towards him is because you read so many of his books in a row. that would fatigue me. I adore him, but I've often had years of time pass in between novels. and when I pick one up, it feels so fresh and original.
I do appreciate the time you spent explaining your distaste for PKD, god among men.
burn the heretic!"
but seriously...
I have to wonder if your antipathy towards him is because you read so many of his books in a row. that would fatigue me. I adore him, but I've often had years of time pass in between novels. and when I pick one up, it feels so fresh and original.
I do appreciate the time you spent explaining your distaste for PKD, god among men.
Micah wrote: "Actually, that's why I loved A Maze of Death. Throughout the entire book you're right there with the author working through "Oh, this is what's really going on!" scenarios, and each time you think you've finally hit on the real reality, something comes up that knocks your theory down. In the end the book gets tied up in a neat bundle...only PKD then pulls the rug out from under you again, leaving "What is the real reality?" hanging out there as a huge question mark..."
perfect summary of why I love this book so much.
perfect summary of why I love this book so much.


Well there are even a lot of jazz fans who can't get into Free Jazz.
I was g..."
In a Jazz Appreciation course, I described Free Jazz as sounding like a middle school band warming up.

Which definitely takes a trained ear to appreciate. ;D

Is it possible to read PKD without total concentration? I usually listen to books on audio while doing other stuff or falling asleep...

In particular, I think Man In The High Castle would suffer a lot from that method of reading. I see Castle as one of Dick's most subtle and dense books. The first time I read it in my late teens, I didn't like it much because I missed all the nuances. Reading it as an adult, it became one of my all time favorite books. It has a lot of layers. In particular, the novel within a novel is extremely well handled, with the main text of Castle being the alternate history and Grasshopper being about what actually happened in our real world imbedded in that alternate history. Then there's the fact he actually used the I Ching to make plot choices. And if you have a background in Dick's autobiographical history, you know which things came from his life. There are other levels to appreciate too. I think without a close reading you would miss a lot of what makes this novel great. I think any of his novels would suffer in this way too, but TMITHC more than others.
And frankly, most of my favorite novels you'd completely miss the boat experiencing them this way. I like becoming completely immersed in a writer's writing style, which I don't think would happen listening to an audio book' while doing something else. I need the words in front of me to do that. I like to be carried away by the characters and world building in a novel. I can't imagine enjoying a book much beyond something straightforward and stylistically simple like Michael Crichton with that reading method, any subtleties of plot and style would be lost. And don't get me wrong, I like a good Crichton novel now and again, but I read him for quite different reasons than I do someone like Philip K. Dick or Samuel R. Delany.

burn the heretic!"
but seriously...
I have to wonder if your antipathy tow..."
The only good reason I can think of to read a lot of PKD books in a row is the reason I did it. I was teaching myself to write novels and wanted to pull apart what he was doing. I read 25 or 30 in a row and the good ones matched against the bad ones taught me more about writing novels than anything else I've ever done in my life. Otherwise, I think reading more than two or three in a row could really mess up your brain.


Thanks for the reply David, I'll save PKD for later then :)
I do tend to have fairly short attention span and generally prefer pretty straight forward entertaining reads, but until I finish this thesis I'm working on and have time for some serious leisure reading, there's no reason to wear down and ruin my interest in PKD.
David wrote: "mark wrote: "mark wrote: "Bill wrote: "Time to throw my hat in the ring(or put my head on the block).I'm not PKDs biggest fan - ..."
burn the heretic!"
but seriously...
I have to wonder if your ..."
Just to clarify, it wasn't all in a row - just a lot in a relatively short space of time,mixed in with Zelazny,Silverberg,and a lot of British 'new wave'.
Now that reminds me (off topic I know) why has no one mentioned J.G Ballard in either the loved or hated threads - maybe many don't consider it sci fi - concrete island anyone?
burn the heretic!"
but seriously...
I have to wonder if your ..."
Just to clarify, it wasn't all in a row - just a lot in a relatively short space of time,mixed in with Zelazny,Silverberg,and a lot of British 'new wave'.
Now that reminds me (off topic I know) why has no one mentioned J.G Ballard in either the loved or hated threads - maybe many don't consider it sci fi - concrete island anyone?

Videos...
Jonathan Lethem and Kim Stanley Robinson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcaQm...
Professor Richard Doyle on Valis (a bit noisy, but some interesting insights): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UEm2...
Resources...
A list of papers written about PKD including some full text versions (from some big names like Stanislaw Lem and others): http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/philip_k.htm




David wrote: "I finally gave up on reading the review because the page kept jumping back to the top after I scrolled. What I managed to read interested me. I definitely have to watch the full series. I watched p..."
that happens all the time on my droid. pretty much means I only end up reading articles on my laptop.
I'm looking forward to reading the review after watching a few episodes. so far it looks like it could be a compelling series. although very different from the source material.
that happens all the time on my droid. pretty much means I only end up reading articles on my laptop.
I'm looking forward to reading the review after watching a few episodes. so far it looks like it could be a compelling series. although very different from the source material.

David - sorry about that. Interestingly, it works fine with Safari on my Macbook, which shouldn't be all that different than an iPad.

r/Steve

It's an Amazon series, not Netflix.

Well, that's one comment! :-) It's probably the only book on alternative history I've read, unless you count Hogan's The Proteus Operation (more time travel and many worlds of quantum mechanics than alternative history). I just heard about the series and wondered about details.
r/Steve

The TV show changed a lot of things but most people don't mind all that. Me? I'm a purist about these things. They've gotten rid of some plot points, combined others, and added whole new ones. None of which I was all that happy about but they did still managed to maintain a PKDian feel to the world, and most of those changes didn't fundamentally mess with the overall plot (as far as I could tell from that first episode).
However, I think they did ruin the best part of the book by changing The Grasshopper Lies Heavy from a banned book to a highly illegal Newsreel.
In so doing they stripped away the possibility of questioning whether The Grasshopper Lies Heavy is just a work of fiction, or an actual alternate history.
When it's seen as a book, it can easily be passed off as a work of fiction. In PKD's novel, it was widely read in California even though it was technically banned. It's only as the novel goes on that you start to wonder if PKD's pulling one of his classic "what is reality" tricks on you. Which reality is the real one, which is the alternate?
A newsreel, however, is a totally different thing. It's images are of actual events. The ambiguity dissolves and what you're left with is "how is that possible" and "what does it mean?" But the whole "is it a fiction or is it a fictionalized account of real events" is no longer possible.
The production values, OTOH, of the TV show were very good. It's actually darker and more brooding than the original novel.
So...without knowing your tastes, I can't say whether you'd like it or not. It's certainly worth a look at least (if you can manage to see it).
Steven wrote: "Any info on the Netflicks serial based on Man in a High Castle? I'm interested in knowing how much they changed it. Most of the movies have been close to the original sci-fi novellas or short stori..."
We shall have to agree to differ - apart from the basic idea,most of the movies bear little resemblance to the stories(which is why they've been successful!)
We shall have to agree to differ - apart from the basic idea,most of the movies bear little resemblance to the stories(which is why they've been successful!)
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