Connecting Readers and Writers discussion
Reviewers
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Why is it so hard to get reviewed?
Well, I'm not doing many reviews for GR authors anymore after I reviewed a BOM from an author who exhorted every participant to review and then wasn't able to stomach the one result which was honest and no accommodation line.Her "fangrrrrls" descended on my currently one available story and extensively one-starred it (without even reading it in the first place) in retaliation of a 2* (it is okay but needs much work) review while giving her 5* for hers.
You won't catch ME giving anyone reviews again any time soon, nor will I now buy and read BOMs anymore. I mean I'd have to be nuts to again pay quite a few bucks to read a book of high-school level prose and then get kicked around the block when I dare state the lack of quality. As I have quite a few writer acquaintances, who observed and saw what was done to me over a critical review, you won't catch many of them doing this either anymore now.
Keep swinging away dude. Most book readers have long lists of books. Search them outside of here, contribute and send. I don't bother asking for reviews, I did in the beginning and was lucky because of my rude tweets. But there are too many 'Wanna be' celebrity web folk,so you never know what you get. I had one dude sledge me, even though he, as he stated, hadn't read my book. He just took exception to me/it. But you know what, who fucking cares - it's just a book.Just keep talking to reviewers.
Steelwhisper wrote: "Well, I'm not doing many reviews for GR authors anymore after I reviewed a BOM from an author who exhorted every participant to review and then wasn't able to stomach the one result which was hones..."I hate folks like that as well. If you get a bad review, that's the reviewer's taste, as far as I'm concerned. As it stands right now I'll take *any* review, good or bad, so long as the reviewer's at least reading the book.
I also hate retaliatory rating, as well. If I'm going to rate something badly, it's going to be an honest rating. Same with my readers, what few there are ... they're all honest folks, for the most part.
Don, you might consider approaching book review bloggers in your genre to see if they have an interest in and scheduling availability to read and review your book. Granted, it may take several months, however, it can be worth it in the long run, and may even gain some exposure for your work. There are several blogger groups within Goodreads that you can research (Blogger Lift, Bloggers Unite, Books, Blogs, Authors and more). Best of luck!
Steelwhisper wrote: "Well, I'm not doing many reviews for GR authors anymore after I reviewed a BOM from an author who exhorted every participant to review and then wasn't able to stomach the one result which was hones..."I'm sorry, I should probably know this ... but what is a BOM?
Tony wrote: "Steelwhisper wrote: "Well, I'm not doing many reviews for GR authors anymore after I reviewed a BOM from an author who exhorted every participant to review and then wasn't able to stomach the one r..."Book-of-the-month.
Don wrote: "Tony wrote: "Steelwhisper wrote: "Well, I'm not doing many reviews for GR authors anymore after I reviewed a BOM from an author who exhorted every participant to review and then wasn't able to stom..."Ah. Obvious really, if you think about it. I told you I should have known it.
Tony wrote: "I'm sorry, I should probably know this ... but what is a BOM? ..."That's one method of getting reviews. The book is chosen by a GR group as a "Book Of the Month" read, which means that many if not the majority of all people in that group will buy and read that book. Usually a discount is given on the book (from 10% to 100% depending on author) for group members. Then the book gets discussed among members after the reading (or during) with the author participating or not--depending on the group. End result is that the readers then review or rate the book or do both.
I never know (unless readers PM me later, which some do) if the folks who leave star ratings without a written review have read the book or not. I like to know what they loved or hated. That helps me learn and grow as a writer. I don't know what the magic formula is to get more reviews or garner interest. We just have to want it bad enough to keep plowing ahead, I guess. :)
Thanks for the reply, Steelwhisper. I was wondering about putting myself up for review here or elsewhere but I can see it only works if the reviewer(s) doesn't have any of their own works published. Otherwise, I've read, it can easily get into a situation where both parties are giving each other bad reviews, which can lead to loss of sales.I'll stay away from all that for now and just wait for any unsolicited reviews that might turn up, good or bad.
Julie wrote: "I never know (unless readers PM me later, which some do) if the folks who leave star ratings without a written review have read the book or not. I like to know what they loved or hated. That helps ..."Well, in the case of the "1* no text" retaliation reviews it was easy to know. That story is available only either in a certain group (of which these people were no members) or as a download on my website (there were no downloads effected during that time phase).
;)
Don, keep on asking. I'm an avid reviewer here on GR and also on Amazon and my own blog, but my TBR list is well over 1600 books.Having said that, my lists of indie authors who I've promised reviews is sitting at around 50 at the moment.
We are out there Don, you may just have to be patient :D
Don,As others have pointed out, and you yourself have noticed, reviewers are simply slammed with requests for reviews. It's a fact of life, and we all have to deal with it, because there are way more of us writers than there are reviewers, but have you considered offering to do interviews or guest posts?
I know, I know, we've been conditioned to see that review (preferably with as many stars as possible) as the holy grail, but reviews take up time. Someone first has to read your book, then organize their thoughts and ultimately write the review. Rinse and repeat, dozens of times over. Even the fastest reader can only get to a few books a week.
Guest posts or interviews, on the other hand, are sometimes appealing because they give bloggers some of their time back. And while, it's not the ringing endorsement that a positive review might be, it's still an opportunity for you to connect with readers. Tell them what's unique about your story and/or characters, give them insight into the world you've created.
Not everyone will go for it, but it's something to offer.
Keep at it, Don. You have to be very patient and for all the emails I send out maybe only 25% will respond. I always check a blogger's review policy first and see if they are accepting. I emphasize with bloggers though, they must get dozens of emails a day and especially when most of them are students with other priorities first like exams. Still, I agree with other people here that while they can't review it is still worth asking for interview or guest post as they usually say yes to these fairly promptly.
Don, I do book reviews. You can check out ones that I've done already on my blog as well as what my review rules are. Here's the link. http://thefourhorsemenseries.blogspot...
I find I get better results if I go to their website and email them directly instead of going through the discussion thread. If they provide a website to check out or a direct email, try that route. You may get more replies that way.
Attracting a reviewer requires the same tools as attracting a reader. An intriguing title and professional looking cover gets the ball rolling. Next, nothing beats a great log line, a ONE SENTENCE description of the story. A brief plot summary in a style that reflects the writing is helpful to generate further interest. If the reader is still on board, the writer’s sales job is nearly done. Make sentence one on page one a great hook and next stop, ka-ching; check out.
What can screw up this simple plan?
Give less than maximum creative effort to the elements described above and it’s game over before it’s begun. Even worse, a typo or grammar error in the plot summary says amateur hour. With so many books to choose from, decisions are quick.
When pitching editors and agents, I’ve found that a great log line is by far the best tool to generate interest in my project. Log lines work on readers too.
Reviewers and readers collect to-read queues. A great pitch is the ticket to first place in line.
You can try joining a Goodreads group like Making Connections - http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/6... - They have an Author's Requesting Review program where people agree to review your book within a set time frame.
Mark wrote: "Attracting a reviewer requires the same tools as attracting a reader.
An intriguing title and professional looking cover gets the ball rolling. Next, nothing beats a great log line, a ONE SENTENC..."
Agreed! Indeed, poeple just want their books to be reviewed, sometimes they have a horrible cover, and there's little information available about what to expect... :(
An intriguing title and professional looking cover gets the ball rolling. Next, nothing beats a great log line, a ONE SENTENC..."
Agreed! Indeed, poeple just want their books to be reviewed, sometimes they have a horrible cover, and there's little information available about what to expect... :(
To all of you here, you can check out my book review blog here and read my review policy. Although I am an author myself I believe in supporting other authors as well. I do book reviews, book spotlights and author interviews. Please feel free to contact me if you are interested.http://4horsemenseriesbr.blogspot.com/
Denise wrote: "Jaye wrote: "Don, you might consider approaching book review bloggers in your genre to see if they have an interest in and scheduling availability to read and review your book. Granted, it may take..."I joined up with the "Making Connections" group, who did post my books. Comparatively speaking, they're running at approximately half a snail's pace compared to similar titles on the group. I also just attempted to look through the Book Blogger Directory, and there's two main problems ... well, three ... with the bloggers I've tried to look at:
1. They only want print copies. I can understand this, but I'm on a very strict budget with a limited stock, and I can't afford to blindly send out books on a wing and a prayer that they'll get reviewed.
2. They don't accept self-published work. Although I'm not listed as the publisher (it's through my imprint, Desert Coyote Productions), I still qualify under this category. At least one of the blogs claimed to support indie authors, but if you're truly serious about that you'll accept self-published work, in my opinion.
3. A couple of the links were to blogs that were repurposed. One wasn't even in English anymore and had exactly one post talking about ... making their first post to their brand-new blog.
I'm trying to get out there, it's not that I'm sitting on my hands waiting for the world to come to me. It just gets very disappointing, especially when I'm on a budget and don't have the kinds of resources others may have.
Two more book blogger problems: some blogs don't want to read anything unless *they ask for it,* which leaves guys like me out in the cold. Other blogs don't even list a review policy, so you can't contact them to even ask about a review.
Don, you could try the group on GR 'Shut Up and Read' http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/5...The thread you'd be after would be:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...
They offer Read it and Reap to their members. Authors sign up with the group, propose a certain number of electronic copies of their book for free and in return the members of the group read and review it within 2 weeks.
I personally have signed up for about 6 of them and found the whole process brilliant. They have a section for general discussion on the books and the authors usually hang about and interact with those who are currently reading their book. It's a win/win for everyone.
I know they have a bit of a backlog of authors putting their books forward, but you could still speak with them, try emailing or PMing Tt who is one of the mods.
All the best Don :)
EDIT: Just thought you might like to know that Shut up and read is almost 4000 members strong! :D
I have had very little trouble getting people to review my work--the reason: I don't waste their time with useless information. I don't go into who I am, or that I love to write, or that my novel is the first of its kind or new or unusual in some different way. Why? Because they've heard it before, don't care or haven't the time.
Now understand, I am not trying to be mean, egotistical or obnoxious. Crafting a sales pitch is hard work and it takes time and effort to make it work, but it can pay off if you're willing to give it a try.
So how do you get someone to read your book? Well first, try pitching your story like it was a movie. Capsulize the drama. See your book as a commercial and make it short and sweet. Sell it in a direct and exciting way.
You need to understand that you have a very short window to capture a reader's interest. If you can't sell someone with a sound bite in the first 3 to 4 sentences then why should they read on?
Next break your pitch into short 2 to 3 sentence (or less) paragraphs with plenty of space in between. DO NOT hit a reviewer with huge blocks of text. Sell your dream with concise phrasing that sizzles--build from one sentence to the next, paragraph to paragraph. Give the reader a real desire to read your book.
And Good Luck!
Don, I think part of the problem is the genre you are writing in.
I've had difficulty finding reviewers as well, but I know it's my genre. There are so many historical romance authors that are just starting out and are looking for reviews. The places I have contacted receive several hundred review requests monthly. It's tough, but I hope you get there soon!
On the up side, if a genre interests me, I will buy with or without reviews if the price, the blurb and the excerpt are right. I think reviews are somewhat overrated. I've bought quite a few books recently, regencies mainly, which were low-priced and interested me.
I do appreciate the advice that's been posted to this thread. I'm not entirely sure that it's the genre that's the problem, as on the other boards referenced on this page, several fantasy novels have been getting reviews with little to no trouble. Thus far I've only managed to find one reviewer via any of these avenues, so I don't think it's the genre that's the issue.
Possibly one of the problems is I don't have the time to spend on sites like Goodreads or others and just shamelessly plug my product. One, I personally hate that (it seems whorish, and I want the work to stand on its own, not on my ability to sell it). Two, I just don't have the time between a full-time job and family. I barely even manage to get to author shows, and when I do I can't even sell one bloody book. (I had to leave one show after only being there for 15 minutes so that I could pick my wife and new baby up from the hospital, and I haven't had a chance to do any signings since ... not that it matters because I don't sell at signings anyway.)
There's also the problem that I know that I have an audience who'll take in the book, and that it's the kind that shows up to things like DragonCon and AKon ... it's just a matter of getting to that audience. I can't promote on message boards (get banned for spamming), and forget about dealer rooms at those shows (I tried for AKon ... they have an EIGHT YEAR waiting list for their dealer's room, and then that's only if they have vendors cancel). My books don't do well at traditional book shows because the typical audience at traditional book shows skews about 30 years older than my target. :(
So yeah, this is turning into a sob story, and I don't think anyone wants to read that. Just know that I appreciate the advice given, some of which I've taken. I'm still trying to do everything according to what people are saying works, but for some reason it's just not working for me.
Don, do you have a Facebook page? Do you have a twitter account? You say you don't have time to attend the book signings, conventions and such, but what about the booming online community? It takes far less time to interact with people here than in person.
I follow a couple of independent authors on Goodread who've all done fantastically well by utilising the online aspect of growing their fanbase.
You could check out Lindsay Buroker's website http://www.lindsayburoker.com
She's probably the most forth coming author I've found with information about the writing process and her endevours into self publishing and promoting her books. I plan to emulate her success when my books are ready.
I also have been following Michael J. Sullivan on his progression from independent author to being signed by Orbit. Michael writes fantasy!
Another author who's done exceptionally well at building their fan base online is David Estes who has a loyal following here on GR, Facebook and Twitter.
Perhaps the time you spent at the book conventions could be better used to reach a more global oriented audience?!
Check out those authors and maybe you'll be able to utilise their techniques :)
I have both Facebook and Twitter accounts, and I'm trying to use them. Like I said, I'm not sitting in a vacuum doing nothing and thinking that people should find me. I'm doing what I'm told is how to connect with audiences ... I have a fan page, I have a Twitter feed, and what I have to show for it is approx. 230+ Twitter followers (half of which are spammer accounts) and all of 7 Facebook likes. I also have a Tumblr feed that only has three followers despite a standing offer of free e-books for people who interact with the page and Tweet messages found in the posts.
Here's the problem: I'm doing what all of these other authors are doing. I'm doing what every source says is *bound* to get you sales. Only there's no sales. I looked at the Lindsay Buroker article, and what I saw was:
1. Offer books for free
2. ??????
3. PROFIT!
I'm a bit of a pragmatist ... most of the people I know who go for freebies (like free e-books) aren't going to buy books from the authors whose freebies they like ... they're going to go get more freebies because they like FREE more than they like the authors.
I guess the point I'm starting to get to is that people who give advice to authors shouldn't say that their method WILL work for everybody. Right now, I'm proof positive that it doesn't.
I think Read it and Reap will be a good one for you Don :) there's a lot of readers who will devour your book and offer feedback.If you don't hear from Tt in the next couple of weeks you should email her or PM her to see where it's at :)
One thing I've found about Twitter (currently have over 3k followers) is that you have to invest a lot of time in it. People know when you're in it for what you can get, so you have to spend a lot of time just being you: having conversations, getting to know people, and generally not telling people you're an author. Eventually it comes up in conversation anyway and then you can go from there. I once had a random author follow me, and I looked at her profile and she seemed okay, so I followed back. The very first thing she said to me was to recommend me her book because she "thought I'd really like it." I didn't at first realise it was hers because her Twitter handle and name didn't quite match up. Needless to say, when I realised, I blocked her on the spot.All that said, I was laid up last year for months with a slipped disk, so I had a lot of time on my hands and, at the time, nothing to sell, so it was very easy just to be online for human contact rather than worrying about sales and reviews. I doubt any of this is any help to you at all. All I can really suggest is "write another book". Sooner or later, provided your stuff is suitable awesome, someone will discover you. But the other GR groups mentioned above are also worth checking out :)
Same problem here. I can't remember the author and I'll have to paraphrase but the quote (having to do with poetry but I think it apt)is:'Writing poetry is like dropping a feather into the Grand Canyon and waiting to hear the echo.'
I guess we all wait for the echo.
Don, have you tried submitting your books to publishers?And how about paying a professional cover designer?
As far as GoodReads goes: "I don't have the time to spend on sites like Goodreads or others and just shamelessly plug my product." Spend time on Goodreads, correct, shamelessly plug your product, wrong. Goodreads works but you have to invest time on it, getting to know people and interacting with them. Shamelessly plugging your work is going have people tuning you out very quickly on any platform. I think the best advice given on this thread so far goes to Mhairi - "write another book". With my second book out and doing significantly better than my first, I think the old saw that it takes three books before you get any traction as a writer is probably true. (And yes I am working towards that third book now.)
Rachel wrote: "As far as GoodReads goes: "I don't have the time to spend on sites like Goodreads or others and just shamelessly plug my product." Spend time on Goodreads, correct, shamelessly plug your product, w..."
very nice ideas, indeed. I do agree with them!
very nice ideas, indeed. I do agree with them!
I think the thing that makes readers want to review books the most is passion. If a book is okay or even good, I know I wouldn't really take the time to write a review.
But if it's AWESOME, then I want to tell people. Even if it's awesomely BAD.
So, to get more reviews? Write INCREDIBLE books, with GREAT covers and SHOW-STOPPING blurbs and the rest will take care of itself.
(This is the same problem all fandoms have- I'd rather have 100 super passionate fans instead of 10,000 lukewarm ones, but most promotion focuses on the latter.)
Anna wrote: "With me, I review things that are in my genera. I post the review on Goodreads because it seems to get a lot more attention. Even if someone doesn't click my name or read my short story, if they se..."
Very inspiring, Anna! :) That was indeed a good read :)
Very inspiring, Anna! :) That was indeed a good read :)
I haven't been chasing reviews, since I only started publishing in August (short story) and published my first novel in September. Then I spent three and a half months working on getting the half-done sequel finished and beta-read and edited in time for the Christmas rush, while also writing a short story to publish before the release of the second book in the Amsterdam Assassin Series.The result was that I only got one review on Amazon.com for the first book, Reprobate, but the review was a five-star and praised my book into the heavens, for which I'm very grateful.
At the moment I have some breathing room, researching and working out the third novel, so I'm looking into finding people to review my series, while doing some reading and reviewing myself.
The KillFiles (short stories) are free on iTunes, Kobo and Amazon USA, but not yet on Amazon UK. Meanwhile, I offer the paid novels for free in exchange for reviews, either on GoodReads and/or Amazon/iTunes/Kobo.
Getting noticed at all is difficult in a market where 400,000 books are published annually, but I'm pretty confident that cream will eventually rise to the top.
Happy Holidays, everyone.
I find it hard to review books of some genres. I have published a novel of historical fiction in November and most review exchanges involved science fiction, fantasy and erotica.However, if any of you is stuck for a reviewer I am happy to have a go!
Happy Holidays!
Christoph
(re message 44) Christoph, I'd love to have you review my recently published novel Wander Home! You (and anyone else!) can grab a free copy on Smashwords, at https://www.smashwords.com/books/view..., with coupon code HG55Q through 12-31-12. (If you don't get there in time, send me a message for a different coupon code.) Thanks!!
Christoph wrote: "I find it hard to review books of some genres. I have published a novel of historical fiction in November and most review exchanges involved science fiction, fantasy and erotica.
However, if any o..."
I did a Goodreads giveaway of 5 copies of my book, Nights at the Cuzco. I got a couple reviews out of it.
Don,I think everyone here has offered some pretty good advice. As you stated, there is no one thing that works for everyone. That's why persistence and participation pay off. It's not going to happen overnight. Heck, it may not happen over years, but eventually it will. You just need to find that one thing that works for you. Experiment. Just don't let yourself be defeated. There are several people in the same boat as you, the key is to keep on rowing.
What helped for me was enrolling in KDP Select in Amazon and hosting free days. Sure, you're not making any money, but you get a lot of exposure, and with exposure comes reviews.
I understand it's too late to change the quality of a book once you've written it, but writing a GREAT book is the best way to get reviews. I read so many ARR books that have the effect of water torture on me. It seems that very few self-published authors hire competent editors who can at least make the telling of the story palatable. Some authors have great ideas and story lines, but they muddle them with awkward sentences, repetition, errors, flat characters, and excessive wording. It's always hard as a reviewer to tell the truth because I hate giving a book 1 or 2 stars, but I also refuse to sugarcoat the truth.
Please, hire an editor! Invest in your craft. Optimize the chance that people will actually LIKE your book. I may be biased because I AM a freelance editor, but that doesn't change my opinion as a reader. I want to read and review well-edited and well-written books. Period.
I find these days you need to market yourself. I blog three times a week and tweet all of my posts three times a weeks, this bings in 2,000 views per week. I put different things on my blog to interest people. Facebook doesn't do much for me now, even though I have a fan page. I get the most people through Twitter it works for me. http://hillaryhermes.blogspot.com/
I've had 10 reviews here on GR and a half dozen on Amazon. I've run two giveaways here and have one more running.I seem to get the most responses from giveaways, but I've had some great unsolicited reviews as well.
I consider my writing craft a business, so I am trying to learn how to run it as a business. If it takes me posting to Twitter and Facebook and GR to get exposure, then that's what I do. If it takes talking about my book to people who ask me "So what is it that you do?", then I do that. I'm all about the marketing and the promotion.
And I am a shy person who doesn't like to do this. But it's part of the job, and it's OK once I get past the initial hurdle.
One thing I have noticed from giveaways here on GR: I get about the same number of entrants for a giveaway, but I get slightly more reviews if I offer more books--about 20% of the people review the book they get.
It's not mandatory, and people are winning a prize, not taking on a responsibility; still, I really appreciate the people who offer their reviews.
I've been lucky, I guess, that I haven't had too many reviews that panned the book entirely. Even a dozen monkeys at a dozen keyboards for a million years can turn out a sonnet or two...
As a reviewer I think I can respond to a few of your worries Don. These last 7 days I have received 14 works and turned down 3 requests based on genre. I have now read and reviewed all but 5 as this was a quiet week for me and I was reading non stop. I do make sure that every request receives a reply though.. I don't advertise on groups saying 'send me your requests' despite wanting to, as I'm scared I'd be swamped. I look on the groups for books that sound like my kind of thing and reply on that thread or PM that author direct. We are out there lurking Don, just not always in plain sight!
Genre is a big thing for me. I'm nearly 40 and know what I like and what is less likely to appeal. I say no to the latter as it wouldn't be fair to review something I'm less likely to like, as it would give the author a lower rating through no fault of their own. Sadly, fantasy is not one of my favourites so I can't review it for you.
I personally don't mind if the author is indie or self published. If I like the sound of the book, I'll review. There are some out there who think self published means 'too bad to get published' but I don't agree. I'm an optomist and prefer to think of self published as 'hasn't got that lucky break yet'. So I feel I'm doing good by doing that review.
My priority are read and review books from authors. Books I bought myself can sit a bit longer on the shelf but not everyone works that way and will put your book to the side if a favourite author releases a book. Me, I think if an author takes time to send a free copy, then I should thank them by giving them priority on my time. That's just how I am.
I really do understand your frustration. You have put all this energy into your work and just want others to appreciate it. I can understand you feeling a bit let down if a review is offered and never comes. Please don't lose heart and keep plugging away until you connect with the right reviewers for you.
Good luck!
Stephen wrote: "I've had 10 reviews here on GR and a half dozen on Amazon. I've run two giveaways here and have one more running.I seem to get the most responses from giveaways, but I've had some great unsolicit..."
I suggest seeking out reviewers outside of Goodreads... Book Bloggers will usually post reviews both on their sites and on Amazon and Goodreads. I can tell you though... one of the biggest reasons it is hard is because book reviewers are SWAMPED with request... I have a TBR pile of 40 books right now, and am also a writer...so I've had to stop accepting new requests for a bit to get through these.
Sometimes I see requests to review books that sound good, but I might just be too busy to add more to my list at that moment. Also some read and review sites only let you do one book at a time so you don't take on too much. It works both ways too....I've seen messages from authors looking for reviews and when I contact them, I don't get a reply, which is annoying.
Connecting Readers and Writers
Books mentioned in this topic
Nights at the Cuzco (other topics)Wander Home (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Lindsay Buroker (other topics)Michael J. Sullivan (other topics)
David Estes (other topics)
I don't mean to sound whiny or anything, but it seems like it's getting harder and harder to find someone ... anyone ... to review my books. I respond to discussion threads as soon as I spot them in my genre, only to usually have either 44 books ahead of me or the reviewer disappears off the face of the planet as soon as I post and never even acknowledges receiving a response. It can be extremely frustrating, especially since I write fantasy and I need those reviews to get noticed with literally hundreds of new fantasy books being released on a regular basis. I've had this problem now for four years ... and it's even more frustrating when other authors I help get reviews out their ears, while I can't even get one even through begging.
I'm not asking for reviews, because I know what's going to happen, this thread's going to be ignored and never heard from again. I just need to get this off my chest. Why, if I'm doing everything right (or at least what everyone else is doing), has it been impossible for me to even get a sniff?
< /rant >