Classics Shelf Culling - [cull is now closed]

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

CULLING FROM THE CLASSICS SHELF
We're needing to free some space on the Classics book shelf at the moment, so this is the thread to nominate books that you think should be REMOVED from the shelf.



Just post a comment to this thread naming the book/s you think should NOT be on our Classics shelf, and why. If nobody disagrees with that choice by the end of the month, that book will be removed.

One really good reason to nominate books to be removed from the shelf could be that the author is over-represented on this shelf. The list of authors with more than two books on this shelf is here:
P.G. Wodehouse - 3 books
John Steinbeck - 3 books
George Orwell - 3 books
Herman Melville - 3 books
Thomas Hardy - 3 books
Charles Dickens - 4 books

So please go and have a look at the book shelf and let us know what you think shouldn't be there: CLASSICS

Let the vigorous debate commence!

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

I'm going to nominate these two for starters. They're already on the Children's Classics shelf, and that's the reason we started a separate Children's Classics shelf to begin with - to delineate between adult/children and save some shelf space.
Peter Pan
Winnie-the-Pooh

[Whitney]

For Steinbeck, I'd say Cannery Row is the one to lose. It's an inferior work to 'Of Mice and Men' and 'Grapes of Wrath'. Choosing between those two is harder. While I personally prefer 'Mice', I'd say lose it and keep 'Grapes'. It's THE document of The Dustbowl era, and it's had social effects beyond it's existence as just 'a good book'.

Plus, Tom Joad's "I'll be there" speech is immortal.

[Riona]

Ruby wrote: "I'm going to nominate these two for starters. They're already on the Children's Classics shelf, and that's the reason we started a separate Children's Classics shelf to begin with - to delineate be..."

I think it makes sense to get rid of these two if they're already on the children's classic shelf. No need for redundancy!

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Re: Steinbeck - I totally agree with everyone so far with regard to the Steinbeck books. The Grapes of Wrath is an all-time favourite of mine, and the book I've probably read more times than any other.

Re: Adam's List - I have to disagree with culling The Stranger.When a book is taught in high school English classes all over the world, AND there's a Cure song about it (Killing An Arab), I really don't think you can say it's not a classic!

I think there are a couple of others on there that are VERY well known - The Plague, Hedda Gabler, Ficciones and Beloved, all of which I'm sure I've seen as Penguin Classic editions, (and by 'seen" I mean "have most of them on my shelf". :)
I haven't read any of them, though, so I'm not vetoing their nominations.... at this time. :)

I think there may be other Borges books besides Ficciones that fit this category more nicely, but I'll leave that to the experts.

[Derek]

Surely Beloved is too new to be a classic... Yes it's over 20 years old, but 25? Otherwise the only ones on Adam's list that I'm familiar with are the Camus books, Down and Out in Paris and London and Palace Walk. I agree that The Stranger absolutely belongs on the Classics shelf, but could stand to lose the rest (except maybe Hedda Gabler which I at least knew enough about to be able to name the author!).

[Derek]

I know I stand zero chance of getting Moby Dick voted off the island, because boring or not, it's generated more than enough discussion for almost 200 years that I guess it really has to be considered a classic, but Bartleby the Scrivener? Really? I maintain that if people weren't still talking about Melville because of Moby Dick, then Bartleby the Scrivener would be entirely forgotten. Billy Budd is at least vaguely remembered.

[Whitney]

This is a post where I mostly agree with a lot of stuff that was just said.

As soon as I read Adam's list, I was about to jump to a defense of The Stranger, now I see I'm not needed. Also agree, Moby Dick is the keeper in the Melville group. Bartleby has it's own cult following (and even a Crispin Glover movie), but definitely not the impact of MD.

Borges deserves a place; he's still very influential, especially among writers. Since he's best know for individual short stories it's difficult to pick one collection, but I think Ficciones is a good representation.

I love Beloved, The Bloody Chamber, and Palace Walk, but agree they shouldn't be on a classics shelf yet.

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Derek wrote: "I agree that The Stranger absolutely belongs on the Classics shelf, but could stand to lose the rest (except maybe Hedda Gabler which I at least knew enough about to be able to name the author!).
..."

Pretty much my sentiments exactly!

Happy to cull books that are under a certain age, once we can agree what that is! I feel like I'm not really qualified to answer that question since i don't read many classics. Is there a definition used elsewhere that we could steal?

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

With regard to Melville, based on discussions so far, I'm nominating Billy Budd, Sailor for removal.

[Ed]

I'm prejudiced here; Moby Dick is my favorite work of fiction, so I think that should stay. Melville's earlier works, like Omoo and Typee are good reads, but not, imho, "classics." Billy Budd,Sailor is probably one of Melville's most accessible stories, but I think it falls more into the same category as Omoo and Typee than Moby Dick.

I'm certainly stating the obvious, but I think each book should be evaluated on its merits, without regard to what other works the author may have listed as classics, so how many books an author has on the classics' shelf should not be a criterion.

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Swampyankee wrote: "I'm prejudiced here; Moby Dick is my favorite work of fiction, so I think that should stay. Melville's earlier works, like Omoo and Typee are good reads, but not, imho, "classics." Billy Budd,Sai..."

In this case though, since the shelf is going to have limited places, and given the aim of the group, I think it's good to have a wide range of authors and not focus too heavily on one or another. That said, the numbers we're talking about above (mostly 3 books per author out of around 100), I don't think balance is a big issue for us so far.

So personally, I'm..... ambivalent :)

[Derek]

Whitney wrote: "I love Beloved, The Bloody Chamber, and Palace Walk, but agree they shouldn't be on a classics shelf yet."

I don't know The Bloody Chamber at all, and have avoided Toni Morrison completely, just because I've heard her interviewed too often and the best adjective I can come up with is "precious". Gag me... But I have read Palace Walk and a few other of Naguib Mahfouz's works, and I love them - I just don't think they are yet classics (but can you believe that if you try to use the "add book/author" link to get a link to Naguib Mahfouz, by typing "mahfouz" - it DOESN'T find the Nobel laureate?!!!)

Perhaps if we want recent authors like Mahfouz and Morrison to have a shelf, we should have "favourite books by Nobel laureates" (in which case, I'd want to include My Name is Red, too). otoh, there should be a Nobel list somewhere on GoodReads already. Of course, if there isn't - we're the people to do it!

On the subject of Nobels: I've always sneered at "Literature", especially when capitalized. Then one day I decided to see how many authors who'd got a Nobel I'd read - and it turned out, more than 50% of them, and almost all of the ones who are listed as "English language" (e.g., not Mahfouz & Pamuk - who I've only read in translation - but also not Samuel Beckett and a couple of others whose works have been published in English by the author).

[Derek]

btw, I think one decent rule of thumb (but not in itself sufficient) for the age of a classic is that the author has to be already dead. I mean, if I ever got published, and people actually called my work "classic", I'd die of embarrassment!

[Jessica]

What does removing the book from the bookshelf do? Does that mean it's removed from future reading as a book club pick, or does that mean it's already been read a long time ago, and removing it means it could be up as a pick in the future in this book club?

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Jessica wrote: "What does removing the book from the bookshelf do? Does that mean it's removed from future reading as a book club pick, or does that mean it's already been read a long time ago, and removing it mea..."

Group reads are separate from bookshelves. We nominate our group read books, rather than picking them from the shelf. Our shelves run on themes (explained in each bookshelf discussion thread). They're usually group members' recommended reading on a particular theme. The bookshelves are intended to be a reflection of the books we recommend as a group.

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Thanks everyone for the lively discussion! I'll start work on the bookshelves ASAP, and let you know when they're done. :)