Game of Thrones - reading schedule

[Rebecca]

Jayme I started yesterday. I can't put it down. These characters have me sucked in. I can't wait to watch the series. I am also glad for the summaries to help me recap and make sure I am on track.

[Meg]

JAYME
does the DVD /sidereel or hulu have the discussions like they did with HBO after each episode?

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Probably not on the sidereel or hulu. I am not sure on the DVD. Maybe in the special features.

[Irene]

OK, our discussion officially begins tomorrow on the first 115 or so pages. I agreed to co-facilitate (something I have never done before) so want to be responsible. Hope I am not over-stepping by posing some general questions.

What are initial impressions of the novel?

Martin creates a fictional world for the reader. How well did he accomplish this? Can you visualize this alternate world or are you confused by unusual names? Did you ever feel that he sacrificed plot momentum for the sake of the detail needed to create this new world?

In the Prologue, Martin introduces supernatural elements in the form of ghostly warriors and magical swords. Does the early introduction of the supernatural intrigue you or make what follows less credible?

[Cathie]

What a creative mind Martin has. I am now totally immersed in this novel. I don't like all the characters and I don't like all the happenings, but it is an intriguing read and I like being a gawker into this world. I feel he is building the plot through the history we get of his characters.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

It is okay if you don't like all the characters. I don't like all the characters. Some you aren't supposed to like. What I like to know id which house everyone favors-Lannister, Stark, Bareathon or Targaryn?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

What are initial impressions of the novel?

Hmm, so far I am not overly impressed. I know this is really popular with many people, but so far it is not "hooking" me.

Can you visualize this alternate world or are you confused by unusual names?

I have never been a big reader of fantasy, so maybe this is why I am not enamored by this book. I am having a hard time visualizing this alternate world (I keep wanting to compare it to medieval England) and the unusual names are off-putting to me.

But I'm going to keep going, and see if I can get sucked it. Maybe it will hook me with the story...I'm hoping.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Medieval England is what you are supposed to think. Martin based this story from the Hundred Years War. Yes there are going to be names you can't pronounce. If you are watching or watched the series you will have easier time with the names. As for getting into the story, the first time I tried to read it, it was confusing. I had to start over and read it again. It is a little slow in the beginning.

Also don't look at it as a purely fantasy novel. It reads more like a historical fiction novel with some fantasy elements. There is some magic and supernatural elements used but compared to other fantasy novels is light on fantasy. I read a lot of fantasy.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Also, does anyone else think King Robert is a Henry VIII type of character? I thought that when I first read this book.

[Irene]

The wedding sceen took me aback. All the killing and rape as normal to a celebration? How exactly does this society manage to keep going and not self destruct. When Khol turns out to be gentle with Dany after all of that gleeful display of violence, I could not figure out how it fit together.

[Cathie]

Yep, I had a problem with the wedding scene too, but took it as being a part of their culture. Many cultures do things that other cultures can't understand. The part I had a problem with was the wedding sex afterwards; she was only 13 and in Martin's fantasy, she said yes to him; it was her urgings that culminated it, brought along with the King's suspenseful foreplay.

Women and children are clearly undervalued in Martin's world.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Well the Dorthaki are more savage. At least it seems that way. Khal Drogo ended up being one of my favorite characters.

[Sally]

I think I would have been lost in this book if I had not seen the first season on HBO. Currently as I read it, it is a refresher as well as adding some insights.

[Cathie]

I like Khal Drogo too, for the most part Jayme, just don't like where and who he hangs out with.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Keep reading. As for Dany being 13. That was an acceptable age for a girl in the medieval time period to be married. I know 13 in modern times is too young but then it was acceptable. Some girls are married off at 12 or 11.

You definitely need to take some notes in this book. There is a lot of information thrown at you as well as character names. I had to refer to the appendix of the houses quite frequently to keep everyone straight.

I want to go back a little bit. What did everyone think of the direwolf pups? Also, what did you guys think of Bran's "accident"?

What do you guys think of the characters in general? Ned, Cat, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Robb, Tywin, Cersei, Jamie, Tywin, Robert, Tyrion, Dany, Viserys? I know it is a lot of names. Those are the many characters. Forgot Lysa and Jeoffrey.

[Rebecca]

I had to put this down last year and I was really enjoying it. I am glad I can pick it up again. I have to say kudos to Martin. I think tackling fantasy would be difficult to create something new and original. I think he is doing a great job. I have never really been into sci fi or fantasy. I am liking this book A LOT. He has captured a variety of characters with personalities at least someone must identify with and enjoy, another bravo.

I guess I viewed the wedding scene as kind of big orgry. I can't recall if the women were forced to perform. As a 13 year girl seeing that I am sure was sexually stimulating for Dani for sure.

I know Bran is kind of a a spoiled brat but his curiosity intrigues me.
I am furious at the Lannisters right now after what they did to Bran. It was a shocker for me when they pushed Bran.

I am curious about Jon giving Arya the sword she names "needle"

I think for me the direwolf pups are my most favorite to watch. I find it intresting how they each are and respond in regards to their masters.

I feel like Caitlin is going to let me down.

What do people think of Jamie and Cersi?

[Cathie]

My favourite characters are Jon, Bran, Sansa and Arya. I think I am warming up with Tyrion.

I loved the direwolf cubs part and the naming of them and how ironic the final naming of Bran's direwolf.

I was shocked, angered, mortified with the fall of Bran. It wasn't a fall; it was a deliberate attempt to get rid of; to murder.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

I don't like Jamie or Cersei. Their motto should be incest is best.

I love all the direwolves and I was shocked too when Bran got thrown out of the window.

I love Tyrion. He is the biggest underdog in the story.

As for Jon giving Arya "needle". I will say it is the best thing he ever did.

I love Bran. He is one of my favorites. I didn't find him to be a spoiled brat.

[Madhavi]

I have already finished the third book of the series..
moving on to the fourth. I am sorry I could not stop myself from starting to read this series much earlier than the schedule.

But for a few dragging parts.. I have loved this series.
Hope the next ones have fewer unwanted descriptions.

[Anna]

Like Sheila, I'm not overly impressed. I mean, I don't dislike the book, but I'm not excited to pick it up either. I think I try to read the first book, or at least to the next week's discussion, but if it doesn't improve on me, I think I'll just leave it. I should be reading more in French anyway...

For me, what bothered about the Daenerys wedding scene, wasn't so much that she was so young, it also wasn't really rape-y, since he did ask her permission. What bothered me was that it was shown from her perspective, but it just didn't seem believable. I mean, even if she wanted it, if it's her first time, I think she should have some doubts and/or worries. Or that she wasn't expecting it to feel so good or something.

I think I have the same problem with all the characters: I'm don't really feel like I'm in their heads even when it's about their point of view. The best I think was Catelyn with her love for Ned and hatred of Jon, but even that was somehow quite not there: she really was never even a bit conflicted about Jon? I find it hard to believe. I guess I just wish the characters were a bit more complex or maybe that's not the word, but real.

Maybe I had a bit too unrealistic expectations, since everyone's been raving about this, but usually that doesn't bother me. It sucks me in if it's that kind of a book. But as I said, I think I'll give it a try for a little bit longer (at least as long as the kindle sample...) and I'll see if it gets better for me.

[Meg]

I am excited about the author, I am comparing him to Tolkein. This is not my usual genre which is why I watched the beginning on HBO to get hooked. I look at Martin as the modern Tolkein, anyone else feel this way?

[Irene]

What bothered me about the wedding was the contrast between the violence connected with sex during the feast and the gentle foreplay of Khal when he is alone with Dany. I would have expected him to have dominated her. I was also surprised that she knew how to respond, taking his hand and putting it between her legs. Prior, when they were getting her ready, I got the impression that she was not clear about the sexual interaction that would follow the wedding feast.

As for the characters, I am finding them lacking in much complexity right now. Dany's brother is just cruel. The Lannisters are brutal and power hungry. Only theStark family members are getting enough attention in these early pages to show any personality. I suppose that having so many primary characters would prevent any real depth with each person. I like the way each chapter is focused on a character but does not enter their voice. I find that few authors can consistantly create a unique voice for each character when they try to write from inside multiple heads.

I was surprised to see such a mean side to Catelyn. Ned is such an accepting person and she responds so well to him that I would not have expected such overt cruelty to John. I understand that his presence might have been difficult for her, jealousy and all, but she is venomous.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Catelyn feels Ned betrayed her bringing home Jon. He doesn't really tell her anything. So she assumed Ned is the father and he cheated on her. She truly hates Jon. However, she has to keep up appearances.

As for Dany knowing what to do. She was coached by her handmaidens on how to handle Drogo. I think some of that is instinct.

As for Martin being a modern Tolkein, I really don't like Tolkein. Everyone when you say fantasy, Tolkein is the first author they think of. I feel there are much better fantasy writers. Is Martin a creative writer, yes. I personally think he looks more like Santa Claus.

[Irene]

Jayme(the ghost reader) wrote: "Also, does anyone else think King Robert is a Henry VIII type of character? I thought that when I first read this book."

Too early in the novel for me to pick up the similarities between Robert and Henry VIII. But, If Martin is modeling Robert on King Henry and if Martin had the 100 Year Wars in mind when writing this, is any other individual or any other family modeled on historical figures or countries?

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

I thought Jeoffrey was a younger version of Henry VIII especially if you watched the series and have watched Tudors. Also for those of you watching the series, the actress that plays Magery in the series has also played Anne Boelyn in The Tudors. Natalie Dorner is the actress's name.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

It's pretty quiet on this thread. How are you guys coming with the reading?

[Rebecca]

I am starting the next section tonight.

[Meg]

I am rereading some responses, one in particular. The role of women. I don't see the portrayal of the women in a bad subservient role. Some are but not all.

[Cathie]

I am up to Chapter 34 - Catelyn's 4th chapter (pg. 359)

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

I agree Meg, not all women are subservient. Examples, I can think of are Cat, Cersei, Dany and Arya.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I just started this weeks section last night. I have to admit I am still having a problem with the names. I am getting mental pictures of a few main characters, but many of these names are still not coalescing for me.

Since I am not a reader of fantasy, certain elements seem to keep bringing me out of the story too. My mind "wants" to compare this to medieval England, yet then dragons will come up, and my mind goes "ALARM!! Dragons are not real!" So now my mind is trying to make this into a combo of ice age The Clan of the Cave Bear (dire wolves and aurochs), Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (dragons), medieval England type of book. Argh! LOL

[Cathie]

Yeah, it's a mixmash world, Sheila :-). I think by the end of it you (we) will probably be comparing other reads to Martin's world.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Well if you aren't a big reader of fantasy, instead of trying to compare it to other books just visualize what the world will look like for yourself. Picturing medieval England is in the right direction. Like an alternate England where there are dragons and direwolves and with magic. In Martin's world no one thought dragons existed and that was the stuff of ancient tales until they were proved wrong.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Okay this is going to sound really weird. Do you think the Targaryns would have been big fans of the Greek myth Oedipus Rex? You know the whole marrying brother to sister and the fact that Oedipus unknowingly killed his father and married his mother.

[Rebecca]

Sheila I think I see where are coming from. I agree the transition was not to smooth and now I feel more like I am in Lord of the Rings.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Game of Thrones is so much better than Lord of the Rings. :)

[Rebecca]

I am enjoying picking this up again. Good thing it's it rainy day here. Princess Sansa is a little china doll. I like the grit of Arya. I am happy to see Bran in the pic again. Jon has my admiration I wonder how much longer he will be referred to as a bastard and have to take so much. I really like that his character is so evolving.

[Cathie]

Rebecca, you and I seem to be on the same page(s!) about the characters and which ones we like.

My son (age 23) looked at my post and shook his head and said "no one likes Sansa - no one; she's too whiny (lol). I do; yep, she's like a little china doll.

[Irene]

I am trying not to read ahead because it would be too easy for me to post something that the group has not read yet. But, from the first section, I am liking the dwarf (can't recall how to spell his name) the best so far. He seems so perceptive and as if he is going to be the figure that gives me critical insights.

[Meg]

I think Sansa has been groomed to be a lady and she likes her role. Arya, on the other hand, doesn't fit at all and because of it becomes the feisty one. At this point in the story we can't dislike her for being part of that society. Later on, things can change.

[Jenny]

Sansa receives a lot of flak and animosity from fans and I don't feel like that is fair. She's an eleven year old girl, listening to songs of chivalry and honor, being told she will marry a handsome prince. Is it so unforgiving that she is naive or that she cannot understand or support her sister's rejection of these ideals?

It's understandable that people prefer Arya's rebelliousness and cleverness. I won't pretend that Arya isn't one of my top few characters in the series, because she totally is. But there is value in Sansa's sort of strength as well, which I hope readers will come to see as the story continues.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

I can say I like Sansa even though her head is full of fluff. I love Arya. Sansa will come into her own. I will say that without giving too much away.

Irene, the dwarf's name is Tyrion pronounced Tear-e-in. I love Tyrion even if he is a Lannister. Can you tell I don't like the Lannisters? I also love Jon because he has had to take a lot of flack. He had no choice in joining the Night Watch.

So, I think we got to this point now, what did you guys think about Joffrey killing Sansa's direwolf? It is one of the first impressions we get of Joffrey. Course the direwolf lover I am, I was so appalled and sad.

[Cathie]

I do not like Joffrey; I do not! This scene was so sad and I was so outraged; this is definitely not a feel good fluffy book. Martin can be brutal in his imagination and his worldbuilding.

[Irene]

Wasn't it Joffery who pushed Bran to what might have been his death? After that, I expect only brutality from him. Trying to kill a 7 year old boy vs a wolf, I am far more appalled by cruelty to a child.

[Meg]

Jaime, The Kingslayer, was the pusher. He is nasty.

[Cathie]

Irene it was Jaime Lannister that pushed Bran.

I believe all the Lannister's are evil. Grrrr.

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

Not all the Lannisters -I likle Tyrion and Myrcella. However, Jaime pushed Bran out the window. The things you do for love.

[Irene]

Woops, that is right. I haven't picked up this book for a week because I want to make sure I don't have knowledge of what is happening in the section discussed next week. So, I am forgetting names. Reading other things in between isn't good. I want to read this straight through.

[Rebecca]

I am finding the same this one is hard for me to stop reading. Jayme does the movie follow the book. I dowlowloaded the first section but dont know how far it will take me?

[Jayme(theghostreader)]

The first season covers the first book. So if you don't want spoilers, you might want the watch the first season after reading the book. It does follow pretty closely.