1984
discussion
A question on books in school
Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual.
Papaphilly wrote: "What happens if the book is misunderstood? farenheit 451 was taught as an allegory of government censorship fro as long as I can remember and yet it is really about a warning about TV and its corrosive effects...."Well when the government controls and regulates what is on TV and who can own a TV station and how many a company can own...I can't see the difference. To be honest I thought the book was about censorship of books as well. He was burning books....tv was free to watch. TV replaced books. Books were feared. TV was normal and made everyone feel safe. Well I think in the case of Fahrenheit 451 you can hold both ideas at the same time. They don't contradict each other.
"If parent decides they do not want their child to read a certain book or watch a certain TV show, that is that parents right, I agree. How about when that parent does not want their child to read a certain book that is taught in school?"
Well my parents did that when I was a kid. My parents asked that when they got to a certain chapter i be excused from the class and the test.
The child belongs to the parents. The public education is a public service but should not be tyrannical.
Was i damaged because i didn't take this one class/chapter. No.
Would it had been good for me to take the class. No. Because as a child I believe what my parents taught me about this subject and i would have been asked to answer differently and against my beliefs that was a theory of someone elses beliefs. I may not at that age had the ability to check my teachers answers or to hold a debate with her or my fellow peers. Parents are the primary guardians for that reason.
If I had a child in school I would definitely not want them to be indoctrinated with "global warming/ reverse that/ climate change. I don't think it is anymore scientific than to ask the Catholic church if the world is flat or round in the 1400's. Just because all Catholics and then some that didn't want to burn at the stake, agreed that the earth was flat didn't make it so.
If your child was going to a class that taught the earth was flat and your child was going to have to give reasons why it was believing that it was round you might just say to the teacher i would rather Johnny not be in your class.
Cosmic wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "What happens if the book is misunderstood? farenheit 451 was taught as an allegory of government censorship fro as long as I can remember and yet it is really about a warning abo..."Fair enough with your school book answer. Using you as an example, is it OK for your parents to want the book removed because they did not want the book read at all? How about if they did not want you to learn about Darwinism or comparative religion? What would have happened if the school refused your parents request? Would they have pulled you out of school or allow you to fail that particular test?
I am not playing gotcha, I am trying to find where your boundaries lay.
Unlike many, I believe that parents do have to understand that public education does have policies that they will not like. Unlike others, I also believe that it is wrong to dismiss out of hand a parents belief system just because they do not fit the norm. I do not believe books should be removed because a parent complains, but I also understand that certain parents are not going to be happy.
Papaphilly wrote: "Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual."
Without guns you would not be enjoying the freedom that you have in this country. To believe other wise you needd to rip out the chapter on the Revolutionary War.
Cosmic wrote: "E.D. wrote: "What the hell do sunspots have to do with terrestrial climate?"http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/...
http://www.nap.edu/catalog/13519/the-......"
My dear Cosmic,
The only thing you've educated me about is the level of your inability to comprehend what you read and then ignorantly regurgitate.
Google is a tool. You are no craftsman.
E.D. wrote: " My dear Cosmic,The only thing you've educated me about is the level of your inability to comprehend what you read and then ignorantly regurgitate.
Google is a tool. You are no craftsman. "
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
Since I am in the company of a genius please tell me how did the glaciers form? What caused the ice age or the little ice age? How come it melted? How long did that take....millions of years? What action given by men that created this climate change? Well if it wasn't men what was it?
When you have a pot of water on the stove what gets hot first....the eye of the stove or the water?
If the sun is the eye of the stove and the earth and the galaxy the water then the earth absorbs some of that energy? If you were to turn that eye off would the pot of water still sitting on that eye immediately cool? Would their possibly be some time delay before that energy, that had been put into the water, for it to cool? Might it keep it hot longer that the eye that you turned off? I think that is kind the definition of potential or stored energy.
So we have in our small time here on earth enjoyed a solar maximum. There has been a lot of solar activity on the sun. When I was in elementary school I learned that all life comes from the sun and without the sun we would have no life here on earth. It wasn't explained very well but in elementary school I accepted this as fact. Maybe you got some kind of different instructions that made you come up with a totally different algorithm for how the earth and the sun works together. Enlighten me please.
I was also told that there exists a magnetic field around the earth that protected but was also influenced by the sun. Much like a generator.
To imagine that your elementary school failed to teach you this is hard for me to believe. But it is even harder to imagine that after you reached adulthood you believe in superman...and that WE not the sun are all powerful.
What is happening between the sun and the earth is not instantaneous. So when we saw the rise in temperature this was the stored energy from the sun. But as the sun has started to become less active the earth has also reponded and will continue to respond...because we have a law called "Cause and Effect". And we are having unprecedented winters and weather conditions.
Just a little eye candy for you.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=m...
These are people who have lived their life time in this area but they didn't expect this. Why not? Where were they when the teacher went over glaciers? Was their some pieces of information missing in our textbooks so we could not make sense of what we were being told? Did we not get the piece that said, "your weather is directly influenced by the sun?" And if you didn't know that you might buy a house next to a lake in Minnesota during this lowest solar activity we have ever had in our life time.
Papaphilly wrote: "Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual."
You seem to need a few more hints. Here's a heavy-handed one:
"_________ _____ grows out of the barrel of a gun." -- MZ
My dear Cosmic,Perhaps, while you're dabbling around the fringes of Heliophysics, you might consider the relationship of atmospheric chemistry and solar radiations (yes, there are a number of them). This might lead you to question not only how time and charged particles effect and change chemical compounds...but,....(oh my goodness)...how certain chemicals managed to find themselves in the upper stratosphere.
You might then consider other disciplines such as vulcanism and plate tectonics, and their effects on climate patterns over time.
You might even see how foolish it is to think fewer sunspots make the sun radiate more or less heat, or whatever it is you're trying to postulate.
But you'll probably stick with "sun hot...ice melt".
Mkfs wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual."
You seem to need a few more h..."
Very good!
This reminds me of Pearl S Bucks two books My Several Worlds
And
Dragon Seed
Because the Christian missionaries had a profound influence on bring about the communist revolution. They couldn't teach Chinese history because it was so entwined with Confucius, which they considered a foreign religion. As a result they taught the Chinese children out of textbooks that taught the Chinese about the American Revolution and American history.
As a result the leader that the US supported did not understand the peasants. He tried to force the Chinese peasants to accept western culture. As a result he lost the peasants to the Cultural Revolution.
So it matters what children are taught. I am definitely not telling the whole story as Pearl does such a better job than I could.
By the way she was homeschooled. She also had a teacher that taught her Confucianism. Her parents did not see that it was contradictory to Christianity. That was not normal,but it gave he insight into the culture that many Westerners did not have.
The parents should have pulled their kid out of those schools.
E.D. wrote: "You might even see how foolish it is to think fewer sunspots make the sun radiate more or less heat, or whatever it is you're trying to postulate."It may be foolish, but it is an area of active research in climate modeling. Varying levels of solar activity (or "fewer sunspots", if you prefer) are considered to have a non-negligble effect on terrestrial climate.
E.D. wrote: "My dear Cosmic,Perhaps, while you're dabbling around the fringes of Heliophysics, you might consider the relationship of atmospheric chemistry and solar radiations (yes, there are a number of the..."
You didn't answer my questions!
Mkfs wrote: "E.D. wrote: "You might even see how foolish it is to think fewer sunspots make the sun radiate more or less heat, or whatever it is you're trying to postulate."It may be foolish, but it is an are..."
It's been actively researched for quite a long time now. And dismissed as negligible. (I'm assuming you meant that rather than non-negligible)
Solar activity reflects the sun's magnetic state (sunspots, flares, CMEs) and has great effects on "space weather", but virtually none on Earth's. Again, atmospheric chemistry is considered the driving force. A model based on unconfirmed data is speculative at best.
E.D. wrote: "And dismissed as negligible."Citation, as they say, needed. Not that I am concerned one way or the other; I simply haven't encountered an actual dismissal.
Papaphilly wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "What happens if the book is misunderstood? farenheit 451 was taught as an allegory of government censorship fro as long as I can remember and yet it is really abou..."Well the chapter in the book was about evolution. I would be tested on it. My parents elected for me to skip that chapter. I sat outside the class that period for the week.
My parents would not have worried about a book in the library on the subject. They did not try to take care of other parents children.
One time my parents made me return a book to the school library because they did not approve of it. It was Catch-22. They didn't trybto get it removed from the library though.
My parents eventually did decide to send me to a private Christian school. It worked better for me because everyone there was very committed to learning. But school in general did not provide me much because when i got out i could only produce grades not skills. I was very disappointed. I thought I would go to college...but eventually picked different path that I am satisfied with. I work hard to be self taught.
Since I Unschooled my children I did a lot of censorship of their media. I got rid of the TV when oldest was 2. I bought tape players and checked out books on tape for my kids....especially classics.
There was a time when I met a homeschool family that i thought was the "perfect family". I wanted to adopt their program. One of the things they did not believe in was fantasy fiction....especially books likeThe Wonderful Wizard of Oz...even The Chronicles of Narnia
They explained their position on it. I had never read The Wonderful Wizard of Oz but certainly didn't want to fill my kids head up with witches and spells and sorcerers. So I was greatful for the advice and moved on.
Then i let my two boys spend the night at a friend's house. She read The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to my sons. My oldest said he really liked it. I wasn't very happy about it. It rocked my world a little bit. So i decided that i would also read the book to them. At least then i could give my point of view.
Well after reading the The Wonderful Wizard of Oz I also loved it. I decided my homeschool family was too ridgid for me. I ended up reading them a lot from that series!
Being a parent like being a child is a work in progress.
Fortunately i have had my world rocked a lot and i became more flexible and broader minded. My children helped me in that way! Sometimes adults have too.
Cosmic wrote: "E.D. wrote: "My dear Cosmic,Perhaps, while you're dabbling around the fringes of Heliophysics, you might consider the relationship of atmospheric chemistry and solar radiations (yes, there are a ..."
My dear Cosmic,
Reading and comprehension. I did answer your "questions". You don't, or don't want to, see the connections.
Here, I'll simplify: A lot of water freezes and stays frozen. Glacier. Glacier melts. A lot of water stays water. And sunspots, or a lack thereof, don't have a damn thing to do with either.
The Sun is a star, not a hotplate.
E.D. wrote: "I'll simplify: A lot of water freezes and stays frozen. Glacier. Glacier melts. A lot of water stays water. And sunspots, or a lack thereof, don't have a damn thing to do with either.The Sun is a star, not a hotplate. ..."
Wow, you must have gone to the same stupid school I did.
But hear is a hint:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scien...
E.D. you are not scientific enough for me. I expected genius.
Mkfs wrote: "E.D. wrote: "And dismissed as negligible."Citation, as they say, needed. Not that I am concerned one way or the other; I simply haven't encountered an actual dismissal."
As I said, luminance variations have been studied for a long time. The general consensus is that spots diminish...faculae increase. In essence, they balance each other out. The Sun's output remains relatively stable...Earth conditions are, and have been, what changes.
NASA's website section on Heliophysics is very good. I would only say that because some doctors might research a connection between male colonoscopy and latent homosexuality, the general consensus among medical professionals would be dismissive. :}
Mkfs wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual."
You seem to need a few more hints. Here's a heavy-handed one:
"_________ _____ grows out of the barrel of a gun." -- MZ
"
Dang, mkfs, I gotta hand it to you for patience and persistence. I have hardly any, which, coupled with the malign influence of my Inner Sociopath, is why I tend to throw bombs and then run.
Anyway... I thought maybe you could shed light on this observation/question I've got. Why is it that some people have to have everything spelled out for them? They seem to be an actual personality type, or something. You can always spot them on movie boards where they are whining like a worn-out water pump, about some movie where everything didn't get "Explained" at the end. I'm not, like, trying to throw a rock here (why waste a good rock...) - I'm genuinely curious whether the sikes haven't identified this trait and categorized it somehow - you know, like in one of those "Personality Inventories" they subject you to at work, or something ?? (I don't dare ask a shrink; my last one committed suicide... .)
fsck
E.D. wrote: "NASA's website section on Heliophysics is very good. "Er, quite. And even NASA says The connection between solar activity and terrestrial climate is an area of on-going research. (section on Maunder Minimum). That's more of a "we don't completely know" than a "dismissed as utter foolishness".
Duane wrote: "Why is it that some people have to have everything spelled out for them? They seem to be an actual personality type, or something."Can't say for sure. Strikes me as the same sort of person that "outs" a business doing them a favor (a store that doesn't card teenagers, a bar that lets you smoke, a restaurant whose night staff will comp your dessert) on social media or in a blogpost, thereby ruining it for the rest of us who enjoyed the place and knew enough to keep it word-of-mouth only.
E.D. wrote: "As I said, luminance variations have been studied for a long time.How long is a long time? Billions of years? A few decades? A few years? Who did the study? Was it carried out scientifically?
Mkfs says:"Citation, as they say, needed. Not that I am concerned one way or the other; I simply haven't encountered an actual dismissal."
Your answers are opinions and do not carry much weight, unless it is your intention to practice writing science fiction for us.
Cosmic wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "What happens if the book is misunderstood? farenheit 451 was taught as an allegory of government censorship fro as long as I can remember and ye..."Thank you for the answer. Your parents did not carry their agenda to to other students. I find your answer much more intriguing about The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and your children. As I noted parents have the right to limit their children's reading habits. What I find so interesting is that you read the book to see what it is about and then changed your mind. That does not happen often in today's world.
Mkfs wrote: "E.D. wrote: "And dismissed as negligible."Citation, as they say, needed. Not that I am concerned one way or the other; I simply haven't encountered an actual dismissal."
There has not been a dismissal except by the wing nuts on both ends of the spectrum. The pro-global warming wing nuts dismiss it outright and the anti-global warming wing nuts point and say "see". What they have in common is that they both say more study is needed and give us more money for the studies.
Mkfs wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Mkfs wrote: "What the hell do guns have to do with individualism?"Nothing, but it sounds cool when you are trying to pretend to be intellectual."
You seem to need a few more h..."
I understood the quote, but missed your intention. My mistake.
E.D. wrote: "NASA's website section on Heliophysics is very good ..."I wished you would have fleshed your point out a little bit more, but you are right! There is some good stuff here.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/...
But also it is important to note that science is about getting funding. And that is another form of censorship.
Also when we were in elementary school we learned that the Aztecs worshipped the sun. But the High Priest used the information to manipulate the people.
I had a history teacher tell our class that the reason we study history is because it repeats itself. If there was another Maunder Minimum and they didn't warn people but kept that information guarded....what could that mean for strategic time to go to war or create revolutions?
There was a Russian that actually created a correlation between solar minimums and maximums and civil unrest.
I don't think that this is something new as there has been movies with similar themes...
The movie "The Knowing" comes to mind.
A. L. Tchijevsky, a Russian professor of Astronomy and Biological Physics, noticed during World War I that particularly severe battles followed solar flares. Since the sunspots were in a peak period during 1916-17, no doubt the war and its various battles were heavily stimulated by the energies which are boiling off the Sun. Intrigued by the connection of human behavior to solar physics, Tchijevsky constructed an "Index of Mass Human Excitability". He compiled the histories of 72 countries from 500 BC to 1922 AD to provide a strong database to articulate his correlations. After rating the most significant events, Tchijevsky found that fully 80% of the most significant human events, mostly related to war and violence, occurred during the 5 years or so of maximum sunspot activity.
Tchijevsky went on to observe that the 1917 Russian Revolution occurred during the height of Sunspot Cycle. Unfortunately, this was one of science’s most costly observations, it earned Tchijevsky almost 30 years in Soviet prisons because his theory challenged "Marxist dialectics".
The "solar" connection to terrestrial events has been studied ever since then, but most of the focus has been on the sun itself or on the impact of the cycle on the climate, weather, agriculture, commodity markets, and other non-human phenomenon. Awareness of the human impact, which is far more significant than the well known impact of the Full Moon, has remained highly retarded. Modern humans, unlike the ancient cultures of Egypt, Sumer, Bhararti, Maya, and China, are highly reluctant to admit that their collective behavior is influenced strongly by the Sun. They prefer to believe that reason rules their societies.
I asked E.D. how long we had been studying space weather.I got my answer here:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/...
Above: Global measurements of solar wind pressure by Ulysses. Green curves trace the solar wind in 1992-1998, while blue curves denote lower pressure winds in 2004-2008. [Larger image]
Curiously, the speed of the million mph solar wind hasn't decreased much—only 3%. The change in pressure comes mainly from reductions in temperature and density. The solar wind is 13% cooler and 20% less dense.
"What we're seeing is a long term trend, a steady decrease in pressure that began sometime in the mid-1990s," explains Arik Posner, NASA's Ulysses Program Scientist in Washington DC.
How unusual is this event?
"It's hard to say. We've only been monitoring solar wind since the early years of the Space Age—from the early 60s to the present," says Posner. "Over that period of time, it's unique. How the event stands out over centuries or millennia, however, is anybody's guess. We don't have data going back that far."
Okie doke. I'm going to rant in the name of brevity and Duaneishism, as I have neither the time or inclination to prepare a "paper" for those I respect (Mkfs) or those I see as misguided.As I have concluded from researching far too many science articles and academic studies for a professional understanding of Heliophysics, most related scientists find the variance in irradiance of 0.1% between maximum and minimum solar activity--as measured by probes and satellites designed to do so--to be too small to be a factor of consequence in our current global warming.
I phrased that as "dismissed as negligible". (See:Why NASA keeps an eye on irradiance.)
Some scientists in the field (such as Hathaway) hope to prove differently. They have yet to do so. But, hey, somebody needs to prove The Maunder Minimum caused that Little Ice Age all by itself (major volcanic eruptions be damned). Nothing wrong with basic research.
Do I see neglecting the chemistry as foolish. Yep. Do I see that global temps have risen during past and present maximums and minimums? Yep. Do I know that Jesus thinks Cosmic is precious? Yep. And that...is all that really matters.
Because...glaciers. And ideology.
I believe that this thread was originally about censorship. I have enjoyed the divergent topics that we have talked about as well. But to bring it back to censorship i thought this was very interesting:https://climatesanity.wordpress.com/2...
So how do you know E.D that you have researched rather than just digested the party line.
I guess if there are no other view points expressed then it probably isn't scientific.
Cosmic wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "What happens if the book is misunderstood? farenheit 451 was taught as an allegory of government censorship fro as long as I can remember and yet it is really about a warning abo..."In other words, your parents brainwashed you.
Geoffrey wrote: "In other words, your parents brainwashed you...."Definition of "Brainwash":
"To make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure:"
No I didn't belong to the state. I had parents. We have the right in this country to an education. But we also have the freedom of religion. I adopted my parents beliefs. The school had a radically different belief system that they wish through testing to systematically and often forcibly pressure me to adopt.
I would say school tried to and probably often did, through compulsory education brainwash me. I wish my parents would have just said, "No."
"We don't need no education" The Wall - Pink Floyd
I resisted as much as I could.
Looks like you were very compliant with your "handlers".
Now you have me on a roll...I like this definition of Brainwash too:
brain·wash·ing
\ˈbrān-ˌwȯ-shiŋ, -ˌwä-\
noun
1 :a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 :persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship
brain·wash·ing\ˈbrān-ˌwȯ-shiŋ, -ˌwä-\
noun
1 :a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 :persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship
Why do we need to sell people on "climate change?"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polit...
Cosmic wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "In other words, your parents brainwashed you...."Definition of "Brainwash":
"To make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure:..."
No one brainwashed me, nor attempted to do so. I just had the intelligence to realize that most which was taught to me made sense. I had a more open mind than yours apparently but didn't refrain from questioning what was taught to me. And yes, I asked embarrassing questions from time to time and annoyed teachers, but in the end, I accepted most and rejected a little.
Like I said, most made sense. You should try opening up your mind a bit. You might get better educated.
Geoffrey wrote: "No one brainwashed me, nor attempted to do so. I just had the intelligence to realize that most which was taught to me made sense. I had a more open mind than yours apparently but didn't refrain from questioning what was taught to me. And yes, I asked embarrassing questions from time to time and annoyed teachers, but in the end, I accepted most and rejected a little..."
I am sorry. No hope for you. Looks like your conditioning took. I think it went a step beyond just brainwashing for you. Looks like you have a bad case of the....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock...
I don't sell anyone on ¨climate change¨ nor do I have any interest n doing so. But when someone categorically rejects it, I suggest they read the information on it. I am not an evangelist for the global warming community, nor do I wish to brainwash you, but you should keep an open mind. You owe it to your children if you are homeschooling.
Geoffrey wrote: "I don't sell anyone on ¨climate change¨ nor do I have any interest n doing so. But when someone categorically rejects it, I suggest they read the information on it. I am not an evangelist for the g..."From your responses it appears to me that to be opened minded is to ACCEPT.
My children are not in a bubble. They have a computer. I even let them bring their computers, laptops, smart phones to class. They can ask Google and make up their own minds. I don't grade them to see if they have adopted my beliefs. Grades are stupid and are just to keep parents compliant.
E.D. wrote: "Okie doke. I'm going to rant in the name of brevity and Duaneishism, as I have neither the time or inclination to prepare a "paper" for those I respect (Mkfs) or those I see as misguided.As I hav..."
NOW WAIDaminnit... Where do you get off with THAT??
It's gotta be either (a) "Duaneism", as in, either a Famous Quote such as "I don't believe in killing people because then you can't torture them any more", OR, a millenial cult religion designed to lead hipsters off the cliff to their doom, or (b) "Duaneish[ness], as in, "Incapable of taking anything seriously", or "Inability to care how much one gets dissed", or... etc. - And stuff.
But "Duaneishism?? That ain't happening...
(However Geoffrey got me thinking (OH NO... DUCK!!) - How about, "Duanewashed"? I actually *like* the sound of *that* one...) (definition left as an exercise for the stoont)
I would expect such a response as being one of the major tenets of Duaneishism. :}
Duane wrote: "How about, "Duanewashed"? I actually *like* the sound of *that* one...)"Not bad. Kinda like the opposite of greenwasing.
E.D. wrote:" Somebody needs to prove The Maunder Minimum caused that Little Ice Age all by itself..."
Indeed. Say it together, C-I-N-C!
Of course, the ability to prove results has been a problem on all sides of climate change debate. As I understand it, we are currently at "we have PROVED that a change is happening, and we have CORRELATED it with human activity". It's not like we have a Control Earth somewhere without human technology. Inference is all we got.
My own understanding of low-sunspot activity (and I have read about maybe an infant's handful of articles, as this is really a subject of little interest to me) is that it translates to reduced solar wind. So instead of getting bombarded with solar radiation, the third rock gets bombarded with Cosmic Rays (no relation). Potentialy bad news for satellites and terrestrial comms, but the ionosphere should keep earthlings from being microwaved (like in the past -- oops sorry dinosaurs).
How will that affect the climate? It probably won't, but we won't really know until it happens (which was, well, 2014-07-17, and look how well THAT turned out for everybody -- traffic for example was horrible).
Mkfs wrote: "Duane wrote: "How about, "Duanewashed"? I actually *like* the sound of *that* one...)"Not bad. Kinda like the opposite of greenwasing.
E.D. wrote:" Somebody needs to prove The Maunder Minimum ca..."
CINC! CINC!
Precisely!
Case Western--my favorite local brain basket--has an excellent program called The Institute for the Science of Origins. They "get it".
My original purpose for delving into Heliophysics had nothing to do with climate change, but..., overlap happens. Weird, huh?
Anyway, like Zappa, I'm having fun plowing through that "Cosmic debris". :}
E.D. wrote: "Anyway, like Zappa, I'm having fun plowing through that "Cosmic debris". :} "Safe as milk, eh?
I always liked Huxley's analogy from "Brave New World" -"Safe as helicopters"And I would be deeply Honored! (or something...) to be credited with The Opposite of Greenwashing... I mean, would YOU trust something with a backpack and a ponytail, who umm... "Forgets" to include the effect of solar radiation AND sea currents in his (or should I say "Its") ultrasophisticated built-at-taxpayer-expense computerized "Model" for "Global Wanking" oops excuse me Warming? ("uhh... Sorry about that, I was, like um, really baked I uhh, left it out maaan...")
fsck: File system has errors
Now we're getting somewhere that looks like someplace. :}
Cosmic wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "I don't sell anyone on ¨climate change¨ nor do I have any interest n doing so. But when someone categorically rejects it, I suggest they read the information on it. I am not an eva..."No, open mind doesn't mean to accept, other than the acceptance that a viewpoint other than one's own might be correct. There's a considerable difference. I keep my mind open as to whether Greece should stay renounce all its debts and leave the EU as well as the opposite. I keep my mind open as to the existence of a personal God, but I am skeptical. I keep an open mind as to whether Obama got a good deal with Iran the other day, and I keep an open mind as to whether NAFTA was a good deal.
There are pros and cons for every conceivable human action, and hopefully those decisions that we do make have pros that outweigh the cons. The same for our personal belief systems.
A suicidal jihadist makes a decision when he boards a plane and crashes it into a skyscraper. His pros are a fruitless quest to an unlimited supply of virgins but won't have the chance of that delight when he discovers he's in the wrong place.Or maybe the soul doesn't exist after death and there is no great loss as he won't be around to have a loss. Keep an open mind and you will see the world has an endless number of possibilities.
Mkfs wrote: "Duane wrote: "How about, "Duanewashed"? I actually *like* the sound of *that* one...)"Not bad. Kinda like the opposite of greenwasing.
E.D. wrote:" Somebody needs to prove The Maunder Minimum ca..."
Nothing on either side of the debate is "proved". The models do not work because the system is much too complicated. The models all show that the Earth should be much hotter and yet it is in a cooling pattern right now. So the pro side says it is a hiccup and the heat will jump much higher right around the corner and then show no "proof". The pro-global warming side is caught fiddling with the data to "show" there is higher heat than there actually exists. They claim the were adjusting for factors and maybe they were, but it looks bad. The sad part is that they may actually be telling the truth, but how do you trust them when they do not announce and only come up with the explanation after they are caught. The glaciers are melting, but they aren't and are actually growing in many areas, but that doesn't count. The sea levels are rising, but they may not be and if they are they can't be explained why because the sea ice isn't really melting, but you blame global warming because that fits the the story better than sea levels rise and fall naturally. Yet nobody on either side of the debate can explain why because they do not understand either.
The Earth warms and cools naturally and this is known for a very long time. This may be what is actually happening but no pro side will accept it because it ends their push. The anti global warming side points to this , but they can't prove it either.
The truly odd fact is that U.S. emissions is down 20% already and that is because business has found it is cheaper this way.
As for sunspot activity, the idea is that the activity has its up and downs and every now and then it has a really high up and a really low down. It is this really low down that is predicted. This may be important because it may be a real test for global warming. The idea is that less activity creates less solar wind which is one of the driving factors of warming. Less solar wind less heating of the Earth. Except it may not be true either.
Geoffrey wrote: "...I keep my mind open as to whether Greece should stay renounce all its debts and leave the EU as well as the opposite...."
But (Just seizing upon this particular as an example) that's hardly a challenge, other than having to study a lot of boring economics.
What if you have an actual internal moral dilemma to confront, such as, on the one hand maintaining a common currency with the E.U. will make it much easier for you to smuggle heroin into Greece from France, thereby maintaining your opulent Mediterranean lifesyle, as opposed to in the alternative being able to watch the exquisitely delectable spectacle of millions of berserk Greeks rioting in the streets, jonesing for their departed Free Everything (except your dope which they can no longer afford)??
That's, like, the REAL "O Tempore, O Mores", dude... No amount of "Open-Mindedness" will put a wrench on *that* nut.
Duane wrote: "What if you have an actual internal moral dilemma to confront, such as, on the one hand maintaining a common currency with the E.U. will make it much easier for you to smuggle heroin into Greece from France"No need! Thanks to the magic of crypto-currencies, you can even get that money *out* of Greece to somewhere with infrastructure (something you can't do with Euros at the moment). Turns out Bitcoin good for something besides scamming those suckers who failed Economics 101 -- who knew??
Dude... You are *onto* something.Don't tell Soros... the old geezer will be on it like a fly on Obama before you can say Shylock. We need to cash their ass out before one of his hired creeps fingers it out for him!!
I could write the headline... "Unknown hackers today caused the entire net worth of Greece to disappear. An Obama administration spokesman says that Officials at the IMF say that Interpol says that massive quantities of Greek securities were mysteriously converted to something called a "Crypto-Currency" and were last seen heading through a channel of unregistered banking facilities, leaving a trail of crashed and zeroed cybersystems in their wake..."
now let's see, where do they have the best combination of year-round warm beaches and loose women...
OOOhhh.... NOW we're talking.We'll trash their economy, make them start rioting in the streets, AND then in a final, despicable sociopathic act steal their women and park ourselves on their beaches to enjoy our ill-gotten gains, hiding in plain sight!!
I LOVE it...
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http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/...
http://www.nap.edu/catalog/13519/the-...
http://www.spaceweather.com/
But it really goes much further than weather...
http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.p...
By the way can you believe it i don't have any credentials but i just educated you. Using your own words googled.
You know this is what is wrong with the educational system...it still operates like it is 1950.
I think we should let kids google answers and stop memorizing them and start using them...thinking instead of regurgitating.