The Last Olympian
discussion
Luke - How exactly was he a hero?
he was a hero because he sacrificed him to save the world, no matter what the consequence were and if he didn't then Olympus would have crumbled and there would be no gods. Also he was under Kronos' control and he was trying to resist and take back his body but he couldn't so he sacrificed himself which makes him a hero. Even if he did betray everyone and commit all those crimes in the end he still came through.
Luke had a hard life, and the gods were really never there for him. If I'd been in his position, I'd be torked too! He joined Kronos's Army because he was hurt.
And after being abandoned by his father, as Helena said, he did still pull through in the end. It was his sacrifice that saved everyone. The same goes for Silena. She was a traitor too, but in the end she saved many lives and sacrificed herself.
And after being abandoned by his father, as Helena said, he did still pull through in the end. It was his sacrifice that saved everyone. The same goes for Silena. She was a traitor too, but in the end she saved many lives and sacrificed herself.
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Luke had a hard life, and the gods were really never there for him. If I'd been in his position, I'd be torked too! He joined Kronos's Army because he was hurt. And after being abandoned by his fa..."
Agreed. He had a hard life, and he felt like his father deserted him. He was hurt and felt like a puppet. He joined Kronos because he thought if the Titans won, they wouldn't have deserted their children.
In the end, he realized the Titans were bad and sacraficed himself to stop them for winning:3
Mme. Catherine le Ninja Coréen wrote: "So betraying everyone, getting willingly possessed, and then proceeding to commit suicide is heroic how?He did kill Kronos, but that barely compensates for the deaths he caused both himself and b..."
No one says it compensates for his deeds, Mme. Those people still died, those people were still hurt. But what was important was that he realised what he had done was wrong. In the end, he gave his life to pay for it. Hasn't he been punished enough? Or is his own life not enough to pay for what he did? I think he was a hero, in the end, because he turned from those mistakes.
Ok, i really think, that Luke is a specific case, because, there's plenty cases that someone does something bad and after done, they try to compesate, like.. Silena.. Spy, but saved the day bringing Ares's cabin to the battle,and (****spoiler from The Son of Neptune****) Hazel... bringing Alcyoneus "back" to life, and sacrificing herself and her mother to try to delay his return.
But, what Luke did was HUGE, i mean, he's been planning this thing with Kronos since when !? ... The Lightning Thief book, or even before ? ...
So... he had plenty time to think about his acts, even if he was being under some Kronos's spell/influence, he still had a side pretty much conscious, and still... he did all that, which caused plenty deaths... So, for me, i really think that the sacrifice in the end.. was heroic, BUT the deaths he caused wasn't enough to compensate.
Tomaz95 wrote: "Ok, i really think, that Luke is a specific case, because, there's plenty cases that someone does something bad and after done, they try to compesate, like.. Silena.. Spy, but saved the day bringin..."But ... when someone does something like that, they're punished, and then set free! They aren't considered a criminal all their lives ... not if they change their ways, right? Luke was punished - he paid with his life! And yet we still think of him as the guy who helped Kronos.
ງດໂາຊກກຊ wrote: "[...] not if they change their ways, right? Luke was punished - he paid with his life! And yet we still think of him as the guy who helped Kronos.I know, but... ARRGH, i'm entering in conflit with my mind, I have a side that still says that it wasn't enough, and another side that says that considering his acts, like.. that time that Luke "spared" Annabeth, it all show that his acts wasn't 100% clear to him, and Kronos was really messing with his head, and in the end, his acts WERE enough, so.. I just don't know what to say... I just hope that Hermes talked with Hades to take Luke to Elysium... (good side talking) he was a good guy, and loved his mom, and... he had his problems and that really messed with him and I'm glad he understood, in the end and made the right thing.
I wouldn't consider him a hero but it was interesting that he realized his mistake and righted himself, that was the only part that was good about him
Luiz wrote: "ງດໂາຊກກຊ wrote: "[...] not if they change their ways, right? Luke was punished - he paid with his life! And yet we still think of him as the guy who helped Kronos.I know, but... ARRGH, i'm enteri..."
If you don't consider him a hero, why would you want him to go to Elysium?
Autumn wrote: "it takes a big man to make a mistake and stick with it but it takes a bigger man to admit that hes wrong and that is what luke did not to mention he is hot still not a hot as percy"Autumn ... o: What on earth does his looks have to do with whether he is guilty or not?!
Autumn wrote: "nothing just stating the facts what i was trying to say is he did a lot of bad things but he told himself that he was wrong and admitted it and that takes heart and guts"Right, OK. XD Good point ... I just got distracted by the "not to mention he is hot still not a hot as percy" part. o__O
He wasn't. He was a coward if he couldn't try to Kill percy in hand-to-hand combat and instead stung him with a scorpion. The fact that he framed him so that a war would begin between the god's is pure evil.
Maddy wrote: "He wasn't. He was a coward if he couldn't try to Kill percy in hand-to-hand combat and instead stung him with a scorpion. The fact that he framed him so that a war would begin between the god's is ..."If he was pure evil, how do you explain his change of ways at the end of the book? If he was purely evil, and happy with his actions, he would have continued. Let Kronos rule. But instead, he made all of his works in the past month for nothing, because he stopped it all. Without him, nothing would have ended happily. There would be no Heroes Of Olympus. No Percy. No Annabeth. How does that make sense?
Ok. You win :) I wasn't thinking of that I was looking for the negative instead of the positive.I guess he was a hero, in a sense. Sorry ;)
He really was a hero in the end because he actually sorta tried to stop Kronos. He told Percy and Annabeth where his Achilles was in the end so he/Kronos could be killed.
Agreed, Sheila. His sacrifice in the end stopped many more deaths
Maddy wrote: "Ok. You win :) I wasn't thinking of that I was looking for the negative instead of the positive.I guess he was a hero, in a sense. Sorry ;)"
Haha, no apology needed! That was a good discussion :) No one "wins" or "loses", I was just pointing out a fact xD. Sorry if I sounded harsh or ... something >3< I tend to do that :)
That is completely fine. I tend to do that too. That's the trouble with typing. You can't put expression in what you write and so what you're trying to say can be taken the wrong way.
Maddy wrote: "That is completely fine. I tend to do that too. That's the trouble with typing. You can't put expression in what you write and so what you're trying to say can be taken the wrong way."Exactly :) Thanks.
Luke Castellan sacrificed his life for the greater cause. He was abandoned by Hermes (which must have been especially bad for him, because of (view spoiler)) and don't tell me you would not have been bitter had you been him. If you really want to know Luke, read the Demigod Diaries.
He sacrificed himself. Yes he made bad choices leading up to it but I think its even more heroic to change from what he was to that point. He was a hero.
Faith wrote: "He sacrificed himself. Yes he made bad choices leading up to it but I think its even more heroic to change from what he was to that point. He was a hero."Agreed. Well put.
Shahdia wrote: "Luke Castellan sacrificed his life for the greater cause. He was abandoned by Hermes (which must have been especially bad for him, because of [spoilers removed]) and don't tell me you would not hav..."
That doesn't say whether or not he was a hero, Shahdia. Just because someone had a hard life, doesn't excuse their mistakes.
WHAT MORE REDEMPTION DO YOU WANT! He gave his life to stop Kronos, for crying out loud!
He spent the last few years of his life making bad choices. But in the end it's what you do with your life. Luke decided to use his life to save more. Yes, he killed along the way, but if he hadn't sacrificed himself in the end, even more than he had ever killed would be annihilated.
Shahdia wrote: "WHAT MORE REDEMPTION DO YOU WANT! He gave his life to stop Kronos, for crying out loud!"Woah, calm down :) I agree whole-heartedly with you - I believe Luke redeemed himself and was in fact a hero, if you read my older posts. I was just pointing out that just because he had a hard life didn't mean he died a hero :)
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "He spent the last few years of his life making bad choices. But in the end it's what you do with your life. Luke decided to use his life to save more. Yes, he killed along the way, but if he hadn't..."
Well said!
Well said!
I think he was a hero, because at the end.. he was willing to sacrifice himself for his friends. he wanted to be respected by the gods but they never did. He couldn't get his body back, so he killed himself, also leaving kronos withough a body an keeping the olympus/the world from crumbling down. It sounds dramatic, but I think that he truly was a hero. At the end he realised that he had made mistakes for the things he wanted, and at the end.. he did set them right..
I dont think he was a hero at all. He's kind of on a pedestal, like Silena and Zoe are: no one can touch them, or half the fandom will rip your throat out. Sure, he was neglected by the gods and his mom was not right in the head, but HEY Thalia and Annabeth had it as hard as him and never attempted murder at their own FRIENDS.
Bel wrote: "I dont think he was a hero at all. He's kind of on a pedestal, like Silena and Zoe are: no one can touch them, or half the fandom will rip your throat out. Sure, he was neglected by the gods and hi..."Hi Bel,
Just to assure you, I'm personally not a Luke fan. He was never one of my favourite characters, and so I promise not to rip your throat out.
However, I do not agree with you. You wrote: "Sure, he was neglected by the gods and his mom was not right in the head, but HEY Thalia and Annabeth had it as hard as him and never attempted murder at their own FRIENDS. "
Firstly: I don't blame Luke's evil on his bringing up. Yes, it was hard for him, but as you say, it was also hard for others. A lot of the time, it's hard for all of us. Everyone has evil inside them, and Luke let his take him over. Anyone who says that wasn't his fault, is incorrect. Of course it was his fault. Although later on he had less control over Kronos, he was still willing to be his servant. To destroy the world.
Therefore, he was a villain. Definately. He killed people. He became a servant of Kronos. Yep. But ... I don't believe he stayed that way. You seem to be focusing on what he did before he died. What's important, is that he repented of his evil. He knew he'd done wrong. He sacrificed himself for it. Sacrificing himself in itself wouldn't be much, but he actually saved Percy, Annabeth, and the world from what he had endangered to them. Although he couldn't bring all those he had killed back to life, and heal those who were hurt because of him, he did his best. And he almost undid what he had done.
How can a villain, a criminal and a murderer sacrifice himself, for his friends, for what he did??
But does this sacrifice make up for the lives Kronos took because of him? That's my point. He cant undo the past. He also cant save the world from something he brought upon it on the first place
Bel wrote: "But does this sacrifice make up for the lives Kronos took because of him? That's my point. He cant undo the past. He also cant save the world from something he brought upon it on the first place"Niether can anyone. Of course it doesn't "make up" for the lives that were lost. You can never make up for people who have been killed. You can't bring them back. (Unless you happen to be a child of Hades, maybe ...) I'm not saying that his sacrifice made up for what he did. I'm saying that even though he can't change what he did, we should forgive him anyway.
ງດໂາຊກກຊ ღ♣✽Hᴏʙʙɪᴛ ᴀɴᴅ Pʀᴏᴜᴅ✽♣ღ wrote: "Bel wrote: "But does this sacrifice make up for the lives Kronos took because of him? That's my point. He cant undo the past. He also cant save the world from something he brought upon it on the fi..."Maybe you're right. If Annabeth and Thalia forgave him, technically we all can...? But I think I'll never like him. At all.
Bel wrote: Maybe you're right. If Annabeth and Thalia forgave him, technically we all can...? But I think I'll never like him. At all. "Haha ... yeah, he was never my favourite character. I don't think I'd get on well with children of Hermes. Thanks for the discussion! :)
ງດໂາຊກກຊ ღ♣✽Hᴏʙʙɪᴛ ᴀɴᴅ Pʀᴏᴜᴅ✽♣ღ wrote: "Mme. Catherine le Ninja Coréen wrote: "So betraying everyone, getting willingly possessed, and then proceeding to commit suicide is heroic how?He did kill Kronos, but that barely compensates for ..."
I soo Agree with u :)
Bel wrote: "But does this sacrifice make up for the lives Kronos took because of him? That's my point. He cant undo the past. He also cant save the world from something he brought upon it on the first place"Bel,
you don't understand do you? He Knows He can't change the past but he did try to end it. You see if he hadn't sacrificed himself then more People will die and Kronos could have been more powerful so in this way Luke WAS a Hero .
Jessica wrote: I soo Agree with u :) "Thanks.
Jessica, I DO understand now how some people might see him as a hero. I personally do not, but I get your point.
And ... that discussion is over! Thank you! Applause. :)
Autumn wrote: "while he was total a backbiter ;) and toyed with the emotions of two very strong girls and left them in tears we must remeber he is hot and in the end did the right thing...
lol well said and secretly i always hoped hed end up with annabeth and percy either would free calypso and be withher or rachel but dont kill me.for.the.opinion gods!
Autumn wrote: "while he was total a backbiter ;) and toyed with the emotions of two very strong girls and left them in tears we must remeber he is hot and in the end did the right thing lol well said and secretly i always hoped hed end up with annabeth and percy either would free calypso and be withher or rachel but dont kill me.for.the.opinion gods!
Autumn wrote: "like Annenbeth I had a total crush on him and Percy so I was like extremely torn and cried a little but just before the end of book 5 I was . like o while his bad give it up but then he dose this ..."I'm sorry ... I just can't understand any of that :)
Luke was a hero in that he was originally fuelled by hatred and abandonment of the others and the gods. He genuinely thought he was doing it for the greater good. He still felt affection towards Annabeth (asking her to come with him) and he fails to kill Percy many times (he has no qualms against injuring Percy, but usually hesitates on the killing blow). He also changes under Kronus' control and tries to fight against it, and realises he's wrong a little too late. The fact he eventually sacrifices himself is really quite heroic.
Autumn wrote: "like Annenbeth I had a total crush on him and Percy so I was like extremely torn and cried a little but just before the end of book 5 I was . like o while his bad give it up but then he dose this ..."Its Annabeth -_- o.o
Jessica wrote: "Autumn wrote: "like Annenbeth I had a total crush on him and Percy so I was like extremely torn and cried a little but just before the end of book 5 I was . like o while his bad give it up but the..."and i don't understand what u wrote. But i had a crush on Percy but i didn't really care that they were dating i was wanting them to date and i was okay with it .
lol. wut. This has turned from a debate on whether Luke Castellan was a hero or not, to whether or not you have a crush on Percy, and if you're OK with him and Annabeth T_T
The Great Prophecy=a half-blood of the eldest gods (PERCY), shall reach sixteen against all odds (PERCY AGAIN), and see the world in endless sleep (Morpheus put a spell on the city of Manhattan), the HEROE'S soul, cursed blade shall reap(Luke=hero, cursed blade=the one he gave to annabeth), a single choice shall end his days(he dies in the end with the intent of stopping Kronos), Olympus to preserve or raze(HE SAVED OLYMPUS!!!!!) THEREFORE LUKE IS A HERO!
Emma wrote: "The Great Prophecy=a half-blood of the eldest gods (PERCY), shall reach sixteen against all odds (PERCY AGAIN), and see the world in endless sleep (Morpheus put a spell on the city of Manhattan), t..."Haha. Yes.
ງດໂາຊກກຊ ღ♣✽Hᴏʙʙɪᴛ ᴀɴᴅ Pʀᴏᴜᴅ✽♣ღ wrote: "Jessica wrote: I soo Agree with u :) "Thanks."
Np :)
Catherine die Epische Ninja für das Kaiserin wrote: "So betraying everyone, getting willingly possessed, and then proceeding to commit suicide is heroic how?"Yes, and Silena was a spy for Luke, yet she too is considered a hero by her friends. As the quote goes "It's not how you start. It's how you finish." Silena betrayed the camp, but in the end she made amends by rallying the Ares campers and defending her friends and fellow campers. Luke, feeling hurt and neglected by the Gods (especially his own father), fell victim to his fatal flaw: Hubris. He tried to remake a world where no demigod would feel as hurt as he did. Kronos took advantage of that flaw, but in the end, Luke fought back and sacrificed his own life to save the world.
Exactly what is your definition of a hero that he doesn't meet that?
Let's look at other greek "heroes":
-Heracles killed his own family
-Theseus abandoned Ariadne
-Jason left Medea for another woman
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He did kill Kronos, but that barely compensates for the deaths he caused both himself and by raising Kronos back to life. No, it does not undo his crimes.
Why do so many readers, plus the author, consider him a hero?