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message 1: by Nancy (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments Let's discuss.

Should professors be required to warn their students that they’ve assigned them emotionally distressing material?

Rest of article here:
http://www.mhpbooks.com/for-mature-au...


message 2: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Nancy wrote: "Let's discuss.

Should professors be required to warn their students that they’ve assigned them emotionally distressing material?

Rest of article here:
http://www.mhpbooks.com/for-mature-au......"


Interesting article. People need to put on some "adult pants" here. If you are studying literature at a college level then you need to realize that something you read may contain politically incorrect or insensitive material. We can't put "trigger warnings" on everything. We can't exist in a bubble. It is okay to have bad reactions to things and good reactions to things and oh yeah, lets not forget "meh" reactions to things. That is the point of reading! To learn something, to experience something you wouldn't normally experience, to immerse yourself in a new world or a different time. If you have serious issues with something then as an adult who is in college you need to put on big girl or boy pants and go and talk to the professor during office hours and explain why you just can't continue to read whatever book it is for whatever reason then you can discuss a solution with the professor. I think a lot of books wouldn't get read if they had big warning stickers on them. I don't want to live in a world filled with warning labels and black bars over anything that is not P.C. I want to have reactions to things that is what makes me a vital human thinking person. All of my reactions don't have to be good; I want to make an informed decision and form an informed opinion. I don't want to be kept in a bubble free of anything that may offend me. Anyway - I don't mean to seem insensitive but I do think it is important to be allowed to react to things even if my reaction is negative and even if it pisses me off.


message 3: by Greg (last edited Jun 05, 2015 07:43AM) (new)

Greg I would worry that the warning label would inevitably produce a lot of class discussion and wasted class time on whatever was on the warning label.

I do feel sympathy for students who might have specific traumatic events in their history, but I agree with Kernos - office hours discussions could help deal with individual concerns much better than a garish warning label.

It would be great if all students were mature enough to come to office hours on their own, but that might not always happen.

A sensitive professor could take other less disruptive steps than warning labels.

For example, a short general statement at the beginning of class that office hours were available and if students had any concerns about the reading, please come and talk in office hours. If, as in the example in the article, a usually talkative person became quiet, the professor could be alert enough to talk to them after class and ask them to come to office hours. That invitation would probably be better than trying to deal with the whole issue after class as the example professor did. Coming to office hours would not only create a built-in cool down period; they would also be less time-restrained.

Another idea: in some literature classes, we kept journals of reading reactions that we turned in periodically in addition to the regular essays. The content of the journals could help alert the professor that a talk (and invitation to office hours) was necessary.


message 4: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Greg wrote: "I would worry that the warning label would inevitably produce a lot of class discussion and wasted class time on whatever was on the warning label.

I do feel sympathy for students who might have s..."


I like your idea of the journal of reading reactions. That could be a very good way for the professor to see if someone was having a legitimate bad reaction related to a traumatic past event and would probably have another good side effect of helping the student work through some of the issues that were triggered.

I also realize that not all students would come to office hours so I also like the idea of telling students to come and discuss their concerns.

Like I said before, I really do not like the idea of warning labels. It says that you are not an adult or mature enough to handle this material but I assigned it anyway. Just my opinion. I also agree with you that the warning label would cause as much discussion as the book which would waste a lot of class room time that should be utilized discussing the book itself.


message 5: by Zefi (new)

Zefi | 7 comments I agree very much with all of the above posts!
It is of course important to safeguard people from unnecessary emotional stress, and literature and cinema and art in general should be sensitive to that....
But up to an extent! Personally, I cannot conceive of an education or even of a memorable artistic experience that won't make at least a little uncomfortable!
Knowledge must create empathy, and empathy has the risk of hurtfulness sometimes within it, but how else could it be?


message 6: by Greg (new)

Greg Zefi wrote: "Knowledge must create empathy, and empathy has the risk of hurtfulness sometimes within it, but how else could it be? ..."

So true Zefi!


message 7: by Zefi (new)

Zefi | 7 comments Thanks Greg!
I mean, the whole thing with trigger warnings is really becoming THE most important thing, we switch from talking about how we feel and what we think about art to how offended we are by it. It feels like lots of steps backwards.... and I am not saying that without knowing how important safe spaces are - I am member of an LGBTQ group where we often have this talk and try to maintain safety of space for most...But I feel this trigger warming culture will be ultimately harmful :/


message 8: by Bill, Moderator (new)

Bill (kernos) | 2988 comments Mod
For college students? Good gods no. We are creating a world of milquetoasts by protecting everyone from everything.


message 9: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Well said Zefi and Kernos! I agree.


message 10: by Greg (new)

Greg Oops, sorry Mel! Just realized I said Kernos down in message 3 when I meant you. On my phone, the profile icons are so tiny next to people's posts that I get mixed up sometimes who is writing. :)


message 11: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Greg wrote: "Oops, sorry Mel! Just realized I said Kernos down in message 3 when I meant you. On my phone, the profile icons are so tiny next to people's posts that I get mixed up sometimes who is writing. :)"

No worries! :)


message 12: by Nancy (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments Here are two good arguments in favor of trigger warnings:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/do-...

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/do-...


message 13: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Nancy wrote: "Here are two good arguments in favor of trigger warnings:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/do-...

http://www...."

Interesting articles Nancy. Thanks for posting. I still dislike the idea of "warning labels" for art literature music and even movies but do see the point for the other side especially the announcement in the second article which seems a fair way of handling it.

I do wonder though if people aren't leaving because letting everyone see you leave the room sets you apart and lets the room know that you are having a bad reaction to something. Which is why she said, no one ever leaves. In a college environment it can be hard for some to be different or stand out, especially if it something you personally feel some sort of shame or embarrassment about. (whether it is your fault or not).

Anyway, interesting points.

I was not an English major but I was the one in the library looking for the weirdest books I could find to read and educate myself. I went to a Catholic college and yet there was no shortage of interesting things in the library, and that I really appreciate. That library made a reader out of me. I don't think a warning label would have deterred me, I think it would have made me want to read the books even more.


message 14: by Nancy (last edited Jun 08, 2015 09:10AM) (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments I am against blanket warning labels on books. A well-written summary and information that can be gleaned from the internet should provide sufficient detail to potential readers.

While it is up to professors to provide a safe environment for students to discuss any potentially triggering issues, it is up to the student to get treatment for their PTSD. College is a place to mature, challenge your mind, and be exposed to different ideas. While some of these ideas may conflict with existing beliefs and values, students should not be sheltered from literature, which is a reflection of life.


message 15: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Nancy wrote: "I am against blanket warning labels on books. A well-written summary should provide sufficient detail to potential readers, as well as all the information that can easily be found on the internet...."

Well said Nancy!


message 16: by Bill, Moderator (new)

Bill (kernos) | 2988 comments Mod
From the 1st link, "From this perspective, whether they are formalized or not by an institution, they are indicative of an important liberation of speech, a challenge to implicitly discriminatory status quo and a democratization of culture."

What does that mean? I have no idea.

"They’re overwhelming physical and psychological responses to sounds or smells."

Perhaps. That's what I call learning. Learning about nature and oneself. It's about reality and not the fairy tales kids are taught.

Biases? This author is oversensitive and purports to tell me how to think and feel about everything. When I read something I want to react from within, not from some external PC force.


message 17: by Nancy (last edited Jun 08, 2015 12:12PM) (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments Kernos wrote: "When I read something I want to react from within, not from some external PC force..."

Very true, Kernos.


message 18: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Kernos wrote: "From the 1st link, "From this perspective, whether they are formalized or not by an institution, they are indicative of an important liberation of speech, a challenge to implicitly discriminatory s..."

I also do not want to be told how to think and feel by some external PC force. I feel like reacting to something whether it be bad or good is part of the process of reading or experiencing any other type of art. I don't want to be warned about everything. I don't want to be molly coddled.

Also to clarify what i said earlier about if i saw a warning label on something that probably would have made me want to read it more that would have been the "This book contains explicit material that may be deemed offensive to some people" warning.


message 20: by Nancy (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments I picked up Kinflicks when I was a teenager because I liked the first paragraph:

''My family has always been into death. My father, the Major, used to insist on having an ice pick next to his placemat at meals so that he could perform an emergency tracheotomy when one of us strangled on a piece of meat.''

Knowing that my parents would find the book inappropriate, I hid it under my bed. Sadly, my father found it and promptly removed it. Then he started screening my reading material more closely and I got smarter about hiding my books. He eventually left me alone, probably figuring out I would read what I want, no matter what he says.

There were no warnings in those days.

Sure, I picked up books that were shocking, titillating, and downright disturbing. If I didn't like a book, I would put it down and find another.

No harm done.


message 21: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Nancy wrote: "I picked up Kinflicks when I was a teenager because I liked the first paragraph:

''My family has always been into death. My father, the Major, used to insist on having an ice pick ne..."


I am lucky my parents did not care what we were reading as long as we were reading. I also looked for more and more books that were shocking etc. I was elated to have found William S Burroughs in the college library.


message 22: by A.J. (new)

A.J. Ridges (ajridges) | 10 comments Funny I stumbled on to this thread, because I was just reading a 1* review of a book in which the author killed off the main character at the end with no warnings.
I'd hate that!
I definitely think that if you are going to kill off an MC especially in a romance, you need to advise the reader somehow.

If not, you're just setting yourself up for some nasty reviews.


message 23: by Nancy (last edited Jun 09, 2015 04:00PM) (new)

Nancy | 2838 comments I get what you're saying, A.J., but I feel that trigger warnings are overused. When I read, I want to be challenged, shocked, and emotionally moved (not necessarily all at the same time). Sometimes that means having a good cry, or being angry and frustrated. I absolutely do not want to be warned in advance about a character death, even in a romance. It's a plot spoiler. If the warnings about the story reveal too much about the plot, then I'm unlikely to buy the book.

Perhaps I'm in the minority here. I read all genres and hate formulaic writing. So I don't have set expectations from the stories I read. In romance, I like deviations from formula and don't mind cheating, character death, trauma, HFN or bittersweet endings. I expect creativity, a compelling plot, realistic characters, clean writing and editing. If those expectations are not met, only then would I write a negative review.

A well-written blurb should be enough information for the reader to determine the suitability of the story.


message 24: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
I would definitely not want to be warned about anything in the plot,which is why I often skip introductions or read them after I have read the book because they contain spoilers. I'm with Nancy. The blurb should be enough.


message 25: by Greg (new)

Greg Mel wrote: "I would definitely not want to be warned about anything in the plot,which is why I often skip introductions or read them after I have read the book because they contain spoilers. I'm with Nancy. Th..."

Mel, I usually skip introductions too and read them afterwards. Once or twice I got burned where an introduction gave away what I considered a major plot point, and I was very annoyed. I prefer to approach works fresh, knowing very little in advance if possible.


message 26: by Mel, Moderator (new)

Mel | 82 comments Mod
Greg wrote: "Mel wrote: "I would definitely not want to be warned about anything in the plot,which is why I often skip introductions or read them after I have read the book because they contain spoilers. I'm wi..."

I hear you on being annoyed by the spoiler in the introduction. This just happened to me in the book I am currently reading. I don't know why I decided to read the intro first this time because I almost never do, but I did and was reminded of why I don't usually do it. It gave away a major part of the plot in a short story of all things. Annoying! Lol Anyway.. I'm with you I don't like to know too much before I start the book.


message 27: by Valyssia (last edited Jul 07, 2015 02:10AM) (new)

Valyssia Leigh | 47 comments I really wouldn't want publishers to be required to list specific triggers, especially if this went the way of everything else and the religious right got involved. There are no shortage of reviews. Let the people who want that information get it from those sources.

I do find it baffling that we don't adhere to some sort of ratings system for printed works. We use them for everything else in this god-awful, god-fearing, god-crazy country (the US), why not books? Even fan-fiction is rated, yet books with erotic content or explicit violence or vulgar language go unmarred. Maybe it's just that the people who do such things can't be bothered to read?

And yes, I do have a negative view. I think that measures like these are one step toward censorship. But then, I've bought music CDs that were censored before. Naturally, I was dense enough to opened the package, so I couldn't take it back. I was livid. I'd be equally livid if they redacted or beeped out words on my ebooks or audiobooks. It would bother me to see some sort of ugly seal stamped on the covers of material some morally superior third party found offensive.

Where I get conflicted is when children enter the picture. I do believe that we have a duty to protect young readers. And I'm also baffled by the designation YA. I've seen books referred to as YA that would easily earn an 'R' rating if they were subjected to the scrutiny of the MPAA. It absolutely boggles my mind. My half-sister is one of those wonderful mothers who takes the time to read everything her daughters do before they do, and after they get their hot little hands on the stories, she discusses the material with them. I think that's one of the most touching things I've heard. If only all mothers were that scrupulous, I'd see no problem. They aren't, so I think something simple should happen to make it easy to judge what's what in the YA section.

Otherwise, I'd like to be left alone...and I have little sympathy for adults. I'm bright enough to read the descriptions, and professional and amateur reviews when I have a question about a book I'm interested in. I don't see why others can't be just as responsible. And if they aren't, I'm inclined to think they can lump it. If a student has a problem with the homework, I suggest they take it up with the teacher. I'm sure they could be told where the offensive parts are, and redact the material themselves.


message 28: by Julia (last edited Jul 25, 2015 05:56PM) (new)

Julia | 271 comments So in The Martian, the main character swears like a mechanical engineer. He is a mechanical engineer, but expect for two offstage references to sex, there is none. The main character is alone on Mars, after all, which is the premise, not a spoiler.

This is coming out as a movie in October, I would hate for young boys and girls who want to be astronauts, engineers, botanists to stay home from the movie or not read the book based on it, because he swears. It's not YA, but teens could read it.

Valyssia, I guess I fear who would do the policing of determining what is YA. I'm currently reading Will Grayson, Will Grayson by John Green and David Levithan, which is YA. No sex, yet, but the title characters have just met in a porn shop in the Big City, when they live in suburbia. They are teenaged boys and embarrassed.


message 29: by Bill, Moderator (new)

Bill (kernos) | 2988 comments Mod
An interesting article on this topic: Higher education’s real censors: What we’re missing in the debate over trigger warnings and “coddled” students

I don't really agree with the author. My stand is more like that of Kafka's. These are generally the best books I've read:
Altogether, I think we ought to read only books that bite and sting us. If the book we are reading doesn’t shake us awake like a blow on the skull, why bother reading it in the first place? So that it can make us happy, as you put it? Good God, we’d be just as happy if we had no books at all; books that make us happy we could, at a pinch, also write ourselves. What we need are books that hit us like a most painful misfortune, like the death of someone we loved more than we love ourselves, that make us feel as though we had been banished to the woods, far from any human presence, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea within us. That is what I believe.



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