Complaint Department discussion
What I really hate about...
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What I really hate in m/m romance stories
JustJen wrote: "It did sound like facts being told at times! I think it really affected my ability to connect with the characters, as it felt like I was looking in rather than being in the story, if that makes se..."It puts you at a distance from the characters, doesn't it. I find I care less about the characters in such books and they aren't as enjoyable to read.
Wonder what makes an author decide to write in such a style. Is that just what comes naturally, or did they do it purposefully? IMO, the book would have been rated much higher, had it been written differently.
JustJen wrote: "Here is a complaint that would apply to any genre. I recently read a story that I was told classifies as distant third person present tense point of view. Every description was written as Michael..."I have Jen and it annoys the pants off me. It puts me out of kilter with the story. No likee either!
I think of it as omniscient, stalker-serial killer pov. Really not into those.
LOL. I admit I was hearing the dude from the Crying Game - "It puts the lotion on its skin!" :D
JustJen wrote: "LOL. I admit I was hearing the dude from the Crying Game - "It puts the lotion on its skin!" :D"Um, that would be Silence of the Lambs. Crying Game was the one about the MtF trans reveal...
That's right! Thanks for setting my memories straight. :D
Fangtasia wrote: "JustJen wrote: "LOL. I admit I was hearing the dude from the Crying Game - "It puts the lotion on its skin!" :D"Um, that would be Silence of the Lambs. Crying Game was the one about the MtF tran..."
Oh thank you. It's been a while, but really didn't remember that in Crying at all.
Hi everyone,I’ve just dropped by after a lengthy absence and saw this discussion about the use of third person present tense POV.
The topic is rather timely as this week I put aside a third person past tense short novella at about the halfway mark. I got tired of the author's style of telling the story to my face in rat-a-tat commentary delivery, instead of painting the scenes to allure and absorb my senses. Pity because the plot was ok.
I’m not in favour of third person POV because, in my opinion, so much of it is written in a soul-less, distanced deadpan manner. On the other hand, good first person POV invites all sorts of energetic, emotional participation, carrying the reader on a coaster ride. Past tense is my primary choice as with most writers.
However, I also like reading and have written a few shorts in first person present tense. I consider, given the right setting and choices of words, this device can add a sense of immediacy and action, thereby involving the reader’s presence in the scene in real time. Sometimes, I feel the repeated use of the past tense suffix ‘ed’ can introduce a tired or ageing feel, reducing readership enjoyment.
Everyone's got their preference when it comes to POV and tense. I don't mind first person POV (most of the series I've enjoyed are in first person) but the tense used does affect what I'm willing to read. Present tense is harder to follow and I feel it's off putting - forcing me to be further back from the action. This may be intentional (making the reader more of an observer of the action than allowing the reader into the action), of course, but it makes the book harder, and less enjoyable, to read.
I really dislike the wash cloth business. It is irritating that in nearly all the m/m books I have read after sex comes the wash cloth. It is boring. Do we really need to know? We are never told when the characters go to the toilet, so why do we need to be told about the wash cloth constantly. So tedious.
Ije the TweetAway Queen wrote: "I really dislike the wash cloth business. It is irritating that in nearly all the m/m books I have read after sex comes the wash cloth. It is boring. Do we really need to know? We are never told wh..."Following upon that, 'cumrag ' or various other spellings. Picture some sharply creased and starched old T-shirt, cannot be comfortable yet always used to show the other man cares.
Ije the TweetAway Queen wrote: "I really dislike the wash cloth business. It is irritating that in nearly all the m/m books I have read after sex comes the wash cloth. It is boring. Do we really need to know? We are never told wh..."Lol - my thoughts exactly...
Averin wrote: "Ije the TweetAway Queen wrote: "I really dislike the wash cloth business..."Wash cloth? Heck when I let loose I need a big towel to sop it all up!
:::grin:::
…but true :-)
Boyd wrote: "Wash cloth? Heck when I let loose I need a big towel to sop it all up!:::grin:::
…but true :-)"
Sadist, torturing me with that notion as I head for bed.
I loathe and despise the work of anyone who undertakes to write a story set in a time other than now and then disregards the inconvenient historical facts because she could not be bothered to do a 2
It's one thing to play around with characters from someone else's imagination; quite another to play with the actual lives/careers/families of real people. I have no clue why hockey, instead of baseball or soccer, it just is.
Fangtasia wrote: "Roger wrote: "There's hockey fanfic!? Why?"Heart in Hand"
Okay, so I clicked the link which took me to GR about the book, and though I never watch hockey, the book sounded intriguing. Except the supposed AMZ link leads nowhere. Well, not quite nowhere since a "heart in hand" AMZ search includes some Care Bear garbage as part of the results.
Eventually I found the book on Archive of Our Own. Just in case someone (like moi) wants to give fanfic about hockey a try.
Eric
Averin wrote: "It's one thing to play around with characters from someone else's imagination; quite another to play with the actual lives/careers/families of real people. I have no clue why hockey, instead of bas..."[edit] - I thought we were talking about writing slash fic featuring real people/celebrities? No?
I like hockey stories. I am avidly following Stephani Hecht's Blue Line Hockey series.
Ok, like a song stuck in my head, now I simply cannot erase the thought of Sid Crosby in a gay relationship out of my mind.
I think the washcloth is a way of showing that one guy cares for the other. I myself prefer bold authors who make the MC's lick it or lap it away... a sweaty t-shirt is also a good alternative option, seems more organic...
JustJen wrote: "Ok, like a song stuck in my head, now I simply cannot erase the thought of Sid Crosby in a gay relationship out of my mind."brainworm?
Lori wrote: "Averin wrote: "It's one thing to play around with characters from someone else's imagination; quite another to play with the actual lives/careers/families of real people. I have no clue why hockey,..."Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, Averin. Bad, bad, bad!
For letting me know that there are yet more Stephani Hecht books out there (I love her writing) that are grossly over-priced and therefore unbuyable (if that's a word) for me.
According to AMZ the first Blue Line book(let) is 85 pages long and costs $3.99. That's the equivalent of paying a smidge over $14 for an ordinary mainstream paperback (in terms of length). Can't do it...much to my regret. So I'll just wish her success, and wish in vain that ebook publishers would start pricing books rationally.
Oops. End of rant. {g)
Eric
Gabbo wrote: "I think the washcloth is a way of showing that one guy cares for the other. I myself prefer bold authors who make the MC's lick it or lap it away... a sweaty t-shirt is also a good alternative opti..."Seems more authentic.
Organic is the way to go these days. :DAnd that is a bit pricey, Eric. Tis why I love lending/borrowing so much.
Definite brainworm, Averin. :)
what's authentic, the T-shirt, the licking or the lapping? ahhahaahhaa.
I prefer the licking, or is it the lapping? Or, why not both? :)
Eric Alan wrote: "For letting me know that there are yet more Stephani Hecht books out there (I love her writing) that are grossly over-priced and therefore unbuyable (if that's a word) for me."One of the downsides of e-books.
Gabbo wrote: "I think the washcloth is a way of showing that one guy cares for the other. I myself prefer bold authors who make the MC's lick it or lap it away... a sweaty t-shirt is also a good alternative opti..."And, acknowledging the risk of starting a sh*t storm with this comment, ^^^this^^^ is why I love to read m/m romance written by gay men.
It feels much more authentic when it's written by somebody who's most likely experienced what they're writing about. Even the most out-there paranormal feels more believable if the romance and sex scenes are realistic.
What truly kills me is reading an anal sex scene written by someone who has clearly never done it. Because, come on, that is not a gender-specific sex act. Anybody can do it. I mean, research, right?
Rant over, carry on.
Fangtasia wrote: "What truly kills me is reading an anal sex scene written by someone who has clearly never done it. Because, come on, that is not a gender-specific sex act. Anybody can do it. I mean, research, right?"Well of course heterosexual couples do perform anal sex but if the woman is the recipient she has no way of knowing how it feels to have a prostate stimulated.
So there is more to it. The top has to be proficient in his technique so that he can make sure his penis is doing the job of rubbing the prostate in the best way possible to please his receptive partner.
The best way I ever heard it stated so that women paid close attention to this major difference was some one who told an online forum consisting of mostly women, "What if you had a clitoris in your ass?"
As for wash cloths they are far too small to soak up our ejaculate. Partner and I definitely need a cum towel. When I read about men using washcloths I think poor fellows must be practically impotent.
Still there is a lot to be said for consuming the tasty essence de l'homme.
Preston wrote: "Well of course heterosexual couples do perform anal sex but if the woman is the recipient she has no way of knowing how it feels to have a prostate stimulated..."I know, and agree on that. We have no idea how it feels to penetrate, either. Which is why I prefer to read m/m romance written by gay men.
That said, there are many talented women writing believable m/m romance. Kudos to them for doing the research, and getting it right.
What bothers me to no end is reading an m/m romance written by a woman in which the sex scenes clearly show that 1. she's never had anal, and 2. she didn't do the due diligence of research to write on a subject that was completely alien to her. Sometimes there's even a kind of disgust with the act, that comes through the writing. And that's when I would like to strangle the author with my bare hands.
Preston wrote: "What if you had a clitoris in your ass?"
For me, it's good enough as is. If that would be how it would feel, I'd hardly ever do anything but anal. ;-D
On the quantity of ejaculate, I believe the average is 2 tablespoons, with variations between men and also depending on time lapsed between ejaculations. Now, I do agree that with two men producing the stuff, a towel most probably does the clean up job better. It just seems to go everywhere!
I just love this: the tasty essence de l'homme. It needs to be bottled!
Gabbo wrote: "I just love this: the tasty essence de l'homme. It needs to be bottled!"In't that Chanel No.69 ?
After all the promotion I did on his behalf in "The Persian Boy" story in Felixitations I'd hoped for better from the youngest Wales, but he came around the corner, saw me, thought,"Oh no!" and fled…
I'm not the biggest fan of kids in MM... Sometimes it can be okay. But normally kids aren't my thing when reading an MM. Unless it's at the end of a book.
Roger wrote: "After all the promotion I did on his behalf in "The Persian Boy" story in Felixitations I'd hoped for better from the youngest Wales, but he came around the corner, saw me, thought,"Oh no!" and fle..."I think he looks quite good and comfortably dressed. What's wrong? Or is my ace brain just not picking up the same signals others do?
Roger wrote: "After all the promotion I did on his behalf in "The Persian Boy" story in Felixitations I'd hoped for better from the youngest Wales, but he came around the corner, saw me, thought,"Oh no!" and fle..."Not only that but in that photo of yours he is wearing leisurely, tan hushpuppies with jeans instead of tan chinos. How gauche.
I think he looks much better in a hat and necklace with his boyfriends getting all touchy feely.
The guy on the left either has too many fingers or they are holding hands
Actually he looks good as Borg too. He could replace Seven of Nine.
I hate the fact that the author instantly confines the sexual preference of the character which then further establishes his/her mindset. As if being a top/bottom immediately establishes the power or who has the upper hand. It reinforces cultural stereotypes
Akhil wrote: "I hate the fact that the author instantly confines the sexual preference of the character which then further establishes his/her mindset. As if being a top/bottom immediately establishes the power ..."Agree with this 100%. In real life, I believe most gay guys are fine with either. And it most definitely has not much to do with the power dynamics in the relationship.
I think it's just a carry-over of gender roles from het romance. Which defeats the whole purpose of reading m/m, because it's the inequality I got tired of reading about and why I've practically stopped reading m/f romance.
Fangtasia wrote: "Akhil wrote: "I hate the fact that the author instantly confines the sexual preference of the character which then further establishes his/her mindset. As if being a top/bottom immediately establis..."I agree with both Fangtasia and Akhil, it's just a wrong stereotype. One of my favorite books is Faerie Bound and in this BDSM story the master bottoms most of the time and is still in control of the situation. So take that for being a weak passive partner hahahaha.
Akhil wrote: "I hate the fact that the author instantly confines the sexual preference of the character which then further establishes his/her mindset. As if being a top/bottom immediately establishes the power ..."And I agree, and with Fangtasia. Even writing contemporary scenes, I'm constantly reminded my sexuality came to the fore in an era when no one had even thought of, let alone coined the terms, and certainly didn't wan to to confine anyone to one state of mind or the other. Preferences arose naturally if there was even a preference to exhibit.
Oh, and I agree with anything Gabbo says… :))
Complaint Department
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It really is. I just find first person easier and more emotional at times. I like hearing what inside the characters heads. I especially love 1st person from the two MC's. Like Houseboat on the Nile. :)