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Game of Thrones - reading schedule
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Meg
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May 10, 2013 04:42PM
So the whole scene with the dog. I think this is a perfect example of how conflicted Sansa is. She has been bred to go along with her prince in whatever he says. This is the first of many times that it backfires on her. If she had said the truth the wolves wouldn't have died. She only realizes this too late. I think this is the conflict of women of that time.
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If she told the truth, who knows what would happen.
In that scene with "he said she said", I did not see Sansa as a woman caught in a difficult political or social situation. I saw a little girl caught between impressing her new, older and more thrilling friend and her irritating little sister. I saw grown ups fighting over power and using children as the rope in the tug of war. This could have been any domestic scene.I am struck by the difference between Dany and Sansa. Sansa is less than 2 years younger than Dany but Dany seems much more grown up. I have no problem remembering that Sansa is not quite 12 years old, butI am having trouble remembering that Dany is 13 years old.
Dany's brother and Joffrey strike me as kindred spirits, even though their childhoods have been very different. Both are bullies with potential access to far more power than they can handle. Both need to prove something and are totally misguided on how to function in the adult world of power.
What do people think of Tyrion (the dwarf) and Petyr (Little Finger)? Martin has created more ambiguity in these characters at this point in the reading, than he has in all the other characters. Should Catelyn and Ned trust Petyr or is he loyal to the Lannisters? What about that dagger that was used to try to kill Bran and was last in the possession of Tyrion? Tyrion seems so genuine in his interactions with Jon, but is this a guise? What makes you trust or distrust Petyr or Tyrion at this point?
Ummm well I will try to comment without spoiling. My first impression of Littlefinger was not to trust him. He is too good at concealing his true feelings and thoughts. The only real feelings he shows are those towards Cat. Ned and Cat should not trust Littlefinger. Tyrion, I love Tyrion because he is the exception to the Lannisters. He is truly the black sheep in that family. It is too easy for someone to plant the dagger. It would not be that hard. This book is full of deceit. Everyone in Tyrion's immediate family hates him so to me, that set him apart. He doesn't act like a Lannister either. He is the only honest and noble person in that family.
It has been pretty quiet on this thread. How is everyone doing?
Mod
I am really liking Tyrion for some reason. He seems real, says it like it is. I like that. I hope he doesn't turn out to be one of the bad guys. I have a hard time believing he had anything to do with the attempted murder of Bran.
As to Littlefinger, he doesn't seem trustworthy to me. I get the feeling he has ulterior motives.
Go with those feelings :) I love Tyrion. He has all the best lines in the book and on the show. I will give you a quote he says from last Sunday's show. Don't worry it won't ruin anything.He is talking to his bodyguard and he says "Stop putting dirty thoughts in my head. The ones that are there don't need any more company." :)
So far in the novel, we have encountered chapters from the point of view of nearly every Stark character and almost no one else. Except for Dany and Tyrion, we have not seen the story from anyone outside the Stark family. Hearing the story from each character's perspective allows the reader to build sympathy with that character and to see the world from their perspective. It is obvious that we are to emotionally align with the Stark family. But, is there any other character that you would like to hear from so that you could have a fuller perspective of the story?
How is the reading pace for each of you? Is everyone keeping up? Should we move more quickly? We can adjust the schedule if there is a need.
I have to apologize for not writing much and for reading slowly, I broke my wrist at work and I can only use one hand. It is hard to type and hold the book!
Meg, So sorry to see you broke your wrist. I hope you feel better soon.
Man! I wish I would have found this group earlier!!! I have both Les Mis and Games on my "Weekend Read" list for the year since they were such a large read. The only way I thought I would be able to get through the books were to participate in a read-along. I looked EVERYWHERE for a read-along for both Games and Les Mis... To no avail.... Nevertheless I started reading Games and I am currently on page 70 or 80 something. Hopefully I catch up by the 19th in order to join the discussion.
Now with Les Mis... that is a lost cause. I do not think I will be able to catch up with the discussion.
B. wrote: "Man! I wish I would have found this group earlier!!! I have both Les Mis and Games on my "Weekend Read" list for the year since they were such a large read. The only way I thought I would be able ..."B, Welcome. Would love to have you join this discussion. Feel free to post your impressions so far.
As for Les Mis, you are also welcome in that thread. Hugo is so wordy, that I don't think there will be many spoiler comments if you come in late.
Irene wrote: "B. wrote: "Man! I wish I would have found this group earlier!!! I have both Les Mis and Games on my "Weekend Read" list for the year since they were such a large read. The only way I thought I wou..."Thanks! I just checked and I am actually on page 108 of Games so I will be able to join in the discussion on Sunday, I will try my best to catch up with Les Mis and join in that discussion as well. However two heavy books at one time maybe too much for me. LOL...
I know how you feel B. I'm reading Game of Thrones and Stephen King's 11/22/63 both this month (as well as whatever else I can fit in)!
I am reading Les Mis and I read Games twice. With the show, the book is still pretty fresh in my mind so I am side leading. I can say that if you chose to read the other books you do get the view points of other characters.
Anyone have anything they want to talk about from where they are in the reading?
Mod
I'm curious what everyone thinks of the ice wall. That thing seems monstrous! Does it appear that way in the TV show? How on earth were they able to build it?
Well book one is fire and ice
The wall looks amazing in the TV show.Here are some screen caps of the wall on the show (I'm putting them in the spoiler tags so people don't have to load the images if they don't want to): (view spoiler)
They film the Castle Black scenes at the bottom of a large quarry in Northern Ireland. I suppose they then CGI the ice.
The wall is fricking huge. I think Sam describes it as being 600 ft tall. It is amazing to look at.
Mod
Mother Nature? I don't know honestly.
That ice picture looks like a Niagara Falls when it is frozen over, from the Maid of the Mist (a boat) viewpoint.
Sheila wrote: "So how did they build this thing??? They are riding horses, and seem to only have medieval technology. How did they build this massive 600 ft tall, miles long, wall of ice??"Their legend says that the First Men and the Children of the Forest built The Wall using a combination of manual labor and magic, 8000 years prior to Robert's Rebellion, in order to defend the realm from the White Walkers and their wights, after they attacked for the first time during The Long Night.
Makes me think of the Great Wall of China.
Irene, I find the pace very good. Not to much so I am getting lost or overwhelmed trying to remember. It also allows me to read other books too. I am interested in the Jen Poole. I am not sure if she is a secondary or main character. I would like to know why she and Sansa are so problamatic when they deal with Araya.
I just love that every time I pick up this book I am excited.
So Jon Arrayn has a child somewhere out there did I get that right? Then a maid that was married in a hurry.
There are many storys to follow. I am intrested in the murder mystery surrounding Jon Arrayn. I am not sure right now if it was stark or lannister involved.
I would like to hear from Goffrey. I sense that we have a little boy trying to figure things out, not of a monster. I would like to see the world from his POV inside the Lannister family before he learns how to bury his questions and doubts.I would also like to hear from Kahl. Because he can not speak wih Dany, he is a complete mystery and so is his culture.
Mod
I think this is why I am not a big reader of fantasy. I am too scientific. I read about this miles long 600+ foot tall wall of ice, this monstrosity, and I instantly starting thinking "I wonder how they built that?"..."Was it with blocks of ice like an Eskimo igloo?"..."Where did they get that much ice??"..."That would take ALOT of ice, I wonder where they cut those giant blocks?"..."Was there a giant frozen lake nearby?"..."I wonder if they moved them like they built the pyramids?"..."Or maybe they just kept pouring water on the top and let if freeze?"..."But if it was cold enough to freeze it and keep the wall forever frozen, then how would they keep the water from freezing?"...and on and on and on! LOL
I like the pace also, more than this would be overwhelming
Sheila, It was under my impression that the Wall is far, far North like Alaska or Antartica so you could have a wall that big and I think it was originally man made and then Mother Nature had a hand in it as well. Rebecca, Jen Poole is a secondary character.
With Jon Arryn, he was murdered. I am not going to say by who. I don't recall any bastard children by him but King Robert has quite a few.
It may seem like there are many stories but it is one story but different points of view. Not all those points of view have all the information, if that makes sense.
Comparing the Wall to the Wall of China is a good comparison. I don't think the Wall is as long as the Wall of China. However both were designed to keep foreigners out.
Has everyone read this week's assigned reading?Tyrion continues to fascinate me. Why do you think he is so caring to the Stark children (first Jon and then Bran)? What did you think of Catelyn's public accusation of Tyrion in Bran's attempted murder?
King Robert appears amazingly unaware of how dangerous things are for him. He is not a stupid man, so why do you think he is oblivious to the signs? Is this willful ignorance or do you think he has lived with danger so long that he has become desensatized?
It feels as if the Stark family is the only royal family that has not become ruthless and brutal. What is different about this family? I wonder why we have been given a psychopath in Gregor?
Any reaction to Samwell? I really hope he plays a significant role Because, otherwise, he feels like a nod to political correctness: let's tackle bullying, homosexuality and obesity in the same character.
O, I really thought that was what Martin was hinting at with the tales of his father trying to toughen him up and how Samwell wanted to hang around the kitchen and dance and all the rest. I guess I was the one stereotyping. My apologies. I am rather embarrassed for making that link.
He's just a softie, and more of an intellectual than a fighter. And he does play quite a significant role.GRRM may have wanted to play around with those stereotypes a bit though. Sam exhibits maybe some effeminate traits and is definitely heterosexual. Renly (Robert's little brother) is gay, as is Loras (the Knight of Flowers) who is arguably the best fighter in Westeros.
I was thinking the same thing too Irene. I wasnt sure how Martin wanted to take Sam's effeminate traits. Now we know.
Sam isn't gay. :) As for Robert, I think he is under the illusion that everyone loves him and he is the big war hero. Also, no one wants to tell Robert the truth either about what they really think of him to his face.
Jayme(the ghost reader) wrote: "As for Robert, I think he is under the illusion that everyone loves him and he is the big war hero. Also, no one wants to tell Robert the truth either about what they really think of him to his face."Plus he's drunk all the time anyway lol. Ned I think is the only one left who isn't afraid to tell Robert the truth. And perhaps Cersei to some extent, but her truth is sorta twisted and I don't believe Robert cares what she thinks. Robert dislikes being king. He longs to be the great warrior again, not some political figurehead, and so there probably is some part of him who wants to ignore it or sees himself as the invincible young man that he once was, as Jayme said.
As to Tyrion, he has an affinity for bastards and broken things. ;) He sees Jon being looked upon with scorn or Bran with pity and knows what that's like, so he identifies with them.
I think that the Starks have maintained their good hearts because they've been largely isolated from anything that happens at court and the children have been raised by a loving man who values honor above nearly everything else. They haven't been corrupted by shady behavior. But they haven't been exposed to it either, and that naivete can present problems because the Starks don't necessarily have the street smarts that some of the other major players do (with the exception perhaps of Arya who figures the way of things out pretty quickly).
Exactly what you said Jenny in regards to the Starks.
Reading this book slowly with the group is giving me time to develop misconceptions about characters based on initial impressions. I think that is a good thing because that is how we develop impressions about real life people. I was expecting Loras to be some sort of Playboy based on his flirting with the ladies in the crowd. But, now that you tell me that he is homosexual, I can see that being set up also. Would not have guessed that Arya would turn out to be the Stark with the "street smarts" who figures things out the most quoickly.So, does Tyrion's soft spot for "broken people" extend to Sandor also? Gregor scares me. The cruelty of some of the characters is explicable to me. It is in the service of another goal such as power. But, Gregor is being presented is a total psychopath. Burning his little brother's face to the bone because he dared to play with his toy is beyond anything rational. I am surprised that Sandor did not die of an infection.
Tyrion's words when he gave Bran the saddle were, "I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things." But his tender spot doesn't extend to monsters like Gregor Clegane. Tyrion probably sees himself as a cripple, a bastard, and a broken thing.As to Bran, I think part of it may have also been an attempt to help alleviate what his family did. Tyrion is more than smart enough to suspect the truth, and he likely feels that there is a debt that needs to be paid for Bran's accident. "Lannisters always pay their debts."
Jenny wrote: "Tyrion's words when he gave Bran the saddle were, "I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things." But his tender spot doesn't extend to monsters like Gregor Clegane...."I would not call Gregor a "Broken thing" (although if he is a true psychopath, then mental health disabilities are a severe illness), but Sandor is truly broken. Not only is he terribly deformed, shunned by those who don't want to look at his ugliness, but he has to carry awful psychological scars since he can recall every detail of the brutal attack by his own brother. Although Sandor has a hard exterior, I suspect it is a defense mechanism against the pain of the trauma.
Irene wrote: "Has everyone read this week's assigned reading?Tyrion continues to fascinate me. Why do you think he is so caring to the Stark children (first Jon and then Bran)? What did you think of Catelyn'..."
As of right now Tyrion and Jon are my favorite characters. I strongly dislike Sansa.
King Robert better shape up and shape up QUICK. The only thing I worry about is when Ned tells Robert whats going on, that he believes Ned.
As for Samwell, its good to know that he will play a significant part in the storyline, but like a lot of you all.... I thought he was gay as well. Maybe I would have to look within myself because I feel that I placed stereotypes on him.
Lastly, how do we know that Loras is gay? Will we find this out later in the book?
Question: Did you find it "fishy" that Joffery suddenly appeared when he saw another guy given her attention?
You find out Loras is gay later. Which guy do you mean?
I don't remember if the text ever straight up mentions that Loras or Renly is gay, but the insinuations and clues are there from almost the beginning of their introduction into the story, and every so often a character will make a suggestive comment. It's sort of subtle in the books. The show is much more upfront about it.
B. wrote: "Irene wrote: "Has everyone read this week's assigned reading?Tyrion continues to fascinate me. Why do you think he is so caring to the Stark children (first Jon and then Bran)? What did you thi..."
Joffrey's appearance didn't surprise me. I get the impression that he is rather teritorial and has picked up on the general paranoia of the palace intrigue. If Sansa is his betrothed, he is not going to allow anyone to steal her away. I also picture the royal family members in a specially designated area, so it would be easy to keep an eye on everyone else.
I think a big part of his attention to the Starks is because the father was picked as the Hand, placing him into power and prestige.
Meg, Who do you mean by "his" in your post? Martin? Joffrey?
The Starks were already in a position of power and prestige. They're one of the most prominent families in Westeros, well before Robert names Ned as his Hand. Ned was Warden of the North. He was also the Lord Paramount of the North. The lords paramount each rule one of the kingdoms of Westeros, under the overall rule of the King.
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