You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
This topic is about
When She Woke
Buddy Reads
>
Buddy Read for When She Woke
date
newest »
newest »
SPOILER ALERT FROM HERE ON IN THE DISCUSSION!Have most people completed the book now? If so, maybe we could dispense with marking spoilers?
This gives me an idea. Maybe next time we do a buddy read, we could do a preliminary thread and a discussion thread marked with a warning for spoilers.
Almeta wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Page 184, 53% "
That was a close call! [spoilers removed]"
Spoiler alert:
They gave Hannah her things back because she forced them to. As long as she had all the Walkers there witnessing what was happening, the Henley's had no choice except to return her things. They couldn't risk losing face. If she had done as they told her and gone to the exit, she wouldn't have gotten anything back.
Almeta - <3 the Winchester Boys!
Cherie wrote: "I read The Scarlet Letter last year. I did not really see any real comparison between the two stories except that Hannah and the woman in TSL would never tell who the father of the baby was and some minor referrence to Aiden's "suffering" because he lived a lie...."I read The Scarlet Letter years ago. The characters names were very similar: Hester Prynne/Hannah Payne. While Hester's crime was that of adultery, Hannah's was that of abortion, both were of a sexual nature. Hester's child's name was Pearl, which was the name Hannah gave to her doll. Both Hester and Hannah's affairs were with prominent clergymen who later confessed without Hester or Hannah naming them.
Almeta wrote: "I also expected Kayla to be completely fragged by the time this book concluded...."To me that was a loose end in the story. She's fragging, recovering from the drugs that were in her system, a fugitive from the law, on a journey that could take a few days, and Jordan simply says that Paul has her and is bringing her to Canada? I was an unsatisfying handling of that little bit if you ask me.
Lynn wrote: "Almeta - <3 the Winchester Boys!"So thumbs up to Jensen also?
Janice wrote: "Almeta wrote: "I also expected Kayla to be completely fragged by the time this book concluded...."To me that was a loose end in the story. She's fragging, recovering from the drugs that were in ..."
Why can't The Feminists get their hands on some of the drugs that the Canadians have, and help Chromes de-frag before they begin to die?
Hey pass some of that stuff down here!☻
Almeta wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Almeta - So thumbs up to Jensen also?"
Oh yeah ::drools::
I've not read through the recent posts as I've ben away on a course and have limited internet access. I've just finished the book this evening so once I'm back home on Sunday with a bit of technology, I'll join in with the discussion.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Sarah.
I, too, don't understand why the feminists didn't black market the anti fragging drug. They, like everyone else in this book had their flaws too. Anytime I'm around someone who is strident in their opinions, whether I agree with them or not, makes me uncomfortable. The older I get the more gray I see the world!
Marnie wrote: The older I get the more Gray I see the world."Very true Marnie
Almeta wrote: "Why can't The Feminists get their hands on some of the drugs that the Canadians have, and help Chromes de-frag before they begin to die? Hey pass some of that stuff down here."
We have some good drugs... just like we have stronger beer. We don't like to share. Hehehehe!
Marnie wrote: "I, too, don't understand why the feminists didn't black market the anti fragging drug. They, like everyone else in this book had their flaws too. Anytime I'm around someone who is strident in thei..."My point exactly... undeveloped, loose ends, readers left to their own literary devices. LOL!
Janice wrote: "Cherie wrote: "I read The Scarlet Letter last year. I did not really see any real comparison between the two stories except that Hannah and the woman in TSL would never tell who the father of the b..."Oh, you have a sharper memory than I do. I missed the H for the first names and the child's name. Good ones! Maybe it IS closer than I thought, Janice. I got the pastor guys and the "suffering" though and not so much the abortion, but the out of wedlock sex yes. Oh, and now I see the tie to the sin .
I cheated, Cherie. I looked it up on Wikipedia. It was many years ago that I read The Scarlet Letter. The similarity that had me looking it up was the idea of being "branded" so that your guilt is always visible.I stumbled across something the other day that made me think of this issue. In one community, they are putting signs up on the front lawn of convicted sex offenders identifying their crime. Is this any different than being chromed or forced to wear a badge? Does it imply that this person is a threat whereas everyone else is "safe"?
I think that is such a great point Janice- when you start identifying dangerous people you are implying others are safe. We know that just means some have not been caught yet! I am guilty of that too. I want to know if a sex offender moves in next to me but I know that just because I am not notified of a criminal near me I am not 100% safe either.
Janice wrote: "I cheated, Cherie. I looked it up on Wikipedia. It was many years ago that I read The Scarlet Letter. The similarity that had me looking it up was the idea of being "branded" so that your guilt ..."I wrote a whole, long response to what you wrote about the sex offenders and having their crimes posted, Janice, but when I tried to save it, I got a network error, and I see that it did not get saved. I do not have it in me to re-write it. I do not agree with what they are doing, but I can understand. I agree with what Marnie said about feeling safe, but the whole issue is so terrible. It is so hard to comprehend.
Oh, and I do not mind that you cheated and looked it up on Wikipedia. It made me stop and think a little harder about the two stories! (view spoiler)
I thought about that issue when I was reading WSW, Cherie. By the time Hannah's sentence was up, she would have been red for almost as long as when she had normal pigmentation.... if she survived. I suspect that the shock of being returned to having normal coloured skin after that length of time would almost be as traumatic. Granted it would be an easier transition. Comparing the two women, it would be much harder for Hannah to hide her colour than it would be for Hester to hide her badge.
The thing that keeps coming to me in this book and also about The Scarlet Letter is that it takes 2 people to make a baby, legitimate or not, yet only 1 person gets punished! And it's the same, in the past and apparently in the future. This book raises all kinds of issues and really makes us think about how we feel about these issues, which I believe is what good literature should do.
Janice wrote: "I stumbled across something the other day that made me think of this issue. In one community, they are putting signs up on the front lawn of convicted sex offenders identifying their crime. Is this any different than being chromed or forced to wear a badge? ..."In my opinion there is.
I actually find this disturbing. We get fierce when it comes to our children’s safety. Not all “sex offenders” on a list are pedophiles or rapists for that matter. A person can be labeled a sex offender because he/she was convicted of peeing in public. This staking a sign at someone’s house does not differentiate among offenses; no more than RED distinguished a brutal murder from an abortion. No matter what your views are of these offenses, some are just less dangerous to your loved ones than others.
Today, it is supposed that people who have been convicted of a crime are justly punished. When they are released from prison or probation, they get to begin again. No more punishment for a past deed.
The Chroming in this book IS the punishment. This includes the ostracizing by the public, the shunning by the family. Once the sentence has been carried out, the "staked sign" will be removed; the person will resume an un-colorful life. (pun!)
Unfortunately Chroming also gave cruel people the justification to perpetrate sins of their own toward the Chromed.
If it were possible, I like the idea of Chroming , at least for minor offenses. It might relieve the expense of over-crowded prisons, and reduce repeat offenses.
Hard for a Chartreuse person to rob a bank unnoticed!
Back in civilisation now so I've gone back through all the posts and thought I'd write what I thought now so sorry it's a bit long!I thought it was a well thought out book and definitely brought up lots of issues to think about. I loved the chroming idea (although I wouldn't want that to actually happen). I liked how it was controlled by a virus and required topping up - I like anything about viruses. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to be a chrome - abandoned by society, everyone you love, alone and totally ostracized. Especially for something like having an abortion. Whether I agree with abortion or not, I personally believe that all women should have the choice if they find themselves in a situation where they do not want to have the baby - I don't think it should be illegal. When procedures like this are illegal, women will still seek someone willing to help them as Hannah did and this brings dangers to those women. Luckily, Hannah found someone who was understanding and capable - I had imagined things going wrong for her.
What I always think is bizarre about "living in a world of temptation", is why women have to be the ones (in certain cultures, religions and this book) that have to cover up, change their behaviour etc, rather than the men when it's the men that can't control themselves!
I felt able to connect with Hannah from the start, not because of her upbringing or situations that occurred throughout the book but because she does sewing - strange I know! I really liked the fact that she made pretty, forbidden dresses in secret which she stashed away from her family.
I didn't think the book was too religious - it was part of the storyline although it did shock me somewhat just how blind their faith was, contradictory at times, and talk about double standards! The way I understood it was that State and the Church had become one - I'm so glad it is separate in the UK (for now anyway).
I couldn't believe how the women were treated in the Straight Path centre. No wonder that woman went crazy by the time she had to leave (the one who freaked out during enlightenment when she had to give her "baby" back). I wonder what percentage would end up like that? Can't believe how cruel Bob was to her.
The Henley's had no other option but to give Hannah her things back given the public showdown - they could get away with lying to everyone about Kayla leaving as it was done on the quiet but they would not be able to get away with that when Hannah left. What a nasty piece of work Mrs Henley was - how humiliating were her little tea and chats! I felt really uncomfortable when reading that section. She clearly got a kick out of seeing other people suffer.
I'm pleased she found a friend in Kayla. I thought that the bit at the end where we're told Kayla is safe was a bit of an after thought just to tie up the loose ends. I think I would have liked to have known a bit more about what had happened to her.
I'd have liked Cole to have got what was coming to him for being a wife beater and racist (against chromes) and I'd have liked to have heard Becca managing to get away from him rather than staying and saying "But I love him".
As for what happened between Simone and Hannah, it didn't seem out of character to me (she had previously had an affair with a married man, had sex before marriage plus she'd realised that not everything about her strict Christian upbringing were right for her or even the truth); nor did it shock me really as Hannah had gone through a huge ordeal and Simone was her saviour. Emotions can get pretty high I can imagine in a situation like that. Traumatic situations can bring people together who might not normally have done so if it had not occurred. I also reckon it would be a one time thing.
I thought Aidan Dale was a coward. It wasn't fair for him to let Hannah get a longer sentence for staying quiet - if he'd come forward, her sentence would have been reduced. I'm pleased they never got together at the end - it would have ruined it for me too. I too was screaming when she was going to meet Aidan instead of heading straight to Canada - that was a great risk she took especially as she had already decided not to stay with him.
I thought her encounter with Reverend Easter was going to be her downfall but it turned out alright in the end and it seemed Hannah had a revelation right then. I liked Reverend Easter although I was searching for a bigger reason behind their encounter. That said, she did show Hannah that not all Christian authority figures (if you can call them that) are nut-jobs and that it is ok to ask questions.
I've not read The Scarlet Letter so I cannot compare the two unfortunately.
Wow, well done on the long post! :)Sarah wrote: "I thought that the bit at the end where we're told Kayla is safe was a bit of an after thought just to tie up the loose ends. I think I would have liked to have known a bit more about what had happened to her."
I have to say that when thinking back on the book, this is the point that bugs me the most. I also would have liked more about her story.
I just finished today! This was a great read, very thought provoking and yet it could have been a thicker read and closed up some of the lose ends in a more satisfactory way. That Mrs. Henley reminded me of the character in Harry Potter who becomes headmistress of Hogwart's and then part of the Ministry of Magic. I can't think of her name but she wore pink and she had pictures of cats all over her office and she was vicious to Harry. I thought of her everytime Mrs. Henley was mentioned! I know this book and its characters will stay fresh in my mind for quite a while!
Ann wrote: "I just finished today! This was a great read, very thought provoking and yet it could have been a thicker read and closed up some of the lose ends in a more satisfactory way. That Mrs. Henley remi..."Dolores Umbridge. I was reminded of her too. In fact, I kept picturing her as My Henley.
Janice wrote: "Ann wrote: "I just finished today! This was a great read, very thought provoking and yet it could have been a thicker read and closed up some of the lose ends in a more satisfactory way. That Mrs...."Thanks, Janice! Her name just wouldn't come to me at all! (Senior moment - lol!) She would be perfect if they were ever to make a movie!
Almeta wrote: "Janice wrote: "I stumbled across something the other day that made me think of this issue. In one community, they are putting signs up on the front lawn of convicted sex offenders identifying their..."The reason for the Chroming was to alleviate the cost and crowding in the prisons. Only the most violent were kept "behind bars". Those that were Chromed, wore their prison. Couldn't leave home without it.
I started reading the book only a few days ago because there was so much chatter about it. I don't usually read books with so much overtly religious content. But this one was different. The society in which Hannah lived turned to fundamentalist religion as a reaction and explanation for the ills and disaster that had befallen their world (the Scourge, destruction of LA, etc). Only those that kept to their faith and blindly followed all the rules would be safe and saved.As Hannah moved through her changes from good daughter to adulteress to murderer, prisoner, fugitive and finally free woman, she describes herself as being in a box. Her whole life was lived in a box. Sometimes physical, sometimes mental or emotional.
It was an interesting book. I'm going to have to think about this one for a while.
I know I said that I was going to read this book as a buddy read, but everything has been a little hectic around here lately. Reading has been on the back burner. A very dear friend of ours, a lady who has been a godmother to my husband, died this week, and it has been difficult. There have been other things, but that has been the most emotional of all. I will get to this book...but I'm not certain when. I have it on my kindle, and I am dying to read it. So I'll chime in soon.
I am sorry that I signed up, but did not show up. Please forgive me this one time.
No forgiveness needed Connie .... you have more important things to concentrate on at the moment.
You are so sweet, Lynn. As always. ; )
Connie wrote: "I know I said that I was going to read this book as a buddy read, but everything has been a little hectic around here lately. Reading has been on the back burner. A very dear friend of ours, a lady..."No apologies necessary. Life throws in all kinds of diverse things to be dealt with; makes everything interesting.
Your comments are welcome at anytime!☺
Connie wrote: "I know I said that I was going to read this book as a buddy read, but everything has been a little hectic around here lately. Reading has been on the back burner. A very dear friend of ours, a lady..."so sorry for your loss connie.
There's no need to apologize, Connie. I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. Hugs!!
Lynn wrote: "[spoilers removed] Love it!"I agree! It's one of the best parts of this book that it makes you really think about what you believe about all kinds of things. I think as we get on in our lives we don't always refresh our thinking and just go along as we always have. It's good to do a little spring cleaning and maybe get rid of some cobwebs! IMHO of course!
Ann wrote: "Lynn wrote: "[spoilers removed] Love it!"I agree! It's one of the best parts of this book that it makes you really think about what you believe about all kinds of things. I think as we get on in our lives we don't always refresh our thinking and just go along as we always have. It's good to do a little spring cleaning and maybe get rid of some cobwebs! IMHO of course! ..."
Good thought.
You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
Books mentioned in this topic
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)Jesus Land: A Memoir (other topics)
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
The Handmaid’s Tale (other topics)
More...
Yes it really is!☺