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Decline and Fall
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June 2015- Decline and Fall by Evelyn Waugh
This was the first Waugh I read - as a 13/14 year old. I loved it then and I loved it when I read it again a few years ago. I listened to the BBC Radio dramatisation a couple of weeks back and it bought it all back. I look forward to discussing this one, and seeing what others make of it.
I enjoyed Waugh's early novels, although the first I read was "Brideshead Revisited," prompted by the tv series in the 1980's. I do think it is interesting the way his writing got darker after his divorce - this novel and the one which follows it are very light in comparison to later books.
Susan wrote: "I do think it is interesting the way his writing got darker after his divorce - this novel and the one which follows it are very light in comparison to later books."I know what you mean Susan however, this time round, I was struck by the undercurrent of darkness beneath the satire and indeed a deconstruction of the social divisions of the 1920s - and which are still just as prevalent today.
Hapless, guileless Paul Pennyfeather is a victim of life's vicissitudes and most of his troubles are directly caused by richer and more powerful individuals. Furthermore, when Paul finally makes it to the top table, courtesy of the duplicitous Margot Beste-Chetwynde he finds an empty vacuous world.
I wonder to what extent this was Waugh’s bitterness and early signs of the dark heart we find in most (all?) of his novels.
I've just picked up my copy from the library and am excited to see whether this is the book that will change my views on Waugh. At the moment I've read 'Scoop' and 'Brideshead Revisited' and can't see what the fuss is about. However, I've had lots of people say that 'Decline and Fall' is his best work. I will report back!
I would put "Brideshead" as his best work, although that is a personal view. I fell in love with Waugh when I read that book...Nigeyb, you are right - as always - though. Decline and Fall is very much satire, rather than light humour. I think Waugh always had that sharp, rather unkind, bitter sarcastic feel to his writing.
Lori wrote: "I've had lots of people say that 'Decline and Fall' is his best work. I will report back!"Really? Hmmmm
I agree with Susan...
Susan wrote: "I would put "Brideshead" as his best work"
Joint equal, along with the wonderful Sword of Honour
Lori wrote: "I've just picked up my copy from the library and am excited to see whether this is the book that will change my views on Waugh."
Fingers crossed.
Lori wrote: "At the moment I've read 'Scoop' and 'Brideshead Revisited' and can't see what the fuss is about."
Scoop is more inconsequential than many of his books - but still a lot of fun. Brideshead on the other hand is one of my favourite books of all time. At the risk of sounding like a pessimist, I suspect that if Brideshead left you wondering "what the fuss is about" then D&F is probably not going to change matters. Still I hope I'm proved wrong. He's one of my favourite writers and so I hope you can will find a way to appreciate his gifts.
Please do let us know how you get on.
I love Brideshead too, so I'm looking forward to this one. I think it will be interesting to see what his early work was like. I wouldn't mind reading Helena Helena later, as he seemed to consider it his greatest work, though it wasn't so popular.
I read this short book a few weeks ago now and my reaction kept changing - I enjoyed the very start, wasn't keen on some bits in the middle, but really liked the later sections and the ending. So if anyone else reacts similarly, I'd encourage them to keep going!
I've just found a long article, with lots of photos, by Duncan McLaren about the real-life school in Wales where Waugh briefly taught, and the real-life inspiration for Captain Grimes - another teacher called Dick Young, who, it's said here, also wrote a novel featuring Waugh as a character. A couple of warnings - don't read this piece unless you have read the novel, as it contains spoilers. Also, I have to say that some bits of the article could be disturbing.
http://www.evelynwaugh.org.uk/styled-...
Thanks Judy, I'll take a look at the article after I've read the book.
I'm still in the middle of rereading this, but I do love Waugh. I should probably just buckle down and finish it...Pink, Helena is quite good. I didn't realize it was his personal favorite/best.
Judy wrote: "I've just found a long article, with lots of photos, by Duncan McLaren about the real-life school in Wales where Waugh briefly taught, and the real-life inspiration for Captain Grimes..."That was fascinating Judy - and shocking. How things have changed in the intervening years. Thankfully.
Ha! Have not started yet. Will start next week just finishing Frankenstein for another reading group. I don't think that I've read this one before.
Ok will read book then the article to the link. Ta!
Nigeyb wrote: "That was fascinating Judy - and shocking. How things have changed in the intervening years. Thankfully. "Thanks, Nigeyb - I totally agree with you.
I've finished so will now report back. I must say I did not have high hopes when I started this book. Scoop and Brideshead had left me underwhelmed, as I said earlier. However, having finished, I am pleased to say that I finally (finally!) understand why people enjoy Waugh. This was a fast-paced, enjoyable and darkly amusing book - exactly the sort of thing I like! Some great turns of phrase in there too "...all that was most sonorous of name and title was there for the beano" and "All this the newspapers retailed with uncontrolled profusion, and many a young reporter was handsomely commended for the luxuriance of his adjectives". Wonderful!
Judy said:
I read this short book a few weeks ago now and my reaction kept changing - I enjoyed the very start, wasn't keen on some bits in the middle, but really liked the later sections and the ending. So if anyone else reacts similarly, I'd encourage them to keep going!
I agree.
I recently listened to David Mitchell (the comedian, not the writer) on Desert Island Discs and he chose this as his Desert Island book, saying it was the funniest book he’d ever read. This meant I could not help picturing Paul Pennyfeather as looking exactly like David Mitchell all the time I was reading! Fairly sure Waugh was thinking of Paul Pennyfeather as quite a bit younger - nevermind.
Thanks, Judy, for the interesting article about the real life school that was the basis for Llanabba. You always find the greatest supplementary info for us!
^ Seconded - and thanks from me too. Are you a researcher in real life Judy?
I really enjoyed Decline and Fall. It was certainly not on the level of Sword of Honor or Brideshead Revisited, but it was a delightful read.I'd recently listened to the BBC adaptation that someone (Judy? Nigeyb?) recommended, so I had a pretty good idea of the story, but the book was so much better. There were several times when I burst out laughing at Waugh's humor. I especially loved the Arnold Bennett comment in the Resurrection chapter.
What I didn't love were Waugh's racist remarks. I know such attitudes were widespread and socially acceptable at the time, but I still find it shocking and disappointing that Waugh would participate. And given that his homosexual affairs made him part of a forbidden and despised group himself, it does seem to me that he should have had more sensitivity. I had to remind myself that he was also scathing in his judgment of the upper classes, that he wasn't "just" singling out one group. I do wonder what he was like in his personal relationships with others.....
As in Sword of Honor, Waugh's use of names was often hilarious. Grimes, Clutterbuck, Tangent, Viscount Metroland, lady Circumference--funny and appropriate.
The little poems and Waugh's own illustrations added to my enjoyment of the book too.
And I loved Professor Silenus's explanation of life as being like the wheel at Luna Park. It was the highlight of the book for me.
So glad to have read this!
Barbara, thanks for the great comments. I really liked the book overall, but agree with you about the racist remarks - the sports day section hit a particular low point in this regard. As you say, such attitudes were widespread, but I always tend to hope for better from great writers.
Waugh repeatedly and hilariously mocks class divides in this novel, with Pennyfeather's "decline and fall" happening as he gets the blame for actions carried out by people from a higher social bracket - like the yobbish louts at the Oxford college. Then there's Grimes getting away with all kinds of things just because he is an ex-public schoolboy.
When Waugh can point out this kind of thing so hilariously, it's a shame that he doesn't extend his insight to racism. I do wonder if his views changed later, though, as he was very young when he wrote this.
Glad you both found that article interesting, Barbara and Nigeyb, and many thanks for the nice comments. I do enjoy searching out background info on our books. I'm not exactly a researcher but do often have to check things out on the net in the course of my work, plus I also write a blog and research things for that too!
^ Racist attitudes were so endemic in the era that no one but the most enlightened (did such even people exist?) would have thought about challenging or questioning them. The N-word crops up time and again in the novels of our era, along with associated attitudes.When I was growing up in the 1970s in the UK, casual use of racial epithets was still very commonplace and could be heard on mainstream TV shows and in everyday conversation. I only recall this starting to be questioned in the late 1970s onwards. With that in mind it comes as no surprise that back in the 1920s and 30s such attitudes were even more acceptable and unquestioned.
Nigeyb wrote: "^ Racist attitudes were so endemic in the era that no one but the most enlightened (did such even people exist?) would have thought about challenging or questioning them. The N-word crops up time ..."Agreed. It's never nice to read about, but would be more unexpected not to find these attitudes in our reading era.
It would be interesting to read some books by black authors living in Britain at this period, and get a different angle on the racism. Does anyone have any suggestions?On the class issue, I was interested to see how different the portrayal of Oxford is in this novel and in 'Brideshead Revisited'. In some ways it's similar - Sebastian being sick into Charles's room isn't a million miles away from the antics of the rich students in 'Decline and Fall'.
But the feeling is completely different - in 'D&F' they are just yobs, whereas in 'Brideshead' (which I also love) this whole glamorous and dreamy nostalgia grows up around the charmed lifestyle.
C L R James was writing in the 1930s. I can't think of any Black British writers writing during the 1920s but only 18th and 19th Century ones besides 20th Century black writers.Not long ago read a sci-if book for a goth reading group, by Octavia Butler, Dawn. It was very good, very thought provoking.
Was Jean Rhys mixed on her mother's side?
Thanks, Roisin. I wondered if there might also be some authors who were writing later but recalled their experiences in the 1920s or 30s, but I can't think of anyone.
I can't either. Might have do some research. : )
Judy wrote: "It would be interesting to read some books by black authors living in Britain at this period, and get a different angle on the racism. Does anyone have any suggestions?..."I cannot think of a single one and I've just spent 20 minutes googling black british authors in the early 20th century...nothing. I can think of many before and after our period, or plenty of American authors for this time frame, but nothing for Britain. Not even from later authors writing about this time. There must be something?
His Letters From London is available in book format.
Well, googling I found this page: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...It does look like C. L. R. James is the only one who is in our period at all. A number of others were born in it and a few died, but no one else published in it that I can see. (I did look quick though.) James wrote a play about Toussaint Louverture, so that's cool. :)
He popped up in the list I found. I didn't notice that he had some written about the period, just none published during.I'm still looking.
Well, if anyone has access to History Today, this looks like it could be very interesting...behind a paywall, though. Black People in Britain: The 1930s
http://www.historytoday.com/barbara-b...
Judy wrote: "It would be interesting to read some books by black authors living in Britain at this period, and get a different angle on the racism. Does anyone have any suggestions?"Good question Judy.
There seems to be very little in our time period, from a quick search.
This is a free article: http://www.history.ac.uk/makinghistor...
There is C18th and early C19th writing associated with the abolition of slavery movement and there are plenty of novels relating to the immigrant experience in the latter half of the C20th. There are also novels, poetry, etc. written by non-white British citizens living outside the British Isles.
If anyone finds something suitable it would be a good nomination for a future monthly read.
Thanks for those Miss M and Val. The free history article was interesting. I have a book by Peter Fryer. Surprised though that she didn't mention the extensive, very good research by Basil Davidson and J A Rogers. I picked up a first edition of his Nature Knows No Colour Line about over twenty years ago, which looks at black people in history, different countries too. Very good book.
I found these from Spartacus educational site: http://spartacus-educational.com/SLAa...
http://spartacus-educational.com/SLAw...
At the bottom of the page on the second link is a quote from a black person in Britain in 1900 who attended the The Pan African Congress which happened at Westminster Town Hall.
I found these from Spartacus educational site: http://spartacus-educational.com/SLAa...
http://spartacus-educational.com/SLAw...
At the bottom of the page on the second link is a quote from a black person in Britain in 1900 who attended the The Pan African Congress which happened at Westminster Town Hall.
Found this! Don't know if this was mentioned before. There is a chapter on Decline And Fall which makes a lot of interesting points.http://acumen.lib.ua.edu/content/u001...
This other article looks at black people on the music scene.
http://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/b...
Also, I forgot about Paul Robeson who was active at this time. He had an affair while married, with Peggy Aschcroft, which might have had an influence on Waugh, perhaps for the character of Chomondley.
I listened to the radio dramatisation, which I thought was very good.I have now found my old paperback as well, so I will read it again some time this month.
I've started reading it. Very funny so far.
Val wrote: "I listened to the radio dramatisation, which I thought was very good."Isn't it? I loved it. I even contacted the person who adapted it - Jeremy Front - to say how much I liked it. He seemed pleased to be acknowledged.
Val wrote: "I have now found my old paperback as well, so I will read it again some time this month."
Hurrah. Even better still.
It was good. It captured the atmosphere of the story very well.
Thanks, everyone, for all the great links about black authors and residents in the UK around our period - sorry to be slow in replying, but I've been away for a few days.
No problem! I noticed that Val and Nigeyb have read and recommend The Lonely Londoners.
It is not in our era, but it is definitely worth reading.
Yes, of course, a bit later. : )
Thanks, Roisin and Val - I'll bear it in mind.
Bright Young Things
Books mentioned in this topic
Decline and Fall (other topics)Decline and Fall (other topics)
Kim (other topics)
The Secret Lives of Somerset Maugham: A Biography (other topics)
The Paying Guests (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Evelyn Waugh (other topics)Evelyn Waugh (other topics)
Sam Selvon (other topics)
Evelyn Waugh (other topics)
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