The Sword and Laser discussion
The Lem Challenge
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Challenge accepted sir!I lemmed the Hobbit for no good reason really, but I feel particularly bad about now because I bagged the movie out for being so different. So I will finish the Hobbit, I hadn't read it like I thought and as a classic it deserves to be read.
I found a way for books I just can't finish but I still want to 'read' - I'm getting them on audio. Right now I'm listening to Dracula
Magini wrote: "I found a way for books I just can't finish but I still want to 'read' - I'm getting them on audio. Right now I'm listening to Dracula"I'm reading Dracula too, but not for my Lem. What a coincidence!
Noah wrote: "I'm reading Dracula too, but not for my Lem. What a coincidence! "It took me a while to get to this book. I guess it's because I really enjoyed the movie and most of the time book is waaaay better :)
I try not to lem, I just put aside for another day.
I really want to go back to The Liveship Traders, I didn't actually lem it, I burn out easily when im reading a lot of books in the same world and I was finding it a bit long and slow even though the writing was very good, so I would like to return to that.
I really want to go back to The Liveship Traders, I didn't actually lem it, I burn out easily when im reading a lot of books in the same world and I was finding it a bit long and slow even though the writing was very good, so I would like to return to that.
Mod
All the books in my "currently reading" shelf but one I'm not currently reading (if that makes sense), but I do intend to go back to them.The question is, for the purpose of this challenge, is "to Lem" to merely put down a book after having got part way into it? or is it to put it down having decided not to finish it?
If it's the later then there are hardly any books I've ever Lemmed. If the former I have lots to choose from :)
I did give up on Hyperion once I'd realised I wasn't going to complete it for even the tail end of the group discussion.
For the sake of the challenge I was thinking we would pick books we never anticipated going back to. For example, I would challenge Veronica to finish "Memoirs," simply because she and that book started the whole "Lem" movement.
While I think it's nice that you're giving books a second chance, isn't the philosophy behind "Lem-ing" a book that it's okay to put a book down unfinished if it's just not a good match for you? That you don't have to feel guilty for passing on a book that you didn't enjoy and moving on to something you might? When you talk to some people who "always finish books, no matter what," it can kind of feel like you're a failure for not doing likewise.Not to discourage you from revisiting a book you once lemmed (how do you spell the past tense of Lem?), but I wonder if it's a different thing to put down a book that you're just not in the mood for, versus deciding that you won't finish a book, and you don't care if you ever do.
Take the challenge how you want. I just thought it would be a good experience to finish something, even if you are 99.999% sure you won't like it. You never know.
Just a warning, Hyperion is 'to be continued'.
Understood. If I stop after the first book I'll use wikipedia to get the rest of the story.
I was just curious to your motivation for finishing a book that you are not liking? My personal opinion is if at 50% the book just does not do anything for me, and I really don't care about will happen to the characters. Why waste time on it when there are books out there that I know I will love? When you finish a book you did not care for, don't you feel like you wasted you time?
Matt wrote: "I was just curious to your motivation for finishing a book that you are not liking? My personal opinion is if at 50% the book just does not do anything for me, and I really don't care about will ha..."I'm with you on that, only I usually give up at about 20-30%
But there are some books that are good, only the writing style doesn't fit me - these I tend to read in parts with some 'breaks' for other books :)
For me, I think it was a way to broaden my horizons. If you look at my books, I've got over 1,400 books on Goodreads, but as time has gone on my tastes have narrowed so far that I'm a lot less likely to tale a chance on something outside of what I normally read. I've missed out on a lot of great books because they weren't "my type."Anyone else?
I did something similar last year, except that instead of revisiting books I didn't like, I picked up books that looked interesting, but were outside of my normal Scifi/Fantasy comfort zones. I read The Night Circus, Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children, a few non-fiction books, and in general cast out far and wide of my usual preferences. It was hard, and I did have to push through a lot of them, but now I feel more willing to give new authors a chance, whereas before I was actually going back and re-reading things a lot. I'm happier for having done it, but then I did find some gems among those books.
You mean I'd have to go back and finish Daemon? I'm not sure I want to. I think I'd rather try Memoirs Found in a Bathtub.
Joe wrote: "You mean I'd have to go back and finish Daemon? I'm not sure I want to. I think I'd rather try Memoirs Found in a Bathtub."Go for it.
For a while on my kindle I was trying to do one older / classic (i.e. free) book (that might interest me) for every current book. I ended up lemming two of three most recent classic books I've tried: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Princess of Mars. I might try Princess of Mars again but I can't imagine anything that would make me pick up 20,000 Leagues again as I did make it halfway through and its quite possibly the most boring thing I've ever read.
I read Princess of Mars last year, fully expecting to read the sequels but I was underwhelmed and haven't felt the need to go back to the series.
Hmmm, I don't think I've ever Lemmed something on purpose, although I accidentally Lemmed "the picture of Dorian Gray". I simply forgot that I was reading it, maybe because it didn't really grab me. So I think I'll participate with that one ;)
I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and liked it far more on my second go. I stopped Neuoromancer because it just wasn't doing it for me, but I've planned on going back to it for awhile.
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (the first book) was one of the few books I Lemmed. Usually I try at least to skim through the book I do not like to see if it has any redeeming features.
I've lemmed a lot of books over the years but most of them I do plan on trying to go back to. Sometimes (at least for me) if I try something and can't get into it, in a few years I end up loving it. Recently, I lemmed Gardens of the Moon about 70 pages in. I need to try that when I have more time to concentrate.One book I've tried and quit on many times is Catch-22. I cannot read that book to save my life.
One day I'll get back to Anathem. I like everything from Neal Stephenson but the first two times I've tried I haven't been able to get into it.
I don't mean to bag on anyone but why should I read books I don't enjoy? A few years ago I started on the Dune prequel books by Brian Herbert. I didn't much like Kevin Anderson's work but I loved everything Frank Herbert wrote so I wanted to try them. I was part way through the 2nd one and was complaining to a friend when he asked me why. His opinion is that life is too short to read bad books (bad being a subjective evaluation). I agree with Robert that not every book will be written for every person and it's okay to stop if you don't enjoy it. I put them aside and have loved everything I've read since.
So why should I go back and try to finish something I've LEMed? (I also LEMed Frankstein when I was on a classics kick)
I loved Catch-22. I've also read all of Erikson's Malazan books of the fallen (except the last 2, need to get them on my list). I loved the "Chain of Dogs" in the 2nd one and reread that book at least twice. The Hobbit was great but I can understand why they might get LEMed. Another friend of mine LEMed LotR back in his teenage years during the extensive part about who hobbits are at the beginning.
Jim wrote: "I don't mean to bag on anyone but why should I read books I don't enjoy? Read whatever you want. I just know a lot of people finish the book of the month early, so why not throw out a challenge for those who are interested?
I promise that if you don't want to take part in this that I will not remote detonate the dye pack I planted in your wall safe or give the code word for your cat to bite your toe.
Robert wrote: "were outside of my normal Scifi/Fantasy comfort zones"Mr Noah wrote: "I've missed out on a lot of great books because they weren't "my type."
I can see what you are both saying. But you are talking more not starting books at all, and I thought we were talking about finishing books we started and gave up on. Have either of you finished a book you wanted to (or actually did) give up on halfway in and ended up liking it in the end?
Actually, I did that today. I finally finished Dracula. I started it many times over the years, but for various reasons I never made it more than 1/3 in. This time I stuck with it and it turned out pretty well.
I'm in danger of lemming the pickwick papers. Not because I don't like it but because I want to read Nicholas Nickleby at the same time as the Dickens goodreads group. They start it on the 15th Feb and I'm not even 1/3 of the way through pickwick.Does anybody else find themselves using the word "Lem" in other forums and then have to explain it to suddenly silent forums?
Matt: I think it is a good challenge as two of my favorite all-time books (for the curious they were The Shining and Jonathan Strange & Nr Norrell) I lemmed halfway through my first reading. I later picked them up and ended up loving them. I find that I need the right book, at the right time for the specific story to click with me. So going back to a book you lemmed and trying it in a different frame of mind can sometimes make a world of difference in your impressions of the work.
I guess a lot comes down to why you 'Lemmed' it in the first place. Often I get a bit bogged down in a longish book and want something that's quicker, lighter or a different genre. If I 'Lem' at that point I'll often not pick it up again for a while and then start over. But I suspect that's not really 'Lemming' in the strict sense of "I hate this book and I want to hurl it at a wall" ;)
I plan on going back to American Gods by Gaiman.I know everyone generally loves it, but reading it on my Kindle, I found myself confused and tired of it. It felt just soo long to make any kind of progress. I hope that I can find the enjoyment in it that others have.
Kate wrote: "So going back to a book you lemmed and trying it in a different frame of mind can sometimes make a world of difference in your impressions of the work. "Actually that is a really good point. So good in fact that next time I want to bail on a book and never look back I will give that a try first.
This is an interesting challenge because we all change and mature as readers over the years. Just because you didn't like a book a few years ago, doesn't mean that you won't like it now. You are probably not the same person you were.
Nope nothing would ever, EVER entice me to pick up and finish Cloud Atlas.If it was the last book on earth, I'd give up reading.
Kate wrote: "Matt: I think it is a good challenge as two of my favorite all-time books (for the curious they were The Shining and Jonathan Strange & Nr Norrell) I lemmed halfway through my first reading. I late..."I couldn't agree more Kate. I read the Hobbit when I was very young and didn't like it then. Rereading it this time I think I let that colour my opinion and gave up far too early because I was distracted by other books over a busy time of year. Now I feel ready to give it another go with a more open mind.
I keep trying to finish Prince of Thorns but every time i read that first chapter I put it down. Thought it would be easier if I tried it as an audiobook but still just can't care about the main character. Why should I? He rapes, slaughters innocents, afraid of nothing... no better than the guy who did that stuff to his mother and brother. Anyone wanna tell me why I should want to read about him?I brought The Lies of Locke Lamora with me to work this time so I am going to try to finish that again after finishing The Daylight War. Can't say why I didn't get into Lamora. Something else came up and I never went back to it. Probably hadn't even finished the first chapter yet to even get me hooked.
I keep going back to Gardens of the Moon (this one i have actually gotten a fair ways into) but I keep lemming it when he introduces an entire new set of characters in the middle of the book. I just can't bring myself to care about these new ones, especially when the old ones just got interesting. Makes me feel like its going to be another Jordan, Goodkind and Martin. Couple interesting characters being squeezed out of the pages by completely useless filler characters.
Mod
Gardens of the Moon is definitely a hard read, but I've found it very rewarding by the end. I think the group I'm reading with helps a lot.
I didn't have too many issues with Gardens of the Moon, but at the start of Deadhouse Gates it's almost an entirely new cast of characters, with only 4 people overlapping from the previous book so far.
Mr. Noah wrote: I promise that if you don't want to take part in this that I will not remote detonate the dye pack I planted in your wall safe or give the code word for your cat to bite your toe. "Too late, the cat (Roberta Openheimer Rodriguez, brilliant cat physicist and inventor of the zombie nuke, Bob for short) already does.
;-P
I have a bad habit of picking up a new book when I have others on the go and reading that one instead. I then leave it too long and lose where I was/forget what was happening in the first book. At the moment, for every new book I read, I have to finish one of the ones I have started. It's going pretty well and the pile of abandoned books is shrinking. For example I just finished Cloud Atlas which I put down because I was finding it difficult to read. But I am glad I finished it and now I can reward myself with a new book.
I didn't have too many issues with Gardens of the Moon, but at the start of Deadhouse Gates it's almost an entirely new cast of characters, with only 4 people overlapping from the previous book so far. The characters/settings tend to repeat every second book, so you'll return to Genabackis in book 3. There are lots of Malazan wikis/websites to help you out if you're confused; the Malazans have a penchant for nicknames so you may find that characters with different names end up being the same person ;-) .
Erikson is not an author that leads the reader around by the hand; you will have to do some work, but the more effort (ie. careful reading) you put into the stories, the more you'll get out of them. For me, the Malazan books are matchless ... but I do understand how some people give up in frustration.
Eh. Something that brings me back to a series is my enjoyment of the characters. I have a hard time convincing my self to read about characters that I have no stake in when their story has little to know affect on the main plot for a good chunk of the book. I remember this well with Jordan and Goodkind. You get to book five and you open it up to this new character that has never been mentioned, met or has any indication on his importance to the over all book. I remember in book five (I think) of the WoT Rand, the character the entire series revolves around had less than 100 pages with him in it in a book that was 600+ pages long. To me it feels like I just wasted $15 bucks on a story that went nowhere. These characters are probably important in the end but after five books I wanna read about Rand! Not some silly new character with little relevence to the overall story. Most of my lems are due to a story having too many main characters.
Evgeny wrote: "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (the first book) was one of the few books I Lemmed. Usually I try at least to skim through the book I do not like to see if it has any redeeming features."The first portion of that book/series was incredibly slow for me too. Only after he gets dropped in the fantasy world did it begin to hold my interest, although I still did not like Covenant as a character. Donaldson seems to have a soft spot for whiny protagonists (I'm looking at you Linden Avery) ;-)
Funny. So many books mentioned here that I love.
Kp wrote: "the character the entire series revolves around had less than 100 pages with him in it in a book that was 600+ pages long. To me it feels like I just wasted $15 bucks on a story that went nowhere.These characters are probably important in the end but after five books I wanna read about Rand! "
That would be book 10Crossroads of Twilight What some would consider the low point of the series. Book 11 kicked it back in gear in a big way and I think Jordan got his groove back. Of course then Jordan passed away and Sanderson took over with books 12-14.
Mod
Like I said, I'm reading it with a group, many of which have read it before so I have plenty of help.
Still didn't make it any less confusing when I read it myself.
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Crossroads of Twilight (other topics)Gardens of the Moon (other topics)
Deadhouse Gates (other topics)
Gardens of the Moon (other topics)
Prince of Thorns (other topics)
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Motivated by my success in reading it, I then decided to finish Home Fires, which had been in my "Lem" pile for a while. Again, I wasn't a huge fan, but I felt good about completing it.
So, what's the point? I'm so glad you asked! I'd like to challenge each S&L reader to read one book that they have pulled a "Lem" on in the past.
If you accept, please post which book you will tackle and why you gave up the first time around. As a sign of good faith I pledge to finish Hyperion. I think I gave up on because it was just so long and complicated, but I'm ready to take it down. If I can survive Lem, I can do anything!