City of Lost Souls
discussion
Jace and Clary's relationship... do they really love each other?
Candace wrote: "Olivia wrote: "So being the massive fan that I am, I can't help but want to spread the word around and practically force people to read it. In the process of doing so, I got my friends to read it a..."Haha, same here about them sharing honest love. And, you must finish the series as soon as you possibly can! Although I must say that after City of Glass ( my favorite of the five so far ), everything is just... well I don't want to spoil anything, so never mind ;D
I'm always skeptical when authors tell me that teenagers are in honest-to-goodness-forever-and-ever love. We meet so many people in our lives that finding that one person that we can be with forever when we're so young seems like really high odds.Then again, my aunt and uncle married at 18 and 17, respectively, and just celebrated 50 years together, so what do I know? :-)
So, to answer the question, sure, why not?
I think, at first, Jace had the lust thing going on and Clary didn't really like him because he was being so obnoxious. But after they got to know each other, I think they really do love each other. Why else would Jace risk his life for her. So yes, definitely love
Olivia wrote: "Candace wrote: "Olivia wrote: "So being the massive fan that I am, I can't help but want to spread the word around and practically force people to read it. In the process of doing so, I got my frie..."Lol! It's ok, I actually don't mind spoiling too much, it helps me understand lol :) But I'm halfway through the first, so I kinda know some things that's going to happen, but I'll get there lol :) (I still am seeing the true love, not just lust <3)
you question their love?!?!! :'(
~Molly~{✧Thefallenangel✧}~ wrote: "you question their love?!?!! :'("I personally don't really question their love, but if my friend questioned it, I thought, then maybe other people do too. So, I decided to see what other people thought about her opinion. :)
I was being dramatic Lol, I understand where you're coming from, :)
~Molly~{✧Thefallenangel✧}~ wrote: "I was being dramatic Lol, I understand where you're coming from, :)"hahaha, Aprils Fools ;D I saw on your profile that you liked the Hunger Games. Did you hear the Catching Fire was being moved to 2014?!?
Of course they love each other! I mean, i understand why your friend would feel that way and her points are valid, but y'know, for half of the series their love was "forbidden" and there's not much time to have romantic montages when you're running away from death. And yes, Magnus is pretty freaking awesome :)
I think that you can tell that they are in love by the things they are willing to do for each other. They would both die for one another. If you would willingly give your life for another person's, then you would have to contain love in your heart to be able to care for them enough to do that. Also, try to remember the fact that they are in the process of saving the world. They are under a lot of pressure and stress. When they get a second to themselves, all of their love just kind of erupts into that one moment and they begin to kiss. Then, after City of Glass, I remember a scene in which (view spoiler)
I personally do think they love each other. I dont really believe in love, but its a book, i'll make an exception :) Yeah they kiss a lot but you cant blame them; her brothers out to kill them all, gotta make the most of the time they have. They have only known each other for a littlw while but with everything that's happened, they might as well have known each other for years now. Clary could have had sex with the Jace that was not her Jace but she waited, waited for him to be himself again. She risked everything, going into the apartment and left everything behind to get Jace back. If thats not love, what is?
Psshhh! What you going on about, girl? Of COURSE they <3 eachother :) lol :)
@OliviaYour friends do not like the series. That is why they probably make the mistake in recognising the love which is so obvious between Jace and Clary. And No, they didn't always go for the sex. When Jace knew Clary, he was all about her, but he didn't kiss her right away, even though he knew that Clary liked him so much too. Jace wanted to know Clary better.
Simon might have wanted to always kiss Clary , if Clary gave her a go. But she did not consider Simon more than a very dear friend. Once he thought that Clary was not saying No, Simon went on kissing her even though he knew that Clary's heart has always been Jace.
They are teenagers. They want to explore each other bodies, based on their passionate love, romantic feeling and hormones.
Olivia wrote: "~Molly~{✧Thefallenangel✧}~ wrote: "I was being dramatic Lol, I understand where you're coming from, :)"hahaha, Aprils Fools ;D I saw on your profile that you liked the Hunger Games. Did you hear ..."
Why do you do this?? JK I saw your prank posts on the other topics Lol
They don't love each other. That is pure lust. By realistic Standards. Inside this crazy universe Clare created this is apparently love. But by real-life Standards, they clearly don't. Love develops it doesn't just spring out of nowhere as it supposedly did with Jace. Also Clary never mentions anything about Jace than his Looks when she describes him. She is also totally obsessed with him, only thinks about him, everybody else Comes second, and she clearly doesn't care what he wants. Not when it clashes with her wishes. Also Jace never seems to think about anything else but sex and control either. They clearly are not even in love, they are just obsessed with each other.And yes I read all the books. So as for Jace not wanting to kiss Clary at first: People, the whole first book was Happening over the span of 1-2 weeks, he wanted into her pants pretty quickly, remember the night scene in the green? That was only days after meeting each other.
Olivia wrote: "Candace wrote: "Olivia wrote: "So being the massive fan that I am, I can't help but want to spread the word around and practically force people to read it. In the process of doing so, I got my frie..."Haha! So yeah, after City of Glass definitely true love! After everything(ehem) the "lust" is definitely gone. And it's shown that it's love through actions. Them both giving their lives for each other and then afterward when he had the chance to move on and he couldn't.... how can anyone say it's not real? And btw, of course he wanted in her pants at first...duhhhhh :P it's a natural thing! Which he immediately tried to keep from thinking or wanting the day he figured out they were "siblings" But ya know..... YAY lol :P
They have been through so much together and through every book, They have shown just how much they love each other and what they are willing to endure/ go through for one another. CoB: Jace is instantly drawn to Clary. He likes her personality and looks and her fierce willingness to protect those that she loves. He follows her to save Simon from Dumort. At Magnus's he tries to comfort her when she realizes that her mom has lied to her for 16 yrs. Jace confesses that when they were fighting the greater demon in the building that Clary lives, he thought first, not of his parabatai Alec, but of CLARY first and foremost. When Valentine is about to swing the sword at Clary, Jace throws himself in front of it.
CoA: Jace can't ignore the feelings that he has for Clary! He knows that its wrong but can't help it. Its not LUST its love. Clary keeps trying to deny her love and it backfires. Even the thick-headed Simon figures out that Clary will never stop loving Jace. On the boat, Jace faces his greatest fear, seeing Clary, the girl THAT HE LOVES, die.
CoG: Jace confesses that he loves Clary and will never stop loving her (nighttime in her bedroom in Alicante). Clary wants to commit suicide to join Jace when she sees him die, but then risks everything by asking Raziel to bring him back to life.
CoFA: They talk about what it would be like to get married. Jace tries to stay away from Clary so that he wont hurt her like he does in the dreams. His love is so strong that he doesn't succumb to seeing her again until they run into each other at the club. Jace, possessed, pulls a knife on Clary and takes her to Lilith and they get stuck in this huge dark magic ceremony. Clary loves Jace so much that she instantly forgives him. Jace, so in love, finds it hard to forgive himself for what he has done while possessed.
CoLS: Clary is heartbroken and distraught and looks like crap when Jace goes missing. She feels empty and so upset. She risks everything and goes against the Clave law to find Jace even though it means having to be with her enemy Sebastian. Even though Jace is possessed and not himself, he still has strong feelings about Clary that dark magic cant alter or rid of.
These are events that just came off the top of my head and I read this series July '12. If i can remember all of this LOVE between them from this far back, Im quite sure that they are actually, and truly in love.
Interesting that for CoLS you didn't mention one bit that Sebastian has incestuous feelings for Clary and so possessed Jace's feelings could be Sebastian's. And also you do not mention that Clary completely ignores Jace's wish to hand himself over to the Clave.
Rachel wrote: "They have been through so much together and through every book, They have shown just how much they love each other and what they are willing to endure/ go through for one another. CoB: Jace is ins..."
HECK YEAH. I second that! :)
Andre wrote: "They don't love each other. That is pure lust. By realistic Standards. Inside this crazy universe Clare created this is apparently love. But by real-life Standards, they clearly don't. Love develop..."Guess what? In REAL LIFE, my mom first saw my dad and knew instantly that he was the one for her. Sometimes when souls meet they fall instantly in love. Stories are meant to be about extraordinary things that happen, about things that don't always happen everyday to normal people. If authors wrote about every day things that happen, books wouldn't be interesting. That doesn't mean they're not possible.
I get where your friend is coming from.They're both around 16, in our modern world. They are both teenagers who are hormonal, and most of the time they just seem to want to make out. But you have to remember that these two have endured much more than regular teenagers. They have been prevented from being together for awhile now, so I guess they take any chance they have to kiss, and such.
These two would also give (view spoiler)
I don't think they would have the ability to do that if their relationship was just based on lust.
Andre wrote: "Interesting that for CoLS you didn't mention one bit that Sebastian has incestuous feelings for Clary and so possessed Jace's feelings could be Sebastian's. And also you do not mention that Clary c..."I took a look at how long my comment was and said "time to wrap it up!" good point tho, those two points are very important things that show just how much Jace and Clary love each other.
Andre wrote: "They don't love each other. That is pure lust. By realistic Standards. Inside this crazy universe Clare created this is apparently love. But by real-life Standards, they clearly don't. Love develop..."Ah! you're hurting my eyes! how can you say that! Of course they love one another. I know that you read, or at least skimmed my long comment. Did it sway your decision? Please tell me that it did. 1 star for City of Lost Souls?! I'm heartbroken. and "realistic standards" this is not realistic! This is a dangerous demon-ridden world! not some everyday existence as we face!
I actually think that their 'love' is viewed different by people because everyone has different definitions of love. Some think there is no such love coming that fast so they say no but others say that can happen so they say yes.I am the kind who believes any kind of love in books so I say yeah they love each other. I don't really believe it for real life though.
I think that Clary and Jace are just showing their love by never wanting to let go of each other. So much has happened to them and they are just trying to forget the past, but of course that is impossible. I think that their 'lust' for each other is just that they want to be as close to each other as possible. I honestly think that everything they've been through to be together just proves how much they love each other. It's obvious that Clary has had a huge impact on Jace's life and has literally changed him. And the same goes for Clary. And to the people who think that the scene in the garden was too fast, Jace said in CoLS that almost right after they met he wanted to kiss her. Not just for lust but for the sake of being close to her. I get the point that people are trying to make that they don't love each other, but I really believe that they love each other.
At Rachel: You didn't sway me at all. And CoLS was plain bad, plain and simple.Also, I have not so much a problem with love or lust at first sight, but did anybody here notice that everything people in the books talk about what is desirable about Jace is his looks? Even Alec, and he knew him for along time, why does he only mention his looks?
Also saying "This is a dangerous demon-ridden world! not some everyday existence as we face!" Is not valid, because not only make the books references to real world titles (e.g. Naruto) but it is clearly stated that it is a world hidden under/in the normal world and that normal world is definitely based directly on ours. And as such these people have the same pychological profiles we have. And people, sane people, simply do not act this way.
And the worst Thing is: Jace and Clary do not develop. Not at all. Despite everything Clary is still as reckless as in book 1 and Jace the same arrogant jackass. Not even their relationship evolves, the only difference is that they no longer think that they are brother and sister. But conveniently Clary is still a virgin throughout all of this.
I don't believe in love at first sight, like how it apparently happened with Jace and Clary. I believe people can be very strongly attracted to eachother when they first meet, but that's not love. I also don't believe that teenagers can't love someone. My take on it, is that they met, were very attracted to eachother (but didn't love each other from that very first meeting) and then fell in love. I doubt that they will still be together ten years down the road, though. Most people change A LOT in their late teens/early twenties, and they're probably going to grow apart. That's what happens to most people, and that's why most of us don't end up with our high school sweethearts.
In real life you are right. But lets be honest, by real life standards: would these two still be together at the end of book 5?
Olivia wrote: "So being the massive fan that I am, I can't help but want to spread the word around and practically force people to read it. In the process of doing so, I got my friends to read it and one of them ..."My friend, I have to say I agree with every single thing your dear friend had said to you. What's between Jace and Clary is just lust and physical attraction---especially on Clary's part. And she gets worse in CoFA and CoLS, all she can think about is Jace's beauty and wanting to make out with him. Yuck.
Andre wrote: ".And also you do not mention that Clary completely ignores Jace's wish to hand himself over to the Clave.."Yes that's right. I was so angry when for once Jace is doing something selfless, and Clary just totally ignores his wish and calls Sebastian down on him instead.
As to how much they're willing to do for each other....well, Clary turning Jace in to Sebastian totally ruins it for me.
Jeni wrote: "I'm always skeptical when authors tell me that teenagers are in honest-to-goodness-forever-and-ever love.*nod nods*
The main problem in my eyes is really that Clary only describes Jace's Looks. But what about his personality? They are together for 6 months now and she still mentions nothing about his character. That is odd, to say the least.And loving someone involves great deal of trust and when that trust is shattered, as when Clary betrayed Jace, you don't just shrug it off because you "love" that person. You are hurt.
I think it is the same problem as with Maia and Jordan. Supposedly that he bit her and made her a werewolf was in great deal because he loved her and couldn't let her go. That despite the fact that he knew something was wrong with him. What he did was not love, it was a factor playing into it for sure, but ultimately he was just plain selfish. This whole situation with the two reminds me of that Disney show Gargoyles and the episode called "Mark of the Panther:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbxif...
What the character Tea went through with Phara is very reminiscent of Maia and Jordan, but unlike Maia she is angry at Phara, for good reason, and remains so. They reconcile somewhat but it's clear that the whole ordeal left a visible mark on them. Not so with Maia and Jordan, the two reconcile way too easily. But Clary and Jace do not even have a fight of any kind, not really. And it never has any lasting effect. If they are supposedly so emotionally invested, why are there no hurt emotions present after all this? Now many here said that Clary was willing to risk everything for Jace. True, but the thing is that this made her totally reckless and apparently oblivious to the needs of her friends and family, she practically forced Simon to help her, basically threatened him. Worse, despite the fact that she has no plan on what exactly to do she never even considers how Jace might feel would something happen to her. Not a second did she waste on it. Clearly, there is no hint as far as I can remember that she thinks about his feelings at all. That is not love.
At Andre: I can't believe you still dont think they are in love! Perfect story of LUST: Romeo and Juliet. First day they see each other. Second day, they get married (and Romeo deflowers Juliet). Third day they commit suicide. They fell into LUST not LOVE. Does that sound anything at all like City of Bones? And please point out that Clary is still a virgin. And after about three months of dating Jace, she still is. Jace, being possessed, pushed her toward losing her V but I think it was just Sebastian's feelings leaking through the bond. Clary is driven to protect those that she LOVES and cares for. This makes her do reckless things. She didn't thing about Jace's feelings because she thought first of Jace's LIFE and being with this boy that she LOVES and saving him. If it's not love then what it is?! This is not lust.
I don't want to argue further whether it's lust or love Clary is feeling toward Jace, but can you look at what yourself was saying here for a second? Rachel wrote: "he didn't thing about Jace's feelings because she thought first of Jace's LIFE and being with this boy that she LOVES and saving him."
By turning Jace to Sebastian in CoLS, Clary was subjecting the boy she claimed to LOVE to a fate that Jace didn't want any part in. Jace himself had stated it very clearly that he would rather face the Clave than to be controlled by Sebastian. But Clary didn't even respect his wish.
Am I supposed to believe not respecting someone's wish still counts as an act of love?
Mizuki wrote: "By turning Jace to Sebastian in CoLS, Clary was subjecting the boy she claimed to LOVE to a fate that Jace didn't want any part in. Jace himself had stated it very clearly that he would rather face the Clave than to be controlled by Sebastian. But Clary didn't even respect his wish."Clary loves Jace so much that she can't bear to have him turn himself in and die. She is desperate for a way to stop him and the only weapon in her defense is Sebastian. Later, at the end of CoLS tho, Clary repents her choice and tells Jace that she should have respected his decision and let him turn himself in. They both agree that they should respect each other's decisions and that they can't protect each other from everything even tho they try. Love or Lust? Do they start tearing at each others clothes the minute they see each other? Do they start making out like crazy? Don't say no because of the heavenly fire. That wouldn't be the only reason why not.
Andre wrote: "The main problem in my eyes is really that Clary only describes Jace's Looks. But what about his personality? They are together for 6 months now and she still mentions nothing about his character. ..."First of all: Clary is so reckless because she can't think straight, BECAUSE SHE IS BESIDE HERSELF WITH WORRY OVER JACE, HER TRUE LOVE. Clary risked her life going against the Clave to be with Sebastian and Jace. She was doing everything and anything she could to get Jace back. So, when Jace was willing to sacrifice himself, she couldn't let him do it. She loved him, and was not going to let him die. Jace knew that. Jace would have done the same thing to rescue Clary. They know that they love each other, and can't live without the other! To love someone means that you will forgive them for just about anything (unless they turn out to be evil, like TID spoiler: (view spoiler))
Secondly: When Jordan turned Maia HE DIDN'T MEAN TO. He wishes he hadn't. He was not in control of his emotions at the time because he was turning into a werewolf. He was willing to let Maia go if it meant that she had a better life! He was sick over what he had done. That is not what you call selfishness. When Jordan came back and saw Maia he was very respectful, knowing that he had no chance to get Maia back. Heck, he would have let her kill him the first time she saw him in CoFA and started to attack him. He thought he deserved it for doing something so terrible to her.
Ariel wrote: "Andre wrote: "The main problem in my eyes is really that Clary only describes Jace's Looks. But what about his personality? They are together for 6 months now and she still mentions nothing about h..."Thank you Ariel:) My sentiments exactly. They love each other Andre get it in your head. How are you supposed to love and enjoy books if you analyze the crap out of everything and keep questioning Cassie Clare?
Rachel wrote: "Ariel wrote: "Andre wrote: "The main problem in my eyes is really that Clary only describes Jace's Looks. But what about his personality? They are together for 6 months now and she still mentions n..."Exactly. :) Just except it and enjoy the awesome book series.
Ariel wrote: "Exactly. :) Just except it and enjoy the awesome book series."I know right! Ugh Andre you are just trying to cause trouble and oppose people. And I saw your ratings of the City of Bones series. If you hate the series so much then don't read it! No wonder why you don't think Jace and Clary are in love.
I don't have to try anything. I knew the moment I said my own honest opinion that there would be people who act like children and not only say the same all the time but also act like victims. Because that is what you do when you write stuff like this:How are you supposed to love and enjoy books if you analyze the crap out of everything and keep questioning Cassie Clare?
…
Andre you are just trying to cause trouble and oppose people.
You act like you are victims. But I didn't force you to do anything. You could have just stopped.
Also me not thinking that Jace and Clary aren't in love has nothing to do with me not liking the books. I can separate such things, so you could at least be respectful and adult enough not to assume things you cannot know.
And seriously. Do you think about what you write there?
Think about it:
How will I know whether a book is good or not without reading it? Do you think I am psychic?
What did you expect when participating in such a thread? That everybody will agree with you? Instead of being insulting to people who do not agree with you two and attacking them you might want to ask yourself whether they have a point. I did that with you so it's not too much to ask of you to do the same. If you cannot stand view points and argumentations that go against what you want and like, don't participate.
And why is this book series "awesome"? Because of the over the top pacing, the stolen plots and concepts? The unoriginal writing? The constant POV changes? The inconsistently used concepts? The constant repetition? The unnecessary angst? The rudeness of its main females? The arrogance of Jace? The immaturity of Magnus (seriously he acts like a teenager and not a 300 year old man)? Her whimpy bad guys? Her constant insults to other cultures? Her tokenism? That he makes such a big fuss about stuff that turns out to be no actual problem at all?
Not to mention her constant use of similes and just having someone or something burst into the scene to break of a conversation.
And as for analyzing it:
I don't have to!
The plotholes, weird writings, strange behaviors and inconsistencies are obvious.
Rachel wrote: "And please point out that Clary is still a virgin."
Do you even read what I write? I already pointed that out in a comment above. Also this virginity thing is just the infantilizing of sex typical for fantasy. Nothing special about that, at most it's cashing in on the virgin hype. Thereby they make it safe, just like with not killing anyone important to the story.
Rachel wrote:" She didn't thing about Jace's feelings because she thought first of Jace's LIFE and being with this boy that she LOVES and saving him. If it's not love then what it is?! This is not lust."
No Clary's behavior in her "rescue" of Jace without any plan is not love, it is obsession.
Mizuki wrote: "By turning Jace to Sebastian in CoLS, Clary was subjecting the boy she claimed to LOVE to a fate that Jace didn't want any part in. Jace himself had stated it very clearly that he would rather face the Clave than to be controlled by Sebastian. But Clary didn't even respect his wish.
Am I supposed to believe not respecting someone's wish still counts as an act of love?"
Totally agree.
Rachel wrote: " Do they start tearing at each others clothes the minute they see each other?"
Well they make out in the training room, she nearly has sex with Jace in some club (the one where the natural enemies vampires and werewolves are suddenly friends with each other) albeit you would clearly attribute that to the drug. But once Jace is free (plot convenience) they waste their time talking and making out instead of getting out of there. After only a few days they already start kissing each other in CoB. Despite Jace being nothing but rude to her, Clary is totally infatuated with him in CoB already and not even thinking they are siblings keep them from having the hots for each other. And if you love someone you talk about more than just their looks. And quite frankly: love develops, it doesn't just pop out of nowhere. Also if Clary loves Jace so much she should respect his choices and not impose her will on him. Also imposing our will on someone else when that person does not want to is per definition evil.
And don't try to impose your will on mine because:
"Anyway, that other thing we almost did in Paris—that’s probably off the table for a while. Unless you want that whole baby-I’mon-fire-when-we kiss thing to become freakishly literal.”
“No kissing?”
“Well, kissing, probably. But as for the rest of it…”
All the stuff Clare throws into the books doesn't change that these two do not act like people who love each other, not even those that are in love. And especially not Clary.
: " When Jordan turned Maia HE DIDN'T MEAN TO."
If the issue between the two had been so serious as you claim why did Maia forgive him so easily?
And you do realize that the stories given in CoA and CoFA are slightly divergent? In CoFA it is stated:
The first time I ever changed. The transformation ripped through my body and tore my bones and skin apart. I was in agony, and not just because of that. I wanted her, wanted her to come back, wanted to explain, but all I could do was howl. I took off running through the streets, and that was when I awe her, crossing the park near her house. She was going home…"
"And you attacked her," Simon said. "You bit her."
"Yeah," Jordan stared blindly into the past.
But in CoA it was stated:
Twenty-four stitches later, she was back in her pink bedroom, her mother hovering anxiously. The emergency room doctor had said the bite looked like a large dog's, but Maia knew better. Before the wolf had turned to race away, she'd heard a hot, familiar whispered voice in her ear, "You're mine now. You'll always be mine."
The story in CoA is different from the one in CoFA and tells a clear story. One of obvious intent, since in CoA he clearly talked while in CoFA it was stated that he could only howl. I noticed that the first minute I read the story in CoFA. Apparently Clare cannot even remember what she herself wrote.
As for all you people that scream that Jace would have died had Clary not yelled for Sebastian:
Did it ever occur to you that once out of the house she could have portalled them to the Institute, where they could have used Clary's and Magnus' powers to try and separate them? Especially considered that at that time the others would have had the sword already. But the sword is beside the point, the point is, that the Clave can't just kill someone, because when Sebastian is dead they might never know whether what he set in motion could still be stopped. Only idiots would simply kill Jace without getting information out of him at first, which takes time. In addition the Clave is no longer entirely Shadowhunter so Luke would have a voice in it, a further ally. By interrogating Jace they would have found out the Seelie Queen's duplicity. And if you would still say that they might have killed him outright, let me tell you that Clary could have used her powers as a bargaining chip also. They saw what she can do and it would be stupid to lose such a valuable ally/tool, whatever you want to call her. And had they not gone to the Institute: what does Clary have her rune powers for? Hide the two. There are certainly runes for that and she can make them stronger. Also Clary could have used her great powers to incapacitate Sebastian. Why is she such a deus ex machina if the author doesn't even use it?
At Andre: I'm sorry for my rude comments, I didn't mean to offend you. As you can tell tho, I am a HUGE fan of these books. I argue daily with my friends about these books. Some of them even refuse to read the rest of CoB series because they hated the end of City of Bones! You have the right to your own opinions and so do I. We should just leave it at that and I'm sure that with the release of City of Heavenly Fire, we will find more evidence to persuade or dissuade the other in the question of "Do Clary and Jace actually love each other?" Sorry again if I upset you.
Ok, apology accepted. But you have to work on that. Many people get claimed to be trolls just because people don't like that they see things different. Also I think there are more important topics about these books than these weird relationships.And being a fan is in my eyes not a reason to simply adore a series. Because, do I think the Basic concepts had potential? Yes? Do I think that Mrs. Clare used them? No. Not at all. Also I personally think that the adults in this series are incredibly stupid.
Andre wrote: "Ok, apology accepted. But you have to work on that. Many people get claimed to be trolls just because people don't like that they see things different. Also I personally think that the adults in this series are incredibly stupid..."Ok thank you for accepting my apology. Sorry again, and yes I probably should work on that. I get way too worked up about ALL books that I read. haha I'll probably just end up getting slapped one of these days... And yes for once we agree! These adults are completely stupid! really the Circle? what the heck were they thinking!
I apologize too. I wasn't trying to be mean or insult you, I just feel strongly about the book series and got a little carried away. I'll admit, you do make some very good points.
Ariel wrote: "I apologize too. I wasn't trying to be mean or insult you, I just feel strongly about the book series and got a little carried away. I'll admit, you do make some very good points."I second that. Haha I guess we are just very enthusiastic fans. And Andre, I probably sound like some psychonut but again I'm sorry and I'm normally not this bad unless it comes to book arguments.
Actually that iss another flaw with the book. It is ok if teenagers are heroes. But personally when you make the adults this dumb is that really saying much then?Perhaps we should open a new thread on that topic.
Yeah, like the Clave won't listen. I don't even know how many times in the books that the characters go against the Clave because it's actually the right thing to do.
I actually had a hard time believing Jace and Clary really loved each other too. But I am a Clace fan!
Well, by realistic standards they wouldn't love each other just yet, it could work, but love simply doesn't evolve that fast. Of course in MI and TID this whole stuff works way too fast, however when an author does that she should keep it consistent and let them evolve faster. And also stick with that, I mean even fans had trouble with CoFA due to the sudden angst between the two. Where did that come from? The same with Alec and Magnus. Way too early. Also, true Jace sees more than just Clary's looks but Clary doesn't. So if it is love, it is pretty onesided in my eyes. Which would be good stuff for storytelling but not for a big romance.
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Well so far I've read only the third and I'm working on the first and going through the series. But I honestly think they do love each other. I mean I know that they're "brother and sister" but before they knew that they loved each other. I know that any time they actually show affection to each other they are making out lol, but they're still very honest with each other and you can see they actually care about the other. For me Simon is just too much like her brother, and not that amazing love you have for the right person. But that's just me, I'm unlearned in this series, but can't wait to finish lol. But sticking with it being honest love <3