Clockwork Princess
discussion
What did you feel about the ending or the whole book?
Does anyone else think since Jem mentioned about the other guys and girls in the Immortal Instruments series that they might be in CoHF? They're do-gooders arent they? i just got that vibe. But then if they ARE in City of Heavenly Fire what's Tessa going to think when she sees Alec who looks exactly like Will so we're told...
I don't think Tessa is going to be in the CoHF, but I could be wrong. At least, Jem is going be in the CoHF.
now that you know that jem is one of the silent brothers it's kind of weird when you read about the silent brother in TMI.
and i do hope that tessa is mentioned (or appears) in CoHF even though it makes me kind of sad. 'cause i then always have to think about that Will's death...
and i do hope that tessa is mentioned (or appears) in CoHF even though it makes me kind of sad. 'cause i then always have to think about that Will's death...
The thing is, I read the article she posted on love triangles and while I do LOVE what she is saying about there being no end-all-be-all love, and I have one question. While Tessa does fall in love twice and that I can buy, what about Will and Jem? If there is no endgame love for us all...why doesn't that apply to Jem and Will? Why don't they get a second love? Why is Tessa the only one? For Will, we know Tessa was his one and only love. Jem has been in love with her for some odd hundred years so it's unlikely he'll fall for someone else at least while she's alive. I think that's what make people mad about the ending. Doesn't making them solely focus on Tessa kind of undermine then what she's saying about multiple loves? Do you find it kind of sexist? Thoughts?(Don't get me wrong. I LOVED the book, ending and all because it made me feel so damn much. But this is just food for thought.)
The Romantic Cynic wrote: "The thing is, I read the article she posted on love triangles and while I do LOVE what she is saying about there being no end-all-be-all love, and I have one question. While Tessa does fall in love..."Jem was a silent brother.There place is secluded. He couldn't have possibly find another girl to fall in love with.
..In my opinion. :)
was anyone else confused when Jem and sophie were talking at his death bed and he asked her if It was true and she left the room feeling like she did something awful? I didnt understand what she told him. Was it that tessa is in love with will?
It's no surprise that we are all crazy about the conclusion of the triangle. But guys, we should appreciate the conclusion of another crucial point to the story--the defeat of Mortmain and clockwork creatures! Lols
Abby wrote: "It's no surprise that we are all crazy about the conclusion of the triangle. But guys, we should appreciate the conclusion of another crucial point to the story--the defeat of Mortmain and clockwork creatures! Lols"We surely do.
I was surprised that Mortmain is less scary than those clockwork creatures. I had prepared myself for somewhat awful... Oh well... maybe it is just me.
Nurlely wrote: "Abby wrote: "It's no surprise that we are all crazy about the conclusion of the triangle. But guys, we should appreciate the conclusion of another crucial point to the story--the defeat of Mortmain..."Yeah... the way of the defeat is a bit anticlimatic I guess. A huge portion of the last part of the book is devoted to working out Tessa's feelings and all. I actually think there should be more Mortmain elements to the book. I mean, the title is clearly "The Infernal Devices". I don't know, maybe it's just me. But nevertheless the book is still amazing.
Abby wrote: "..I mean, the title is clearly "The Infernal Devices". I don't know, maybe it's just me. But nevertheless the book is still amazing. "I love Cassie... and always consider her books amazing despite the continuous 'tortures' of my fave characters.
I find CP2 less amazing due to lack of info in some part and too much of info in some other part.
Want the honesty? Well CC kinda cheated on us... BUT I guess she just wanted us fans to be happy, so its understandable. Plus she didn't take the easy way out by killing Jem. Oh well, Will's happy, so I'm happy.
I loved the ending and the Epilogue.In the end she got both guys. She was able to experience children and happiness with Will, and then the Epilogue leads us to believe that she will have a great future with Jem as well.
Im wondering if there will be a point where Jem will find out that he himself is immortal so there won't be a fear of his death.
Also given that Tessa is able to have children would they be able to have kids?
I didn't read everyone's response, but I do have a question in regards to the children of Will and Tessa; were any of them found to have traits from Tessa (Half demon half warlock).
So many questions Cassandra! lol
I think that it actually kind of works that Tessa ended up with both Will and Jem because when you think about it, it's kind of like she wasn't in love with two different people, she was in love with two different aspects of ONE person. Will and Jem's souls were bound together. They were one soul. So they both loved Tessa, how could only one of them love her? And she loved both of them. They were all connected. So in a way, she honored Jem's memory in marrying Will, because in that she married the other half of Jem's heart. And when Will died and she went with Jem, she honored Will's memory in being with the other half of his heart. Anyways thats my thoughts, I'm sure some people will disagree since thats not how stuff works in real life, ut we don't have bonds like that of parabatai, so its not going to be like real life. So yeah.
The Romantic Cynic wrote: "The thing is, I read the article she posted on love triangles and while I do LOVE what she is saying about there being no end-all-be-all love, and I have one question. While Tessa does fall in love..."Who would Jem fall in love with? He's been living in the silent city for most of the time between his becoming a silent brother and the epilouge.
Yeah I don't really buy the whole one soul thing lol. I still feel like that's a cop out excuse. What's even the logic behind that? It makes no sense to me.
Here is my take.Tessa's heart was always with Will. He was her passion. When she was rejected by him she took the offer from Jem who was a great guy that she loved for companionship. Lots of people marry for companionship and not out of passion/desire. I think she did chose Will and I think if Will were still an option in the end she would still be with him but he was not an option. She could have moved on with someone new but to her Jem was part of Will, part of his soul which is partly why she loved Jem to begin with. Her love for Jem was always stemmed from Will's connection to him because she loved Will and you could not love Will without loving Jem. I hated the end...personally because I wanted her to say that she loved Will always and forever. I would rather have read about their wedding, Cecily's wedding, their children...their lives rather than endless talk about death and sorrow but maybe that was always what the series was about and maybe that is why both boys understood and were drawn to Tessa. It also opens doors for another afterlife series for Clare to write too.
Danielle, that's what I was hoping for Tessa to feel, that Jem is her last/closest connection she has left of Will(beside their children), because as you said loving Will is loving Jem and Jem is a part of Will, half of each other's heart and souls.But I didn't feel that from Tessa, instead she remembered the way she felt for the old Jem, her fiancé. Yes, it's been 130 year since Will...(it hurts to even write it!)...passed, and I can understand being immortal can be lonely. I am happy Tessa found Jem because I know Will would want that for them, He would want Jem to be with Tessa, he would rather have Jem with Tessa than anybody else. Yet...I think if Tessa whould have thought MORE of Will when she ran after Jem at the end, I would have felt...more relieved!!? For me it would have made a difference.
Sarah-and that is the way that she wanted Tessa to come across too which is what bothered me. She was with Jem only a few months in all reality before he became a silent brother yet she was married to Will and had a family with him and then it seemed like that was cheapened in the way she executed reuniting Jem and Tessa. She could have ended it with Jem and Tessa reuniting and worded it in a kinder way and I would have been happier but instead it just felt like Will had wasted his love on someone who never fully loved him...which is sad because up until that moment I believed she had loved him fully all along.
gotta say I never expected Jem to be so foward. I mean yes its 70 years after Wills death and yes he loved Tessa the whole time, but they hadnt seen each other for a long time and he expected for them to just continue where they left off, like 130years ago. Way to ease into things... It didnt fit his character, like it didnt fit Wills character to have sex with Tessa right after both of them thought Jem had passed away. In both situation I would have liked a little bit more, you know, hesitation, for both of them to be more shy, noble? Idk.
And yes I do agree, that for Tessa Jem is someone she can Will remember by. That point should have been made stronger. Because I do believe she always loved Jem as well, being with will, because he loved him. So yes I think in loving Jem, her love for Will will remain strong, because Jem remembers his love for Will as well.
gotta say I never expected Jem to be so foward. I mean yes its 70 years after Wills death and yes he loved Tessa the whole time, but they hadnt seen each other for a long time and he expected for them to just continue where they left off, like 130years ago. Way to ease into things... It didnt fit his character, like it didnt fit Wills character to have sex with Tessa right after both of them thought Jem had passed away. In both situation I would have liked a little bit more, you know, hesitation, for both of them to be more shy, noble? Idk.
And yes I do agree, that for Tessa Jem is someone she can Will remember by. That point should have been made stronger. Because I do believe she always loved Jem as well, being with will, because he loved him. So yes I think in loving Jem, her love for Will will remain strong, because Jem remembers his love for Will as well.
At first when I read the epilogue, my mind just could not process it. But now I have thought about it and read Ms Clare's comments and I have finally accepted the whole book.Well, Tessa mourned Will for years and was lonely for a long time. It is only natural that when she sees her previous love, Jem (in a healthier state, I might add), Tessa feels inclined to hold onto him. He knows how great Tessa's grief for Will is, he understands her. I kind of like the fact that she still loves Jem. It proves that the marriage was not a rash decision or a charity case. She didn't forget about the marriage in the blink of an eye, telling Jem before he left that she loved him still were not empty words, needing time before accepting Will's proposal was justified too.
Many may say "I did not expect that from Jem", but think about it, for years he wasn't allowed to be with Tessa and comfort her. He still loves her and time seems to have made him want her more. And now that he is free from the Brotherhood, he just couldn't resist telling her that he still felt the same about her. And anyways, Tessa was the one who ran back to him, he didn't finish his 'speech'.
I don't think Will would have minded, he would want the person he loves to be happy not mourn him forever. He knows that Jem will love her and care for her like he would.
However, reading the comments above, I do agree that she should have thought of Will near the end. It seems that when she sees Jem she forgets about him, which kind of hurts for a hardcore Wessa fan. In my opinion, Ms Clare wrote the epilogue to satisfy Jessa fans as well, and to hint on what will happen in CoHF. :)
What do you guys think will happen in CoHF that has something to do with Tessa or Jem?
I liked the ending but for some reason I feel like we might see them in the 6th book of The Mortal Instruments. Maybe Tessa knows how to help Jace, but we will never know til next year :(
even though i hope they are mentioned in CoHF I don't think so 'cause if you would read CoHF before "the infernal devices" you'd know the end allready...
Jasmine, it's been a couple of days now since I finished the book, and I'm still trying to process it all. I'll have to wait a little while before I pick another book(lol). But to easy my mind, that is the same conclusion I came up with and I will think of it that way! I don't know how big of a role Tessa and Jem will play in Dark Artifacts or COHF but it will feel...strange to read about Tessa without Will. Thanks you guys for sharing your thoughts! I was so upset, a bit happy and very sad.
I personally can understand perfectly well what she tried to accomplish and what she tried to do her. I always liked the unconventional and unique plots. My problem is that not once during the series did I feel like she loves them equally. During the first two books it was pretty clear to me that Will is 'the one' for Tessa. And then in the third book we have Clare telling us that it's an equal love over and over again. It just felt to me like Tessa was convincing herself and therefore Clare convincing us. Like she was trying way too hard too please everyone and that because of that the story suffered.
That being said, I am a fan of her and her writing but my respect for her is diminishing by the day. It is obvious now that she is just milking money out of the whole Shadowhunter world. When I read the dreadful news that she is planning 2 more trilogies... Almost couldn't believe it... .__.
I love the world she built, but it's time to move on already!
And in any case, with that all in mind, I just felt like she was forcing the happy ending on us to avoid the rage mails from this or that team or something. I was promised a bittersweet ending, but this didn't really seem like it.
That being said, I am a fan of her and her writing but my respect for her is diminishing by the day. It is obvious now that she is just milking money out of the whole Shadowhunter world. When I read the dreadful news that she is planning 2 more trilogies... Almost couldn't believe it... .__.
I love the world she built, but it's time to move on already!
And in any case, with that all in mind, I just felt like she was forcing the happy ending on us to avoid the rage mails from this or that team or something. I was promised a bittersweet ending, but this didn't really seem like it.
I like the ending and the epilogue. She loved them both so very much. Will had been gone a long time before Jem showed up Mortal. Jem was always searching for this cure and alludes to it in the book before the epilogue. I loved all of these characters so much I actually enjoyed seeing them all get their happy ending
Ms Clare wanted to serve us with the story with a different plot line with Disney (Princess-like) story, but by the end of the story, her happy ending for everyone is Disney's kind of story.
I'm a little miffed with her semi bashing Disney. By far those characters and storylines outshine hers.@ Tajana - I agree! It's very clear what Clare was TRYING to do. I didn't feel the equal love either. It's almost like she showed us Tessa's love for Will, but then told us her love for Jem. In my experience, showing is always a better tactic than telling in fiction.
Rose wrote: "I'm a little miffed with her semi bashing Disney. By far those characters and storylines outshine hers."I was not so sure what was her intention for us 'to have something different than Disney story'
I suppose she didn't mean to bash Disney whatsoever for she is smart enough to know that Disney is much more famous than her books.
She might have wanted to give us something different than our usual 'reading stuff' but unfortunately, her happy end for all has blown that apart... ;)
Rose wrote: "I'm a little miffed with her semi bashing Disney. By far those characters and storylines outshine hers.@ Tajana - I agree! It's very clear what Clare was TRYING to do. I didn't feel the equal lov..."
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. Throughout the whole series it's always been about Tessa's love for Will. You could see that she loved Jem too but it wasn't like a major theme to me. Maybe it's just me or something cause I'm definitely character biased (WILL <3)
I guess that's why the epilogue felt like a huge shock to me...
The ending was great, the epilogue was terrible.
I literally have no idea how to put my words/feelings for the book into sentences. I cried a LOT during it though!
guys what do you think will happen in CoHF since apparently that's when Jem finds his cure. i reckon Clary/Jace/Isabelle/Magnus/Alec/Simon are somehow involved since Jem says let me tell you idk involving Fairchilds, Herondales and Lightwoods etc in the epilouge. (i can't really remember right now - but it's something along those lines)
Mostly TMI characters are going to find Jem's cure. I'm really excited for CoHF because Clare left bits of cliff hedgers in CP2. I think, it's going to be cool how everything comes together.
Faria wrote: "Just want to see what you guys have to say. :)I'll say mine later, (still trying to get over the god damn ending)"
same reaction xD
zachsgirl wrote: "Faria wrote: "Just want to see what you guys have to say. :)I'll say mine later, (still trying to get over the god damn ending)"
same reaction xD"
it's impossible to get over, omfg it's almost a month since i read it and arghhhhhh
OMFG JEM IS TECHNICALLY RELATED TO JACE OMFG I WONDER IF THAT'S HOW JEM FINDS THE CURE BECAUSE MAGNUS IS ALWAYS HINTING THE WILL/JEM PARABATI BOND AND THEN THEY FIGURE OUT WHO BROTHER ZACHARIAH IS AND THEN BAM THE HEAVENLY FIRE LEAVES JACE AND IT'S RELATED TO JEM'S CUREAnd Tessa is Jace's great great great great grwat grandmother AND JACE DOESN'T KNOW
If Holly Black dubbed a live triangle the ‘The Kobayashi Maru’, then I think to solve it is to cheat, what Cassandra probably did. I mean, I cried when Jem died and again when I read of Will's death (yeah, was my cry a river over books week) and then everything was perfect at the end. Too perfect? Maybe. But who needs realistic things in books. Honestly, if you are still in love with someone after over 100 years, that in itself is a wonder. Usually you grow up and out of a love, otherwise you all would be still in love with your kindergarten-crush.
And honestly: who wanted to have the scene like: 'hey, I am not a silent brother anymore.' - 'Cool. What are your plans?' - 'Don't know yet' - 'Let me know when you have an idea. I might know someone to help you. Give me your mobile number.' - 'Yes, let's stay in contact.' ... And that were the famous last words.
So, yes, I love the end as it satisfies my romantic soul.
I Loved the book and I Loved the ending.
Faria wrote: "Laura wrote: "Upon further reflection and reading other's comments on other threads I have to agree that it was a bit too "perfect." Tessa shouldn't have been able to have her cake and eat it too...."dont say that!!! Tess is going to live forever. like Magnus Bane. She always loved Will, but she always loved Jem. She can't spend her entire life alone just because Will died. he would have wanted her to be happy... if u lived forever, u would probably love more than one person.
Nurlely wrote: "Franzi wrote: "PS: is there someone who has scanned the family tree? I have only the ebook version and its too small to read. :( "I suppose it will be posted on Cassie's tumblr. Just be patient i..."
oh the family tree is really interesting... maybe if u googled it u could find a pic?
I actually enjoyed the epilogue. The whole point was that she loved them both. She had her life with Will, and then 70 years later, she starts her life with another. Just like when a widow, widower get remarried, though Tessa had much longer to wait.
omg i was just thinking: the family tree will be sooooo messed up if Tess has kids with Jem. (Cos the new series is about a Carstairs, right?) but then, maybe she won't.
I wonder if we will get any idea of what comes of Jem and Tessa in TDA.
The epilogue was so depressing!! I cried when i realized Will died, i mean i KNEW Will was going to die SOMEDAY but i didn't want her to include it in the book!! Cassandra should write a novella about the adventures Tessa and Will goes on or something!! I want to hear more of them! I felt it was weird how Tessa gets both Will and Jem in the end...... And that she probably had kids with Jem too since the TDA series the main character is a Cairstairs..... unless Jem had a secret affair with someone ELSE!!! No, i just can't imagine him doing that... so where DID Emma Carstairs come from......hmmmmmm....... OHHH!!! ANYONE GOING TO SEE THE MORTAL INSTRUMENTS MOVIE THAT"S COMING OUT?!?!?! I AM!!!!!!!! Wow, i just realized how off track i got...ANYWAY......back to CP2!!! I wonder who Tessa likes better, Will or Jem, since in the book it only says that she loved BOTH of them. I hope she likes Will better!! WILL HERONDALE ALL THE WAYYY!!!!!! <3
i think we all need to remember the unusual-ness (is that a word ??) of this love triangle. i think this quote says it all: *its tessa* "...you merged your souls when you were both children. I could not have loved Will so much if I had not loved you as well. And I could not love you as I do if I had not loved Will as I did." tessa loved them both because jem and will's souls were linked in such a powerful way. jessa shippers and wessa shippers alike need to remember this in my opinion.
I was always Team Jem so I like the epilogue. The ending doesn't seem fair, she ends up with both of them. I feel like Cassandra Clare did that so both sides would be happy. Also, I feel like slut-shaming Tessa but...
I thought it was the perfect ending. Tessa loved them both. She married Will and was with him when he died of old age. I was sobbing when I read that part...and then several pages later I was crying tears of happiness because she had a second chance with Jem. She didn't get to have her cake and eat it too. She is going to have to witness Jem aging and passing, too eventually. I loved this trilogy.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Anyways, I was very happy for Tessa and Will. I actually cried when I read that they named their first child James. I was also crying when Jem (as Brother Zacariah) played the violin for Will before he died. That was my favorite part in the book. It was so heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time.
I always thought that living forever would be so wonderful and worthwhile. It was only after finishing this book that I realized how painful it could be when you're the only one immortal.