TH: So, Dwarves, What's Wrong With Them?

[Scott]

"The "consistent" writings are; The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-earth. In my view The Appendices need to be the final word on the cultures, because bringing "The History of Middle Earth into the discussion just confuses things."

I tend to agree; the appendices are what I try to use whenever there is a question of legitimacy or confusion within the works themselves.

[Michael]

Daran wrote: "It simplifies greatly if you don't take early drafts into account. Tolkien changed every culture in Middle earth several times, sometimes they contradict each other. All those previous incarnatio..."

In general I'd agree; he certainly changed the details of the languages continuously. However, on this issue (the place of the Dwarvish language in Dwarvish culture), I see no evidence that he changed his mind.

Particularly, App. F says that Dwarvish is "a tongue of lore rather than a cradle-speech". That is, baby dwarves do not learn Dwarvish while bouncing on their mothers' knees, they must learn it later, and probably only well enough to read or listen to old tales or whatever other ancient lore dwarves have, not well enough to carry on a conversation. App. F also says that Dwarvish has "changed little [over] the years", which means it is not a living language.

The place of the Dwarvish language in Dwarish culture is almost exactly the same as the place of Biblical Hebrew in Jewish culture, at least outside Israel. American Jews, for instance, speak English as their native tongue, and some of them go to Hebrew school to learn Hebrew (but I would wager that few become fluent in it).

This idea is supported by the apparent similarity of Dwarvish to the Semitic languages.

[Daran]

You're probably right.

Still, The History of Middle Earth should not be the place someone goes for answers to Tolkien's world. Once you start down that road, discussions become legalistic and weird.Some of that is from my personal experience with some of the Tolkien societies.

These threads have been some of the most pleasant discussions I've ever had about Tolkien's work, but I'm always nervous discussing Tolkien, or Star trek, or Star Wars in a public forum; because there's always the danger of someone jumping from the bushes, yelling like Ben Gun,'look what I know!'

I'm very glad that has not been the case here. And if I've been guilty of that at any time, I pray forgiveness.

[Firstname]

David wrote: "One possible explanation for the dwarves' behavior is that they're "gun-shy". They're the last survivors of their people, who got smacked around by a single dragon. They know the dwarven histories,..."

I am so amused by this.

[Firstname]

Nekroskop wrote: "I like that this is actually one of the few reads where dwarves are more than short, beer drinking, axe swinging scotsmen. "

Errr, what British accent are so many of them using then? Sounded more Scots-brogueish than Irish to me.

[Scott]

I think it's unfortunate that the Hobbit films seem to be following the DnD tropes for Dwarves rather than Tolkien's vision.