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T.J. Klune
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Please remove periods from author's name
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Madison
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Jan 04, 2013 08:33PM
Author TJ Klune is asking that his name be displayed as TJ Klune rather than T.J. Klune. When I tried changing it for him, the books were no longer linked to his author account.
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I'll let staff weigh in on that one. It's not database/librarian-manual standard to do an author initials without periods or to use nicknames. Staff will need to edit or merge the claimed author profile (regular librarians can't) if the exception gets approved.And likely to create future problems if any members enter books or search by this author by regular goodreads formats if his profile is different.
I'm not sure about time zones but usually there's no staff on weekends.
GR policy is to use periods between initials it's unlikely they will removed
Paula wrote: "GR policy is to use periods between initials it's unlikely they will removed"Yes. It would cause problems in the future not least from other authors who have weird name format. I've added this one to the GR Author merge thread for Rivka, with a link back here. I expect the request will be rejected.
Madison wrote: "Author TJ Klune is asking that his name be displayed as TJ Klune rather than T.J. Klune. When I tried changing it for him, the books were no longer linked to his author account."Madison, when you changed the author of one book (to TJ Klune) then it could not appear on his current author page anymore.
Thanks. If it helps, please note that his name is "TJ". The T and the J are not initials.
Madison wrote: "Thanks. If it helps, please note that his name is "TJ". The T and the J are not initials."Like BJ in MASH? Don't wqrry. Rivka will read this thread before she does anything about the request. I imagine the staff will discuss this one but I can't see how they can disallow a REAL name.
Banjomike wrote: "Like BJ in MASH? Don't wqrry. Rivka will read this thread before she does anything about the request. I imagine the staff will discuss this one but I can't see how they can disallow a REAL name. "I agree, but if I'm remembering correctly, they haven't made any exceptions in the past, even though there's been at least one author who was in the same boat as TJ (can't remember which thread it was...)
❂ Jennifer wrote: "I agree, but if I'm remembering correctly, they haven't made any exceptions in the past, even though there's been at least one author who was in the same boat as TJ (can't remember which thread it was...)"I too remember that. It was in one of the merge GR author threads IIRC.
If the author does not use the periods they should be removrd
@Jeanne, librarian manual section on at http://www.goodreads.com/librarian_ma... says doesn't matter. Periods get used in the goodreads database record. Even if not on the bookcover or not used by author.Needs a staff member to make an exception. And if a nickname or initials versus a legal name...not likely...but their call. So I'm not saying what will get done on this issue, just that whether or not author uses the periods doesn't matter and that it's not something a librarian gets to edit without a staff exception.
Usually a real name of "TJ" would be capitalized as "Tj" and be very hard to pronounce. I believe this name is most likely pronounced "tee" "jay" and refers to initials or a nickname. Just my opinion.
Would be an easier sale to me if he didn't refer to himself as "T^J^Kline" (where ^ is a space) on his own websites/blog/posts and the bookcover did not show the periods or if we were being asked to change from "T.J." To "Tj"
next time a book or new cover edition gets added, the person adding is really likely to match spelling on the bookcover without looking for threads like this one *sigh* so we'll likely keep having to edit. Most of us would auto-edit initials missing periods when we see without even looking to see if a thread was discussing.
Debbie (Debbie Rice) wrote: "Would be an easier sale to me if he didn't refer to himself as "T^J^Kline" (where ^ is a space) on his own websites/blog/posts and the bookcover did not show the periods or if we were being asked to change from "T.J." To "Tj" "As far as editions go, I count only a couple using periods and they are the oldest editions. On the website linked from his author page I can only see TJ except on the cover from the bookseller site.
Difficult decisions. If it really IS his name... That is why the PTB get the Big Money (and T-shirts). Anyway, we have no more say in the matter.
Don't forget that some languages would allow a single letter (not an initial) in a name.
Yes, but in other languages that's more commonly a vowel, "n" "m" "y" or a "d" and letter j would usually be followed by an apostrophe or else we would be looking at "TJ" as a transliteration of a language that doesn't use the letter "t" or the letter "J"The video interview on his goodreads feed does pronounce the name "tee jay" and does appear to be an English speaking author. Since he is a goodreads author, I can't view the librarian change log on his profile to see who entered the description; his url link to his blog definitely showed "T^J^Klune" there and not "TJ^Klune".
Staff can view and ask him themselves.
Mod
Correct.
But what about in this case when it's NOT Initials? Did a search and it looks like Amazon lists as Tj, Facebook does, Barnes N Nobles, etc... as Tj is his name. But the book cover for one of his books lists it as initials. His other book doesn't list it as initials
Hi, just thought I'd see what all the fuss was about and went to TJ's author page here on GR and found evidence to disprove that his 'real' name is TJ. In the below review of his own book he signs off as 'Travis'. I believe that this should count as evidence against changing or confusing GR policy on initialised names and whether they should have periods or not.http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
TJ Klune is going to make it harder for potential readers to find him on Goodreads if the periods are removed so I hope he has considered that acceding to his request might result in lowering his visibility and thus his income.
I also note that at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/... he has made this statement about Goodreads listing his name with periods:"And, for some reason, my name keeps getting changed to T.J., instead of TJ. That is also obviously not the blurb for the book. Blargh. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
But you know what? Fuck it."
If he says "F**k it" regarding this issue, then he cannot be all that concerned about how his name appears on Goodreads so why should GR change it?
Quote from this blog:http://sylvre.com/tag/tj-klune/
"For the record, my author name is a pseudonym, the T and J being initials for my first and middle name. My name is Travis."
'Nuff said, I expect.
Banjomike wrote: "Quote from this blog:http://sylvre.com/tag/tj-klune/
"For the record, my author name is a pseudonym, the T and J being initials for my first and middle name. My name is Travis."
'Nuff said, I ex..."
Well, why on earth did he start, or rather have someone else start, a thread that has consumed so much time and energy. The OP states, in their second message, that TJ is his real name, as in what's written on his birth certificate, obviously that's not true as quoted from his own mouth and hands on the keyboard. I think maybe a moderator (if they have time to worry about small stuff like this) should freeze this thread as it should now be considered a closed subject, no longer open to anymore discussion.
It isn't small stuff to the person affected. In my family there were "double initial" first names, no periods. JD, for examples. Why, I don't know, but there it is.Also, it's a little presumptuous to assume that anyone other than the individual carrying the name knows better than that individual what their name is, is it not? For example, what if it was decided that the "official" spelling of Sarah will be SARA from now on, like it or not?
A simple librarian comment on his Author page would solve the problem, example, "TJ this author's preferred way of spelling/punctuating his name, please do not change."
Really, sometimes I wonder exactly who put various librarians/book page editors in charge of making decisions regarding the way other people spell or pronounce their names around here. Geesh.
No one put librarians in charge. Goodreads staff are in charge and have set database/library standards, put in a librarian manual for public viewing (how many sites do that?), state in TOS they can maintain database integrity as they see fit (okay, that's common to most sites).With those standards in place, due to volume of books, volunteer librarians who adhere to those standards help maintain that database. Librarians who don't adhere get privileges revoked.
It is goodreads database and not anyone's product pages.
It's (1) a database issue. Goodreads terms of service are clear about getting to do things their way to maintain database.(2) experience of staff, librarians and readers on goodreads has been that anyone adding a book will match what is shown on the bookcover. So editions would not get combined, new books when added would not show on his author profile (then when he would go to add it would tell him the isbn was already in use...)
(3) members expect (once they get used to the goodreads search feature) to find authors by searching for names according to publicized standards.
(4) as much time as this thread has taken up, multiply a few dozen hours or more for the time that would be spent in merging the duplicate books added by members looking at a "T.J." on the book cover so carefully as a courtesy to the author and in an attempt to follow goodreads policies. Then changes back and forth...
And with all that, at least if author name on the bookcover had shown "TJ" and it really was a name versus initials (in defense of original poster, they apparently were convinced it was not initials), I think a requested exception would have had a better reception. Plus, less time spent cleaning up after members carefully adding by what they saw on bookcover if that was what they saw on the bookcover.
I'm not the only librarian who will see 3 or more member added books—with the exact same title and except for periods in initials the exact same author name—who will make consistent with database standards so they all show up on the author's profile with his other books without searching through group discussion threads to see if was being discussed.
As to family names, I have an Uncle JC (on the birth certificate) and an Uncle A.C. (because we had four other living Archie Caldwells in the family and he did not to be called "Junior").
So, not arguing that a real name can't be two letters and no periods. My Uncle JC has had to use initials to get payroll checks and bank accounts from systems whose database had same issues as goodreads' database, union paperwork, etc.
I am arguing that it would cause issues here on goodreads book data pages that the book product pages in other site's databases apparently don't have (good luck currently at amazon getting all an author's books on their page right now much less kindle, paperback and hardcover formats together for title).
I'll also argue that once an author is made a goodreads author, that (1) no, librarians cannot then add a librarian note explaining the exception (2) if a staff member intervened to add a librarian note for a goodreads author explaining, well, librarians cannot edit the author profile to see that librarian note and (3) members wouldn't see the librarian note (plus if they could track down the author profile to look for a note they wouldn't be adding a book under different spelling). A librarian note visible on an author profile only when you "edit data" which cannot be done for a goodreads author by members or regular librarians.
A general rule of thumb for book database is to match book cover information when available except for allCAPS (even if the cover has odd spellings, punctuations, and/or capitalizations to someone not familiar with that edition's language rules or other oddities). Once an accurate for the book cover for that edition is in place, it is a "single opinion" that everyone can see and use.
At this time, goodreads does not have an aka or pseudonym feature. If/when they do implement one, could make it possible to make "T.J. Klune" and "TJ Klune" books both show up on one author profile. But that's not something librarians can program (it is a very popular feature wanted over in the feedback suggestions thread).
Big long wordy talk, sorry for the length. For me, more simply matching to what bookcover shows works. If we had to stop and trackdown threads or communicate with authors or publishers before adding the bookcover information...well I guess more librarians would have to get added. We're not in charge of anything; it's just such a massive database undertaking that goodreads staff asked for volunteers. And these discussions try to come up with workable solutions and consistencies but decide nothing until Rivka or another staff member makes a ruling.
The pseudonym feature would be helpful. Hopefully that will happen one day...In the meantime, to clarify:
1. The author's legal name (on his birth certificate) is Travis.
2. His professional name is TJ.
3. The first edition of his first novel shows T.J. Klune on the cover.
4. Subsequent editions of that book and all other books by this author show TJ Klune on the cover.
Well, then the author profile showing periods will work fine for subsequent editions with or without periods on bookcover. If added by author, he'll know to put periods to go on his goodreads author page (would still have gone there and existing books there would have auto converted if a staff member had granted exception and changed name on his author profile) . If added by librarians, adhering to manual, will go to his author profile because they will type the periods. If added by members familiar with goodreads, they'll add the periods. If added by members not familiar, well, no telling how they'll add but librarians frequently have to correct odd member additions and the database gets cleaned up o add periods fairly regularly.We're familiar with how the database works and, with existing features, what gets handled easily in the work flow and what creates odd bottlenecks or issues with inconsistencies that breed more and more changes/debate/arguing until a decision on what will be the standard gets made by goodreads staff.
Not arguing the right or wrongs of it with you (and personally I wish they would implement pseudonym and handling odd author name confusions that lead to author's books not on their page and member searches failing to find ). But, in existing database, existing procedures, and existing features—periods are put in.
And back to the original post, an exception to the rule would have to come from staff, usually Rivka. And the request was turned down.
Not sure what you are expecting us librarians to do now that staff answered the request by "clarifyng" anything.
(Or why a different poster was making the what-gives-you-the-right or who-decided types of comments. Like most sites, goodreads terms of service states pretty much their-site/their-rules and emphasizes there and other places that they specifically will protect data integrity. I honestly do not know of a lot of site that says otherwise. Staff has spoken; and are more generous than most sites at allowing a discussion leading up to decisions because they want an active, booklover community . But that community, even librarians volunteering to help maintain data, does not get to re-do the database counter to staff decisions or established standards.)
Mod
He is not the first author to make such a claim about their name, contrary to evidence, and I'm sure he's not the last. Nonetheless, GR policy remains the same.
Dutch wrote: "No, it doesn't. I just did a search for "TJ Klune" on GR's search and easily found him, periods and all. "You are right. Great! He still did write in his blog "But you know what? F*ck it." in response to this issue, so if that's his decision he can't be all that concerned about how his name appears on Goodreads.
