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Decline and Fall
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June 2015- Decline and Fall by Evelyn Waugh
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George Padmore looks interesting, I quickly looked on Amazon and it seems there are a few different books, dealing mostly with colonialism in Africa, but they all look very expensive. Has anyone found anything by a black British author who grew up in England in our time period? The very little we've found seems to be from people who've later moved to the UK, focusing more on colonialism.
I've previously read Small Island which focused on the second world war period and the couple of years afterwards. This was a great book, but it would be nice to find something written from the period, or if not, maybe something similar to this.
^ Not from our period (but only a few years later), I can only reiterate the previous recommendation for..
The Lonely Londoners by Sam Selvon
I loved it. The Lonely Londoners is wonderful. Sam Selvon beautifully evokes immigrant life in 1950s London for various characters who have come to London from the West Indies for work and opportunity.
The tale is narrated by kindhearted but homesick Moses Aloetta who introduces us to some marvellous characters: newly arrived Galahad, ladies man Cap, Tolroy whose family have arrived en masse, Five Past, and many many more. The whole book is written in patois and it is this technique that brings it all to life - it flows like the best prose, is beautifully written and even the moribund slang sings. There's not really a story as such, just a flow of vignettes that touch on discrimination, the weather, relationships, friends, family, feuds, humour, fifties London and so on.
A really interesting, enjoyable and important book. Despite being rooted in the 1950s I suspect it contains universal truths for all people who seek a new life in a new and alien place. 4/5
And from the Patrick Hamilton Appreciation Society thread on Sam Selvon...
Val wrote: "Sam Selvon was writing about London in the '50s and '60s and about West Indian immigrants. This is not depicting quite the same London as the earlier novels, but follows on from them. It shares the same finely tuned ear for dialogue, a similar cast of downtrodden characters and the same grimy streets. "
Now then, back to the book, what do we make of Otto Silenus and in particular his “wheel of life” motif?Otto is a modernist architect who believes that the perfect building would be one impossible to live in. His “wheel of life” motif….
It’s like the big wheel at Luna Park… (people are) trying to sit in the wheel, and they keep getting flung off…the nearer you can get to the hub of the wheel the slower it is moving and the easier it is to stay on.. at the very centre there’s a point completely at rest… I’m not sure I am not very near that point myself… Lots of people just enjoy scrambling on and being whisked off and scrambling on again… Then there are others, like Margot, who sit as far out as they can and hold on for dear life and enjoy that. But the whole point about the wheel is you needn’t get on at all… Now you’re a person who was clearly meant to stay in the seats and sit still and if you get bored watch the others.
To what extent is this a critique of the society Waugh moved in during the 1920s and his own ambivalent position? Born middle class and suburban, Waugh was a stranger to both the centre of the wheel and its fast-moving edge. Was he an observer having a laugh at those trying to cling on to the ride, or a scrambler who kept getting flung off? Or something else entirely? How convincing is this model as a way of describing 1920s British society?
Possibly. What is this hub? Waugh's ideal polite society? Those who rule? Who are the 'it' crowd? The 20s was a period of change and breaking from convention. Waugh to me is a conventional man who wants to be one of the toffs that he encourages us to laugh at. The passages that I have read so far, contain people who are not that bright, who are part of institutions that are not that great, falling apart at the seems. The title is very appropriate. Yet, was it ever a great time? For whom? Waugh must be looking back with rose tinted glasses...a bit. : )
Nice touch though that it is a modernist architect making this comment about the wheel of life.
Don't most people sit and watch rather than do something out of the ordinary? Follow rather than lead? Follow the herd rather than fall off?Most don't go up mountains and take, ahem their clothes off. Or live on a hill on there own, chanting. : )
I think the hub is for the privileged few who don't have to try or strive and can influence the lives of others, for example the hapless Paul PennyfeatherThings just happen to Paul Pennyfeather - he is completely passive, a victim of circumstance. The most static of them all (in Otto's terms). He is at his happiest when in solitary confinement which tells you all you everything about him. But, like many of Waugh's characters, he is a cypher for the broader points.
Yes, quite. : ) The broader points are that society was better in the past? The upper classes were better in the past? They are decadent and have fallen off the rails? Or is he poking fun at such people?
Roisin wrote: "The broader points are that society was better in the past? The upper classes were better in the past? They are decadent and have fallen off the rails? Or is he poking fun at such people? I’m not sure he’s suggesting things are better or worse - it's simply a critique of English society in the late 1920s. Waugh’s satire is clearly critical of many of the features of the era however this was most likely a result of his own ambivalent position within it. Undeniably middle class and suburban and so a stranger to both the centre of the wheel and its fast-moving edge. He didn’t fit in anywhere - or anywhere he wanted to be.
His disquiet with the modern trends of English society in the late 1920s are clear (and his criticism became even more damning by the time of “A Handful of Dust” in 1934).
I think his genius in Decline and Fall is to make some fairly subtle but scathing criticisms with the confines of a very readable and seemingly humorous, light plot. The tension between seriousness and humour is ultimately what defines this book.
Paul Pennyfeather is an archetype that Waugh would use for many of his later protagonists - the same lack of agency is also a feature of Charles Ryder in Brideshead and Guy Crouchback in Sword of Honour. They initiate nothing and so lack the sympathy that many authors inspire in their readers - coincidence? I think it was a deliberate ploy.
It’s also interesting to reflect on some of the more immoral characters like Margot Betse-Chetwynd, Philbrick and Captain Grimes all grotesque, outrageous and immoral rather than realistic. Or are they? Waugh inflicts numerous indignities on his characters - and perhaps, in his mind, they all get their just desserts?
Take your point, makes sense. Charles and Guy are not the nicest of creatures and Guy bumbles a long like Paul so far and Charles is a bit of an opportunist, but also by the end he is the lonely, 'childless and friendless' individual, since Waugh was extolling Catholic virtues, so yes we are not supposed to be behind him. They are not characters that encourage us to feel for them. I've got to the 'sports' bit and Sebastian.
Sebastian's quote,
'But all the time that poor coloured man has a soul same as you have.'
Shakespeare's Shylock says something similar.
Just dropping in to thank all of you for having this discussion. I read Decline and Fall a few years ago—my only Waugh so far, although I've made a start on Put Out More Flags a few times. I was highly impressed with the book and, even though I don't remember all that much about it, I'm finding the comments stimulating. I will be adding Selvon's The Lonely Londoners to my TBR list.
^ Great news Richard
^ ^ How are you getting on with it Roisin?Any other BYTers reading this one?
Yes I'm reading it Nigeyb, but haven't long started, so don't have much to say yet!
I haven't started it yet. But I did get it from Kindle.
^ Splendid news Pink. I am very interested to discover what you think of it as and when. EDIT: And you too Jan - even better!
I haven't picked this back up all week and think I might abandon it for now. I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but perhaps it's just the wrong time for me as I can't get into it at the moment. I'll try again later.
^ It can be all about timing Pink. At least you tried. I has a similar experience with Kim, which I got out of the library but just wasn't in the mood for it so took it back. Same applies to The Secret Lives of Somerset Maugham: A Biography - that went back to the library too. I'll skip the discussions this month and be back again in August for The Paying Guests - which I'm very excited about discussing.
I finally just pushed and finished this this morning. Clearly it's not hard, and shouldn't have taken me so long, since I read the last third in a couple hours, so could've read the whole thing in a day. Anyways. I did enjoy it, maybe not as much as the first time, but I think that's just because I dragged it out so long. I had forgotten how clever and yet biting it can be. The part where Paul's in prison (part of what I read today) is just so funny! I totally understand where Paul is coming from, liking the order and routine of prison. I do love Waugh. :)
^ Thanks Bronwyn - I enjoyed your update
I listened to an old 'In Our Time' podcast about 'Decline and Fall' at the weekend. It was really interesting - lots about Waugh's life, the inspiration for the characters (many drawn from real people) and his time at Oxford. The panel also discuss how the book was received when published - apparently Winston Churchill recommended that people buy it as a Christmas gift!This blog tells you a bit more and links to the podcast:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/ent...
^ Thanks Lori. I look forward to reading and listening.
Ta Lori! Look forward to listening to this too.
Thanks Lori. The In Our Time broadcast was great.I noticed there's one on Kipling too, which might have some interesting comments about Kim....
Susan wrote: "Not sure where to post this. There is a new Evelyn Waugh adaptation of "Decline and Fall" on BBC soon if anyone is interested:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kzf29"
I've replied to your comment Susan over here on the official BYT "Decline and Fall" book discussion thread - and what a splendid discussion we had too. Bravo BYT.
Perhaps the exciting looking new BBC adaptation will generate a bit more discussion too? We can but hope.
The two clips here look very promising....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08l6...
This is the Radio Times review...
REVIEW
by Alison Graham
There’s a cheeky, knowing addition to Evelyn Waugh’s peerless comic novel. It’s a pig’s head that most certainly did not appear in the book’s opening passage, when innocent theology student Paul Pennyfeather is stripped naked by the louts of Oxford University’s Bollinger Club.
The “Bolly” yobs are an exclusive club of braying, vandalising toffs (sound familiar?) who lead to the hapless Pennyfeather’s downfall. Jack Whitehall is perfectly cast as the wide-eyed, serious young man who is sent down after the unfortunate incident in the quad, and ends up teaching subjects he knows nothing about at a terrible Welsh public school.
The cast is magnificent – Stephen Graham as Philbrick, the sinister butler, Vincent Franklin as the bewigged “Prendy” and Douglas Hodge as the one-legged and quite shameless Captain Grimes. The adaptation is completely faithful, too, as Paul falls headfirst for the lovely Mrs Beste-Chetwynde (“Beast Cheating”) played by Desperate Housewives’ Eva Longoria.
SUMMARY
New series. Jack Whitehall, David Suchet, Eva Longoria, Tim Pigott-Smith and Douglas Hodge lead an all-star cast in James Wood's adaptation of Evelyn Waugh's comic novel. Oxford University divinity student Paul Pennyfeather is wrongly dismissed for indecent exposure, having been made the victim of a prank. He seeks employment at an obscure public school in Wales, where he encounters the glamorous mother of one of the pupils. For Paul it is love at first sight, but little does he know the surprises that lie ahead of him when he agrees to tutor her son over the summer holidays.
http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programm...
First episode is on 31 March 2017.
Hurrah!
I'm not familiar with Eva Longoria however agree with this headline...Eva Longoria is like you've never seen her before as she slips into full 1920s costume for the BBC's new Evelyn Waugh period drama is like you've never seen her before as she slips into full 1920s costume for the BBC's new Evelyn Waugh period drama
...based on the photos that accompany this article...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/...
Amazing what a period costume and make up can do eh?
I have no idea who she is, but I will certainly have a peek at the first episode and see what it is like. Anything which brings about interest in Waugh is great.
Mod
Nigeyb wrote: "Susan wrote: "Not sure where to post this. There is a new Evelyn Waugh adaptation of "Decline and Fall" on BBC soon if anyone is interested:http://www.bbc.co.uk/progra..."
Those clips look excellent - can't wait!
Mod
I thought that Eva Longoria took a great part...still not sure about Jack Whitehall, he always looks like he's about to burst out laughing, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in this case.
My worry is that the gentle humour that you get from these old books doesn't always work on screen. I was pleasantly surprised by this adaptation but I wondered how those who had never read the book took it!
I recorded it, Ally. Going to collect my son from Uni today, but will hopefully get to it tomorrow.
I just watched half of it, Ally, and thought it was fun. I haven't had much time today, as I've been baby sitting, but it was better than I expected.
Very good opening episode. Jack Whitehall is suitably guileless and passive. Actually the whole cast are superb. My teenage kids enjoyed it too, which is saying something. I'll be interested to see how it develops once we get into the darker territory of the novel's middle and latter stages.
I really enjoyed the BBC adaptation - as did the rest of my family including two teenagers. Jack Whitehall was an inspired piece of casting but he was just one of many great turns. Superb stuff. I loved it.
I loved it too, as did my husband - Jack Whitehall was quite a revelation as an actor, and Douglas Hodge was hilarious as Grimes. I thought the first episode was a bit slow but it really got going once it moved away from the school setting, which is also what I thought about the book!
Bright Young Things
Books mentioned in this topic
Decline and Fall (other topics)Decline and Fall (other topics)
Kim (other topics)
The Secret Lives of Somerset Maugham: A Biography (other topics)
The Paying Guests (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Evelyn Waugh (other topics)Evelyn Waugh (other topics)
Sam Selvon (other topics)
Evelyn Waugh (other topics)
Alienated from Stalinism, Padmore nevertheless remained a socialist and sought new ways to work for African independence from imperial rule. Relocating in France where he had an ally from his Comintern days, Garan Kouyaté, Padmore set to work on a book -- How Britain Rules Africa. With the help of former heiress Nancy Cunard, he found a London agent and, eventually, a publisher (Wishart), which brought the book out in 1936, the year the publisher became Communist publishers Lawrence and Wishart. It was a time when publication of books by black men was rare in the United Kingdom. A Swiss publisher distributed a German translation in Germany.[13]