David Estes Fans and YA Book Lovers Unite! discussion
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What pushes a book from good to great to incredible?
That's a difficult question. Sometimes I think what makes an incredible book is more of a feeling that somethign concrete. For example I love the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning, there is nothing that really compares with it. And when I do think about it, I can point out some minpoints of the book, but still it is a series I keep thinking about. There are some things that are really important for me in a book and those are: story, characters and world building. Books that excell on all those three points almost always get 5 stars for me. I also love original stories, so if you have an original story that also does well on those 3 points it often is in incredible book. But sometimes it also is something more. More feeling I guess. I alose love the Darkness Rising series by Kelley Armstrong and a part of this is because of the descriptions of the surrounding and I like the book because it makes me feel like I actually live there surrounded by nature.
Really I have no idea if I actually made sense. I think it's very difficult to define what makes a good book a great book and a great book an incredible book, because sometimes there just isn't reason behind it. And some of my 5 star books got those 5 stars for entirely different reasons.
I doubt this really answers your question, but I do have many 5♥ books that I will NEVER read again. Yes, they were good and deserved that rating, but I can't bring myself to re-live the reading, or if I know a second read may just not be the same because of a surprise or something.And I think the designations between bad/good/great/incredible are too personal only applicable to that reader. Who you are, at that moment, gets 'touched' by that book, that particular reading. I've had 'great' books that seemed like warmed over dog poo if I re-read it years later. It's just that 'je ne sais quoi' that squeezes the readers heart that one time (or maybe multiple times, it happens)
I almost never re-read a book, although I do think some books are better when you re-read it. And some books indeed fall flat when you re-read them.
For me, it has to all "click". A book from good to great, it could be the cliffhanger, the way a character or story develops or simply the dialogue.From great to incredible it has to touch my soul even if I don't agree with the way the story ended. It is one of those things that stays with you. If I think about it and it applies to my day to day life or if it changes the way I see something or even draws my attention to something I hadn't thought of or realized before to me that is incredible. The power of words spoken or written, some works just speak life...others death.
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Lolita, Alana, good points. Feeling has a lot to do with it for sure, and feelings are personal and may not have any common reason behind them. Could be based on personal experience, or who you are at that moment as Alana put it. Gabriela, I agree. Books that give me insight into the human condition or some aspect of the world that interests me catch my attention as well.
David, what about The Book Thief held you captive the whole time? I'll have to check that one out.
For me, a good book has a consistent world, good plot and interesting characters, no clear flaws or errors in style or story. A great book has all that and has an added emotional or intellectual component that gets me more invested in the outcome. An incredible book does that, but also surprises me tremendously in some way. The surprise can come in any form - a character, the plot, an insight, the writing style. But for me, that surprise element on top of all the other execution is the thing that pushes it up.
The characters are important to me. If I can't relate to them or believe them, then I just don't care even if the plot is amazing
As a writer I've thought about that a lot and I think it differs depending on who's book you are reading. For example, I think Stephen King's books are incredible but I think they're that way because of the mood and atmosphere he inspires from his style of writing. I get sucked in because if that. I also love Jim Butcher's books but for a different reason. He has very entertaining characters and very complex, twisty plots that make me want to read his books nonstop. For Terry Brooks, it's about the worlds he creates and the ever present good vs evil themes. No two authors are the same so there's no set guide of what makes a good book incredible.
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Hmm The Book Thief...for me it was a number of things. 1) Unique narrator- it's narrated by Death, so you get a unique perspective on things.
2) Setting- Set in Nazi Germany, enough said.
3) POV- while Death is the narrator, the events unfold through the eyes of a little non-Jewish girl. This is extremely effective because you get the purity of a child's viewpoint, the normality of a kid just growing up and trying to have fun (which is obviously very difficult under the circumstances), and her being non-Jewish gives a very different perspective to the many books written in the opposite perspective.
4) Characters!! I probably should have made this my number 1 point as they are what made the book unforgettable for me. You fall in love with each and every one of them throughout the book, with all their faults, at different rates. You've got the immediately likeable adopted father. The immediately hateable adopted father (who ended up being my favorite character in the end), the MC who has all the personality and comedy that you could possibly ask for, and her best friend, who in many ways is the male version of her.
In conclusion, it's a book that made me laugh (A LOT), cry (A fair bit), and understand a little better what it was like to live in a time and a world apart from my own.
@DavidYou probably know how much I love the Book Thief by now lol. One of the most beautiful prose ever. Inspires my writing.
Another tearjerker I just finished reading is "A Fault In Our Stars." Not quite at the Book Thief's level of brilliance but not a bad read nonetheless =)
As for books that go from good to incredible, I love reading works that are unique, well thought out, and something I've never seen before. Game of Thrones (not YA) was like a kick in the gut when I first read it. It was Fantasy with a realistic spin to it and it was brutal. I loved it!
Life of Pi was another one, the end was such a smack in the face that I was left stunned. Beautiful book!
And of course, it has to be well written.
Hard to answer, because it's a personal thing. A good book does everything it needs to do in its genre, or across its genres: basically it has to keep me engaged enough to make me want to finish. For me to call it great, it needs to surprise me, challenge me and stay lodged in my brain for some time. It's alchemy. It has to move me deeply, no matter what genre it's in, for me to call it great. But "great" for me is personal, again. Multi-layered books do this; I don't know how they do it until I re-read them.
L.W. wrote: "@DavidYou probably know how much I love the Book Thief by now lol. One of the most beautiful prose ever. Inspires my writing.
Another tearjerker I just finished reading is "A Fault In Our Stars..."
TFINS is one of those layered stories that grabbed me, too. Funny, a wellspring of tragedy, AND uplifting.
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All of these answers have such great insight for me as a writer! Thank you!!
I think a book that is "good" is simply interesting. It has a good plot and it keeps me reading it. A book becomes "great" when the writing is also top-notch. For me, every book I have rated 5 stars were the books that had purpose. The author developed the characters into people I love or hate and the plot into something I want to be in. I will use The Dwellers series as an example since I assume we all know that one ;)
The first book I gave 4 stars, while the second one I gave 5 (I have yet to read the third). The main reason was I felt a connection to the second book that I didn't in the first. Though I think the first was still a well written book, the second allowed me to connect more to the characters. In fact one my favorite parts of the second book is when Adele and Tawni are reminiscing on their memories of Cole. Being a favorite character of mine, I appreciated the moment to reflect and grieve for his death. It was that small touch that allowed me to really connect to the second book and resulted in me giving it a 5 star rating.
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And I agree with your comments. You have to connect with the book for it to be great for you. For me a good example is The Scorpio Races. While not a 5 star read for a lot of people, for some reason that I can't explain, I connected with the characters so much!! The ending made me cry.
Great ? to discuss.For me a:
- Good book: I enjoyed it, the characters and the plot. The writing was good and I wanted to finish it and was glad that I did, but there was....something missing. I either didn't connect with the characters as much as I would have liked to or I thought the story should have gone a different way (even if I didn't dislike it). (Personal examples: too many to list)
- Great book: Couldn't put it down. The writing was awesome and the characters were very real to me. The pacing was perfect and the story developed naturally. In the end, I felt uplifted and very glad for the experience, but it was more for entertainment than an actual life changing experience. I would probably read it again, but I don't HAVE too. (Personal examples:
- Incredible book: Same as great, but it changed me...left me a different person by something I learned, felt, experienced during or after reading it. Whether connecting with a character or characters, or something about the story...it moved me. I WANT to read it again! (Personal examples:
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I think that this is definitely subjective. Of course, reading always is.A good book is something that I would recommend to someone else. I would reread it if the opportunity came about, but don't need to. It was well written and engaged me on some level.
A great book is one that I tell my sister to go out and buy. I couldn't put it down and loved the characters (or hated, depending on the case). I was engaged throughout the novel/novella/story.
An incredible book is one that I would gladly experience amnesia daily (or after the book's completion) in order to reexperience it again for the first time every day. It was not only a gripping story that I couldn't put down, but also engaged me emotionally.
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David wrote: "LOL I love the way you described this for you Jonel, especially the part about your sister!"Well, I can't tell her to go and buy a bad book. I'd hear about it for quite a while afterwards.....
And thanks.
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I am a sucker for a good romance... what makes a great book incredible is when the heroine realizes that the funny, sarcastic best friend that has always been there for her is the one she loves.. (I know I'm such a sap!:))
I kind of hate it when the best friend gets rejected for the "bad boy"!!
but yeah, a great romance + good book = thank you God for putting this book in my hands!!!!
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David wrote: "Adele just read The Giver :) She loved it!"I knew you "married up";-)
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I knew you "married up";-)"
Is there any other way to marry? Haha :)
Epicness turns a book from good to great, at least for me. When I read a single book that wasn't designed to be an epic series of books, but all the same I feel like I have been taken from the beginning to the end of a long adventure, and lived, loved, and cried with the characters like they were close friends. When chapter one feels like I read it years ago, even though it was only maybe a few days ago.Arthur Golden's "Memoirs of a Geisha" is a definite example. I read it when it was first published, and when I finished I was so moved I wanted to write him a letter of appreciation.
I think for me an amazing book has to be an original story. All the other writers that jump on the wagon when there's a best seller...
Couple things that make a book stand alone for me would be: Originality: taking an old idea to new heights with your own spin, or coming out of no where with an amazing tale all of your own.
Description:being able to paint a picture with words without 4 pages of reading the same thing. This really kills it for me. The story is just moving along then the author gets overly descriptive where I can jump a couple pages and I am still reading the same scenario.
Makes you think: I have read several books that just make you think. The Hunger Games was a big one for me. I mean really!! Actions speak louder than words.
Loved the way Katniss stirred action from others with just doing the right thing..
That's all I have for a Monday! LOL Have a great week everybody..
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For me a good book is one that entertains, but may be forgettable. A great book, on the other hand, leaves a lasting impression and has you begging for a sequel. An incredible book, now that's a rare find. An incredible book evokes strong emotions-humor, angst, fear, confusion, despair-in the reader. Ive been known to go into the ugly cry, stand up and cheer, hide my face in shame all because of a worthy character and story. If its truly incredible, the reader is so deeply engrossed in the emotions and action of the story, the reader is no longer aware of anything else. The number one ingredient, well-developed characters and relationships. So often I read a great book with an original plot and yet by the end of the story, I really have no clue who the characters truly are. An incredible story has characters I love so much that I feel depressed when the story is over because I no longer have them in my literary world.
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Mm so true, well said.
Cheer, I agree completely! A great book is hard to find and an incredible one even more so. Those are the books that remain in your psyche, in your emotional makeup long after you have finished reading it. The story can really be anything but the characters are the key. So the story has to be one that brings out all the aspects of who the characters are, how they feel, how they love, fear, respond in crisis. Yes, I am a post apocalyptic reader because I think it brings out the best and worst of all who live in it. There are many books out there but only a few really really good ones and fewer great and incredible ones. The quintessential post apocalyptic book for me is The Stand. It has never been done better and it stays in my being from the first day I read it when it first came out in 1978 and I bought the extended addition in 1990 too. Swan Song, a Robert McCammon book is of the same genre and just as good. It was recently offered for $1.99 so now I have both the print book and the Kindle book of Swan Song. OK, totally off message now, but those are examples of great books. Maybe even incredible. I am also a fan of Oliver Twist which is now offered on Amazon Kindle Serials and it is being offered as a serial as it originally was by Charles Dickens. But on Amazon you buy a serial and pay one price, the serials are sent to your Kindle each week.
Olivia wrote: "Couple things that make a book stand alone for me would be: Originality: taking an old idea to new heights with your own spin, or coming out of no where with an amazing tale all of your own.
Des..."
I fully agree with your point on descriptions. An author that can manage to show you exactly what they were thinking without bogging you down with pages upon pages of narrative downtime is definitely essential in a great and in an incredible book.
a good book will become incredible when you start LIVING it instead of reading it. ;) Simple and wonderful.
I think that it is a mix of the story, the characters, and the writing. If you write the story well and it is unique and I believe in the characters -- Well then I am attached. --- I have a thing about detail when it comes to writing. I want some of it, but if you give me tooooo much then I feel like I am being TOLD the story rather then LIVING the story. BTW so far David, I find you grasp this concept! I am almost done with Star Dwellers and read moon dwellers before, in both books --- even though you are essentially creating a new world, you found a way to explain it well but without TELLing me about it too much, I SEE it through the characters eyes.
Jonel wrote: "Olivia wrote: "Couple things that make a book stand alone for me would be: Originality: taking an old idea to new heights with your own spin, or coming out of no where with an amazing tale all of..."
Agree. Don't bog me down with description and detail when you can show me, let me live it with you.
For me a great book would have to have a good plot and characters and some meaning to it at least. If the story is captivating and original that is a great storyWhat makes a book incredible is the way author uses the words. Only if I feel connection to the characters, or if the book made me cry. I only cry during a sad scene if I really love the character or if the author's writing is that awesome :)
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The #1 thing for me is probably the absorption level. I think Kayla said it first, its like you forget who you are and what you are doing you are so into the story! For me, it was Harry Potter, especially the last 4 books. I would get them on release day at midnight, party at the release party, go home to bed, wake up, and crack open the book and read straight through without eating or anything! My family knew not to bother me unless there was a fire! The Hunger Games and Twilight had me too, although not as much. I wonder if I'll ever find another Harry Potter read...not likely!
#2 thing for me is the characters. This is why I love Cassandra Clare and Nancy Holder. They write such amazing characters, they feel like living people to me!
#3 Would be any cool things in the story--plot twists are big for me, and if I don't see it coming its even better! I love being surprised, and its really hard to surprise me in books! Originality would be another thing I love.
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The #1 thing for me is probably the absorption level. I think Kayla said it first, its like you forget who you are and what you are doin..."
Ohmygosh, Jenny, you really are my book twin! HP, HG and Twilight were all read in a weekend reading spree! Yes, all 7 HP books. I may have had Friday off. I read 1- 3 and at 8 40 p.m. on a Friday night, I zoomed to the nearest book store and bought 4-7. I don't know if I slept or ate that weekend! If I'm sucked into a good book, I can't stop!
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I have just found Elle Casey and am absorbed in her books now. Especially Apocalypsis
, now starting
and then
. She also wrote
and
which I have read last week and the third one is not out yet. She writes about young people, teenagers in apocalyptic situations and dystopian civilizations. There is the whole Between the Realm series also, which I have yet to begin.
is the first one in this series. I think it is about fairies? Not sure, haven't read it. But I will read everything she writes.
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, now starting and then ..."Just downloaded the sample of Apocalypsis and ended up buying. Thanks for the recommend, Dnicole. Looks good!
I read the first book of Apocalypsis and have the second book but haven't had a chance to read it yet. I thought it was pretty good. Not sure if it was my favorite ever but it's definitely worth a read. :)
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After you're done with the first one, we could always buddy read the second too. ;)
For me a book is great when I really love it and like/love the characters and everything about it. It is incredible when I feel everything they feel. When a book makes me feel things, wether it's crying, laughing of falling in love or something else, that is what makes a book incredible to me.
David Estes Fans and YA Book Lovers Unite!
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Then sometimes you finish a book and you think, "Wow! That was awesome!" And you might tweet about it or post on GR or FB about. Then that's it.
Then there are those other books. The ones where after you read them and absorb the impact you're immediately thinking about the names of the people you must contact. I'm talking about the books that you want other people to discover through you -- as though you will have rightly earned credit for changing their lives by telling them about this book.
Those are the incredible books. The ones you think about for weeks, months, years even. That you know you will read again and again.
I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but for some books I feel like: "If I tell you about this book, then you owe me. It's that serious."
So what's the difference in those books?
What makes a "Good Book" into a "Great Book"?
What makes a "Great Book" into an "Incredible Book"?