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The Left Hand of Darkness
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October 2012 Random Read-The Left Hand of Darkness
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I'm planning to give it a go.
I'm excited we're reading this to kick my butt in gear and to pick up my copy off of the ole' "To-Read" paperbacks stack. This'll be fun!
I'm planning on joining in later in the month. I've been trying to read this one for years, and I keep stalling.
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I won't join in because I've read it in January. My to-read pile is too gigantic for a re-read so soon again."The Left Hand of Darkness" was my first Le Guin novel and pretty much love at first
I never fully warmed up to Ai, but Estraven is a wonderful character. I would have loved to experience more of the plot seen through his eyes. The relationship between both develops slowly, but steadily and ultimately with great intensity.
I found it quite interesting how Le Guin addressed gender issues without having even one genuinely female character in her novel.
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I do, too. I like the first person, too.
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Maybe she wanted us humans to take people that way too...
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Maggie, space cruisin' for a bruisin'
(last edited Oct 15, 2012 09:57AM)
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rated it 5 stars
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I'm about 2/3rds of the way through and despite having read the comments of others and background on the book regarding the roles of gender --- I haven't been able to read it that way at all. It's almost more, in my mind as I've read it through so far, been less about "what if everyone was on equal gender footing?" as much as it's been "an examination of caricatures of the societies we're familiar without the overbearing motivations of sex (not gender specifically) and all it impacts." Basic things like - How would conflicts between nation-states play-out without war caused by an overwhelming male-aggression/dominance factor inherent in the people? If sex-drives and all they impact are no longer pertinent - what does the world look like?Maybe my brain's over-simplified or misinterpreted.
That was needlessly verbose and confusing - my apologies.Also - agreed about liking the character of Estraven, though I find it difficult to not lazily identify him as Polonius.
scratch my ignorant ramblings - the duality and gender topics obviously increase in significance in the final leg of the book. that's what I get for posting before finishing haha
Zac wrote: "I'm about 2/3rds of the way through and despite having read the comments of others and background on the book regarding the roles of gender --- I haven't been able to read it that way at all. It's..."I think it's to the credit of the book that although that explanation for war is offered, it isn't pressed. I think the alternative explanation the book offers is far more realistic, and i think it's the one the book comes down on in the end (that war is simply all but impossible on a world where both survival and long-range travel are so difficult).
Due to a physical disability, I can only read books on my computer in e-book or PDF format. As far as I can tell, this book is not available in any format other than paperback, which sucks because The Dispossessed was and I really enjoyed it. I was looking forward to this one. Does anyone know of any place to find this book in a format that can be read on a computer?
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Neither did Ray Bradbury, and Arthur C Clarke books are impossible to find in any digital format. Interesting how many sci-fi writers appear to be technophobes.
That's weird. "The Left Hand of Darkness" is available for Kindle in the UK and Germany, but not the US. Amazon Germany also offers many of Clarke's books in e-book format. Perhaps it's more of publisher/country thing?Also, Le Guin was rather annoyed when she found herself on a list with SF authors who reject e-books, among them also Bradbury who really hated them. Her attitude is a more ambivalent and critical one.
Brian, I can hook you up with a copy, let me know where to email it to! As far as the book went, I liked it, not loved. When I read this was the fourth book in a series i was worried I would miss out on things and take a while to catch on. This did not happen. It works finely as a standalone novel. I also had the problem of always imagining the non-gendered people in my mind's eye as male. That is unless the author the spoke of their feminine qualities. I needed the reminders. I'm not sure what that says about me... Am I sexist? ... Dammit, well I guess all of earth is then. The writing was good and pretty immersive, although during that trek across the ice I just wanted it to be over already! It got a little slow there for me, but I usually read books with more action so it makes sense. It wasn't a favorite of mine, but I definitely strongly liked it!
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I finally have the book! Late, I know. Fall is always difficult for me to fit in the reading I want to do. If I have to choose between this and Bradbury to discuss before time is up, I'll probably choose Le Guin...
Austin-Thanks for the offer. Fortunately, I was able to find a PDF version online and even read it all. I thought it was slightly odd that the second half of the book basically turned into a survival story, but I like survival stories and enjoyed that part the most. The book seemed a little bit slow to get started, in my mind, but eventually really got into the world building and psycho/sociological stuff that Le Guin is really known for. We even got some interesting metaphysical stuff in this one. All in all, I thought it was a good read. I didn't like it as much as "The Dispossessed", but I have a special place in my heart for anarchy, so that might explain that, but it went by pretty quick and was definitely interesting.
Just found my copy of the book, in a drawer, so I'm going to continue reading it. Sigh. No idea how it got in there--a child was being helpful, I think.
I am about halfway through this book. Love the writing, not really sure where the story is going though.
I discovered, to my shame, that with some writing I have a tendency to "ship" people subconsciously, so I was having trouble from page one. By the time I got to the end, my fangirl was a shattered heap, but my "literature" brain was waving flags. It really didn't make for a happy ending for me, but I am glad that I read this book. It was a wonderful lesson.
I'm always surprised that people don't love this one the way I do. For me, it was a powerful statement about who you love vs. identifying as a specific sexuality. Le Guin's level of craft and restraint made the message that much more effective. This book opened my mind to new kinds of storytelling within the SF genre. It goes on a short list of books that helped me grow as a reader while I read them.
Just starting this incase anyone wants to chat about it.I'm in page 40 and I'm enjoying Ai's self analysis on his dislike of Estraven. He knows he shouldn't break up the persons actions into catagories of male and female which mean nothing to the androgynous alien but as he thinks of him as male because he is powerful it makes all of Estrovens perceived feminine attributes suspect.
But then there this:
"They behave like animals, in that respect; or like women. I did not behave like men, or ants. "
And that just bugged me.
Lena wrote: "And that just bugged me. "Pun intended?
UKL had an interesting way of metabolizing sexism in her writing. I recently read a different book of hers- The Tombs of Atuan- which had one of her rare female protagonists. In the afterward, she explained that she didn't want to do a straight gender flip, in which the female character is an adventurer who rescues the helpless, because that did not reflect the society in which she was writing the book (1970s America). Instead, she put her female protag inside a system that granted the semblence of power, but was actually pointless. UKL felt like that was a more accurate metaphor for the role of women in the society around her.
So maybe that pattern of thought informs the dialogue in Left Hand of Darkness- she wanted it to resemble things that people say in the real world.
Sounds reasonable, I've also heard it's meant to be funny. I just found it jarring but into a 1970s framework it's an illumination on the situation.
Page 78. There's speculation that the origin of androgyny could have been an experiment on the elimination of war.... did they consider war to be a purely masculine displacement-activity, a vast Rape, and therefore in their experiment eliminate masculinity that rapes and the femininity that is raped?
There is no war on this world, violence is short, passionate, and localized. Similar to kemmer.
More of a sociological study than a novel, I thought. I didn't enjoy it much.
Scott wrote: "More of a sociological study than a novel, I thought. I didn't enjoy it much."True. Personally, I like the sociological study-ness of it, but it's a question of taste.
I feel like I'm missing something important in the shadows...Page 65 Estraven
I must learn to live without
shadows as they do in Orgoreyn; not to take offense; not to offend uselessly.
Page 70 Obsle
None of your damn shadowy Karhidish metaphors, now Estraven. I wave shifgrethor; I discard it.
Page 120/121 Genli Ai
yet each of them lacked some quality, some dimension of being; and they failed to convince. They were not quite solid. It was, I thought, as if they did not cast shadows.
It seems to imply a willfully absent depth of character in the people of Orgoreyn.
Lena wrote: "It seems to imply a willfully absent depth of character in the people of Orgoreyn. "That sounds like a good interpretation. LeGuin is a Taoist, and shadows in her books often have spiritual symbolism- your shadow is the part of yourself that is hidden or unknown. It can also be the part of yourself that you fear or that consists of negative emotions.
Page 148 "They tended to be stolid, slovenly, heavy, and my eyes effeminate - not in a sense of delicacy, etc., but in just the opposite sense: a gross, bland flashiness, above vanity without point or edge."Genli Ai expresses a very negative view on femininity and acts sexless himself - monastic in that 'women will lead us to damnation' sense only less dramatic.
Page 200 Looks like shadows are a fundamental part of their creation mythos. Each of the children born to them had a piece of darkness the followed him about wherever he went by daylight. Edondurath said, "Why are my sons followed the spy darkness?" His kemmering said, "Because they were born in the house of flesh, therefore death follows at their heels. They are in the middle of time. In the beginning there was the son and the ice, and there was a shadow. In the end when we are done, the sun will devour itself and shadow will eat light, and there will be nothing left but the ice and the darkness."
Actually this is said to be an Orgota creation mythos. But Estraven and Genli Ai have both pointed out the Orgotha live without shadows.
Hmm. Two different cultures two different shadows beliefs or...
I need to keep reading...
Shifgrethor comes from the old word for shadow. Shifgrethor which is intrinsic to Karhide culture, the cautious game of pride, honor, manner, and esteem.
Lena wrote: "Page 148 "They tended to be stolid, slovenly, heavy, and my eyes effeminate - not in a sense of delicacy, etc., but in just the opposite sense: a gross, bland flashiness, above vanity without point..."I've always wondered to what extent Genly was written as intentionally, obviously misogynist, and to what extent he was written as how Le Guin saw American men of her era as being. Was Le Guin trying to hold a mirror up to nature, or was she intentionally exaggerating?
As someone not living in the US in the 1960s, Genly's views weren't so much horrifying as just... weird, and alien.
EDIT: incidentally, this is the book of the month over in the Sword and Laser group, so you may want to crosspost.
Thank you for the heads up!!!
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...Thanks for reading with me even though it was years later guys!
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