Do you ever want to throw a book?

[Traci]

I can overlook almost anything. But I cannot stand repetition. It gives me a headache. I had to give up on the Dresden books. I liked them. They're good. But the repetition got to me. Bad
The other thing I hate is when an author forgets what they wrote and changes something. Bad editing I guess. It can laugh off small things. But bigger details drive me crazy. George RR Martin. And no. I don't buy that his mistakes are on purpose. ;)

[Brenda]

Repetition falls into two groupings. The kind where the character, due to her innate flaws, once again makes the same mistake is the stuff of tragedy.
The kind where the author is careless, and forgets that he had already sent Conan to conquer Cimmeria once already five volumes ago, this is bad, I agree. It used to be the job of the editor to catch this kind of thing. Nowadays writers have to keep their eye closely on the ball. I have friends who keep three-ring binders, with all the characters alphabetized inside. Any time something happens to Conan, it gets noted in his tab in the binder. This allows you to go back and check -- is it OK for him to take up rock climbing in vol. 20? oh no, I had him lose his left leg at the knee in the big battle in vol. 11, I guess not!

[carol.]

Problem because those of us who aren't knowledgeable about horses or history have no idea how far a horse can really travel and what rest periods are required. It seems like I'm always reading about someone riding all day horseback. The people, of course, end up saddle-sore because they aren't used to it, but supposedly the horses always are (Robin McKinley, The Blue Sword comes to mind).

[Mona]

Carol wrote: "Problem because those of us who aren't knowledgeable about horses or history have no idea how far a horse can really travel and what rest periods are required. It seems like I'm always reading abou..."

I read somewhere about a hero galloping galloping galloping across the countryside. Getting off the horse and it's not even breathing hard. Not only is this poor research, it's also a lost opportunity for some spectacular observations...the labored sound of a stressed horse, the feel of their stride faltering under you, and so on.

[Sharon]

Carol wrote: "It seems like I'm always reading about someone riding all day horseback. The people, of course, end up saddle-sore because they aren't used to it, but supposedly the horses always are (Robin McKinley, The Blue Sword comes to mind). "

Horses that are in conditioned, being worked hard, can be ridden day after day for a number of days. I've ridden horses all day 3 to 5 days a week, probably 15 to 20 miles a day. The U.S. Cavalry I think figured 20 to 25 miles a day was average on a long trek.

And again, a conditioned horse can be ridden over a long distance in a short time, as with the 100-mile endurance races in which the times range from 12 to 20 hours for the 100 miles. However, horses can do this once, but not day after day.

Horses that are out in a pasture, however, not ridden/worked daily, are not able to do this. Working ranch horses are usually up to this kind of work ... I suspect the 'war horses' and cavalry horses in most of the fantasy books would be ridden consistently so they would be in condition as well.

[JohnViril]

One recent book I wanted to throw across the room was an free indie novel I read from Amazon "The Sable City". The book is an ok read, but the problem is the author never tells you WHY the protagonists' trading house is in danger and HOW the quest the main characters embark upon intends to save it.

This went on for more than half the book. Drove me nuts.

[Brenda]

This is the sort of thing that a beta reader might save you from. A good beta reader should (or should be instructed to) watch out for major lapses of logic, places where explanation is called for, and in general all the things that the author herself cannot see because she is too close to the work.

[Trike]

Sharon wrote: "Horses that are in conditioned, being worked hard, can be ridden day after day for a number of days. I've ridden horses all day 3 to 5 days a week, probably 15 to 20 miles a day. The U.S. Cavalry I think figured 20 to 25 miles a day was average on a long trek."

Assuming the same relative conditioning between the two, a horse will run faster than a man, but a man will run farther than a horse.

There are some mutant humans, real people like ultrarunner Dean Karnazes, who can theoretically run forever because his body doesn't sustain damage the way a normal person's does. Or the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico, who will run 150 miles in a day for fun. (Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen is an awesome book.)

One could reasonably postulate that a mutant horse (or magic-imbued one) could perform similar feats of endurance, but you'd have to say that in the story.

[Sysilouhi]

Oooh, I need to comment to the horse discussion too :P Fist of all horse never ever decide to stop in the middle of the road and simply refuse to go in books. I mean of course most of their horses are probably very well trained but this seems to be a charasteristic of every horse you can find from some random field. To those who don't know it really really isn't; I have owned five horses in my life and even the most reliable one of them has several times stood in a middle of a field or a road jumping around and refusing to go forward. (it's really not too nice when you don't have a saddle, there is a car driving past you and the horse suddenly decides to turn back towards home...)

Krhm, back to the topic other thing that pisses me of are horse performing moves like "jumping/prancing backwards" etc. which as every rider ought to know does NOT happen. Horses just can't jump backwards, end of the story.

[Mona]

SSirppi wrote: "Oooh, I need to comment to the horse discussion too :P Fist of all horse never ever decide to stop in the middle of the road and simply refuse to go in books. I mean of course most of their horses ..."

A horse can jump sideways, or can throw in an energetic balk which seems like its going backwards, especially when you go sailing over their head. Just finished up Doranna Durgin's "Touched By Magic." She knows horses, which means she can make their foibles and talents a part of the story.

[Sharon]

SSirppi wrote: "horse performing moves like "jumping/prancing backwards" etc. which as every rider ought to know does NOT happen. Horses just can't jump backwards, end of the story. "

It's true they don't 'jump' backwards, as in jump over something behind them, but they can back up at several different gaits and speeds and a trot in place/slightly backward could be described as prancing backwards.

My riding instructor/trainer in Spain had an Andalusian stallion that could *work* a square at both trot and canter while always facing the audience. Forward ... side pass right ... back ... sidepass left ... stop at the starting corner. It was pretty amazing to watch.

[Mona]

Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "horse performing moves like "jumping/prancing backwards" etc. which as every rider ought to know does NOT happen. Horses just can't jump backwards, end of the story. "

It's true th..."

Sharon, working with that trainer must have been an amazing experience

[Sharon]

Mona wrote: "working with that trainer must have been an amazing experience"

My only regret now is that I wasn't at least 10 years older and not so convinced that I knew how to ride just because I'd grown up on a cattle ranch and had ridden working ranch horses since I was 5 years old. It took me a year to realize how little I really did know and to actually learn something.

The instructor had been trained at the Cadre Noir in France and if I'd been a little more knowledgeable at the time, I could have absorbed a lot more.

[Natalia]

Traci wrote: "I can overlook almost anything. But I cannot stand repetition. It gives me a headache. I had to give up on the Dresden books. I liked them. They're good. But the repetition got to me. Bad
The other..."

A Dance With Dragons > enough said! I hated this book! Repetition, bad editing, blah-blah-blah - guilty of all charges. I hated it so much that sadly enough, it made me look back and start hating the whole series.... :(

[Sysilouhi]

Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "horse performing moves like "jumping/prancing backwards" etc. which as every rider ought to know does NOT happen. Horses just can't jump backwards, end of the story. "

It's true th..."

You are lucky :) However, I take it you mean piaffe by that? Whereas I pretty much agree with everything you said I really would not call it prancing backwards even if the horse would be backing slightly while performing it (which in a dressage move probably would not be wished anyway I guess, I don't pretend to know anything about GP dressage, my coaches are eventers and I do showjumping). Which I have come across in at least on book was pretty much passage backwards and that is not possible for a horse to perform. Also horses naturally want to face the direction they are going so they prefer doing sharp turns and then fleeing to the other direction.

I think that as a teens or young adults we all tend to overestimate our own skills. I certainly did (Well, I'm still only eighteen but sometimes you are brought low faster..) but nowadays I know understand I'm not a pro or special in any way :P

[Sharon]

SSirppi wrote: "Which I have come across in at least on book was pretty much passage backwards and that is not possible for a horse to perform."

Backward movement is not wanted in dressage competition, but trotting/passaging backwards IS possible. The Andalusian stallion that belonged to my instructor in Spain would, in fact, walk, trot and canter backwards ... and it would be possible for a horse to passage backwards if they were trained to do so, just as they are trained to go forward in a passage.

[Mona]

SSirppi wrote: "Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "horse performing moves like "jumping/prancing backwards" etc. which as every rider ought to know does NOT happen. Horses just can't jump backwards, end of the story. ..."

As I recall someone did train a horse to canter backwards. Obviously not a natural movement and took a lot of work on the trainer's part

[Sharon]

You're correct ... it's not a natural movement though I suspect under certain conditions you might see it 'in the wild' so to speak ... much like some of the haute ecole' movements in the airs above the ground that the Lippizans perform ... those are all trained, but you will see them with horses in the wild or playing.

[Sysilouhi]

Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "Which I have come across in at least on book was pretty much passage backwards and that is not possible for a horse to perform."

Backward movement is not wanted in dressage competi..."

I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards. So unless youtube it didn't (and cannot) happen, lol ;) I mean even the canter is kind of well... Umm, "epämääräistä", can't really think of a good English term here, vague maybe? Because when you think of passage you need to note the power comes from the hind legs right? When moving backwards front legs would need to supply more power which they really don't have. I mean of course hind legs would still be the main energy source but they shouldn't be able to give the stride enough length which would pretty much transfer the move into a piaffe moving slightly backwards.

[Jenelle]

The only book I've ever thrown was because Harry Potter (the first one). My reason, however, was not what you might think.

I was upset that I'd liked it so much.

I resisted reading it for the most ridiculous of reasons: it was *too* popular. I was so certain it would be awful or poorly written or incapable of living up to the hype... but when I blitzed through it and got to the last page, I remember saying, "Dang it. That was really good." and chucking it across the room.


As an author of fantasy I'll have to remember all the horse pet-peeves... I've spent a lot of time around horses (was pretty horse-crazy in my jr. high-high school years, and one day I hope to own a few) and I do try to do a lot of research before writing something ridiculous (like having a group of cavalry cover 400 miles in 4 days or making a horse jump backwards), but it's good to know that errors regarding horses are book-throwing-worthy. :)

[A.]

Jenelle wrote: "The only book I've ever thrown was because Harry Potter (the first one). My reason, however, was not what you might think.

I was upset that I'd liked it so much.

I resisted reading it for the mos..."

That's hilarious. I think I did the same thing.

But I actually did throw the second Hunger Games book out of distaste. Though, I don't make a habit of throwing books, good or bad. It tends to damage things...

[Sharon]

I have to admit having a Kindle has definitely curtailed my penchant for throwing books!

Which may actually be a *good* thing ...

[Sharon]

SSirppi wrote: "I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards"

The canter backwards does look awkward ... backward at a walk and trot are square and don't look that awkward but the canter certainly does.

And I have to admit that after nearly 40 years I'm not sure if the Andalusian stallion did a passage backwards for sure or not. I do have Super8 movie film of him (which tells you how long ago that was) but no projector so I'm just not positive.

[Sysilouhi]

Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards"

The canter backwards does look awkward ... backward..."

Well, if I say I have no idea what Super8 movie film is probably reveals how young I am :D But let's just say that it's at least very hard if not impossible and requires a lot of training so probably not a thing that a random horse from medieval fantasy setting would be ready to perform accidnetally. ;)

[Mona]

SSirppi wrote: "Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards"

The canter backwards does look awkwa..."

Depending on what you're attempting to show in your book. If it's a reaction to a threat, a horse can do any number of fantastical maneuvers. Then you have the horse that decides they don't want to be ridden that day, thanks anyway. Nothing can buck quite like a horse that can clear a six foot fence

[Sysilouhi]

Mona wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards"

The canter backwards..."

All true, but usually when reacting to threat horse usually performs a sharp turn and runs, which is the fastest and therefore also the most logical reaction to threat. When not wanting to work backing is rather normal reaction but not with extra work, after all that is what the horse is trying to avoid, so I don't buy a horse performing backwards passage as a protest. Rearing sure, bucking sure (How much is six foot? Around 180cm?) but in both jumping and bucking the power comes from the hind legs.

But anyway in the case I was talking about an inexperineced rider on a warhorse(?) and accidentally getting the horse prance backwards across the whole yard. Just.. Not buying it.

[Eli]

It hasn't happened that much, but it's usually because something really, really bad happens and it's just like, NO.
Or it's because of an annoying character/situation type of thing, where it gets so ridiculous I can't stand it anymore.

[Mona]

SSirppi wrote: "Mona wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "Sharon wrote: "SSirppi wrote: "I have actually seen a youtube video of a horse cantering backwards but I really can't buy a horse doing real passage backwards"

The can..."

Not without falling off! I once rode a wonderful reining horse, and accidentally asked for a sharp turn. Thank heaven for saddle horns!

[Jute]

I mostly get frustrated at really stupid characters. By that I mean characters that continually act stupid. I recently read a book that had me really wanting to pitch it but it was for a book club and I've really tried to finish everything I read for discussion purposes.

But some books just make me want to bang my head against a wall rather than finish them. :)

[Brenda]

I don't mind if the characters are stupid, as long as they LEARN from their mistakes.

[Kevin]

I forgot that when I first read Little, Big by John Crowley I wanted to throw the book because the way it was written.

[Sharon]

Brenda wrote: "I don't mind if the characters are stupid, as long as they LEARN from their mistakes."

It's the stupid ones that have what I call the "Bluebeard's Wife syndrome" that annoy me the most ... you know, B movie dumb blonde that ALWAYS opens the door into the cellar or the haunted house.

[Peggy]

Jute wrote: "I mostly get frustrated at really stupid characters. By that I mean characters that continually act stupid."

Hope you didn't pay good money to see Prometheus this past summer. :-)

[[deleted user]]

I know what you mean about Prometheus!!

[Brenda]

Aa good example of stupid-but-gets-smarter is Bilbo Baggins. A timid drone of a hobbit at the beginning of THE HOBBIT, under stress he becomes a competent adventurer.

[Phil]

Brenda wrote: "Aa good example of stupid-but-gets-smarter is Bilbo Baggins. A timid drone of a hobbit at the beginning of THE HOBBIT, under stress he becomes a competent adventurer."

I am so looking forward to Martin Freeman showing us this process ;-)

[Michelle]

I have wanted to several times, like when the book is so great right up until the end, but the resolution is just so lame it wrecks the whole story.

[Mona]

Sharon wrote: "Brenda wrote: "I don't mind if the characters are stupid, as long as they LEARN from their mistakes."

It's the stupid ones that have what I call the "Bluebeard's Wife syndrome" that annoy me the m..."

And aren't they always in revealing gowns or torn clothing?