Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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All She Wrote
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October 2012, week 1: All She Wrote
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Anne
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Oct 06, 2012 02:56AM
I didn't manage to read or post yesterday, I ended up going out after work and had a few beers with my youngest brother in stead. It's a hard task, but someone's got to do it :). But I will return in strength later today!
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Aaaw. I bet that you more than deserved a few beers after that job interview. Sounds like some quality time between siblings... ;)
Mod
I liked the way chapter 6 started with describing Kit's attitude towards mornings — and of course the philosophical poem reference. And I liked the way the chapter closes with similar type of aphorism. We already know that there is a bequest in Anna's will for Nella. On chapter 4 (page 47) it said: "The money is to be used for a topnotch MFA program. All expenses paid. And no, she doesn't know about it. And in any case, I'm going to give her the money next fall." In the end of chapter 6 Nella asks Kit, if he thinks that it's necessary to have (completed) an MFA to get published. Kit says no, but tells that he wanted to finish his MFA, because he likes structure and organization and it gave him a starting point. (And THAT is a wonderful way to describe Kit's logic!!!) Anyway, the conversation and the chapter ends like this:
"I just want to start writing," Nella said passionately. "I don't want to wait to start my career."
I thought about Anna's plans for Nella. Well, that was life. The thing that happened while you were busy making other plans.
The main idea of the closing line is the same as in the poem Karen posted, isn't it.
Mod
In chapter 6 when the group is doing the round table, why, if Sara's writing is so good, is everyone so cool toward it? Is it the perception of her character (ice princess) or is it pure jealousy (though no one really exhibits such behavior)?"
Now when I've read this part, I have to say that I have no idea. It could be both things you suggested: her character and pure jealousy. Those were the reasons Kit was turning over in his mind.
To me it almost seems that the others don't take her involvement seriously. Not that there is really any specific evidence in their behavior to back up that thought. It was said on page 65 that they treated her with scrupulous politeness and a distinct lack of enthusiasm when it was her turn to read her story out loud. So the indifferent reception seemed to be very strong and no doubt unanimous. But the most prominent reactions are Rudolph's and Sara's. Rudolf seemed startled when Kit praised Sara's writing and Sara herself seemed surprised too.
Johanna wrote: "Lori wrote: "I've a question to throw out:In chapter 6 when the group is doing the round table, why, if Sara's writing is so good, is everyone so cool toward it? Is it the perception of her charac..."
I think many writers who aren't actually that good but too self absorbed to really see it are unable to (consciously or subconsciously?) appreciate good writing when they see it. I remember Thorny's blog post about a girl in his class sneering at him for writing romance while she's writing a chick lit! ( and not a good chick lit, I may add, judging by the content. x_x ).
Lori wrote: "I've a question to throw out:In chapter 6 when the group is doing the round table, why, if Sara's writing is so good, is everyone so cool toward it? Is it the perception of her character (ice prin..."
Good question! The situation is puzzling. Maybe Sara's story was so very good that they just didn't know what to say? Or the recognized it but were envious and not able to appreciate it, like Cleon said. If it was that good the others probably felt that their efforts were comming up short and as very new, unpublished writers weren't able to take it graciously.
Kit noticed that even Anna didn't make comments in the manuscript. Considering the fact that Kit didn't know that Sara was part of the AC it makes one wonder how her manuscript turned up in the stack.
Another thing I found interesting was how Poppy says:
"I started reading one of your books last night. You're mean."Kit seems surprised by that assessment. He might not have noticed that the comments he let Miss Butterwith say were sharper than usually, taking into account when the book was written. Is Poppy Seed exaggerating or are they really mean? I would be quite shocked to hear that somebody considers me to be mean or that I don't like people. He was told to ignore Poppy so we didn't get any in-depth thoughts. Will have to keep an eye on that. ;)
"Mean?"
"The little things you say about people. Those barbed what-do-you-call-'ems? Asides." (p. 69)
I think Poppy, by nature, is a bit of a shrew. She doesn't have much to say that's nice and she questions everything Kit has to say about publishing and even his own books, which I would think he, at least, would know well.
Mod
Kit's inner commentary is often sharp, clever, and snarky, as well as dead on. I'd guess that more of that inner voice comes out in his books — channeled by Miss Butterwith (and especially given when the book was written as you noted). But since Kit has the sense to edit what he says out loud in real life (well, most of the time), he's surprised to hear Poppy's judgement. The irony is that Poppy has no skill in self-editing/diplomacy; she says whatever she's thinking without regard to its affect. And Kit, despite the snark, is actually quite empathetic and understanding of human foibles.
Mod
Johanna, I loved that line. Another great chapter closing, and painfully true.
—
I've been noting Kit's inner mentions/thoughts about J.X. I think I counted five instances before his unsuccessful phone call — a head's up to readers (in case we need one) that he's not nearly over him.
—
There’s nothing more puzzling than human attachments. (Chap. 6, 23%)
I highlighted this, then realized something that will be increasingly obvious as the book progresses — Kit's five year age age with J.X. is truly negligible — and this business of age differences likely has more to do with the plot than showcasing one of Kit's insecurities.
For example:
Naturally, Poppy glanced around. “Oh. That’s Luke.” She added, with that disturbingly feral smile, “Anna’s handyman.”
“Her…?” And then with the disapproval of any Victorian papa, “Exactly how handy is he?”
“Very, from what I understand. Well, why not? They’re both adults.”
In fact, Anna was adult enough to be Luke’s mother. Age differences being something of a sore point right then. Not that five years was quite the same thing as forty. (Chap. 6, 20%)
And just a bit later:
Rowland nodded. He smiled at Nella, who blushed and smiled back. Ah-ha, I thought. Followed by, Uh-oh. Didn’t anyone want to date in their own age bracket these days? He had to be twenty years her senior, and yes, Nella was technically an adult, but the memory of how naive I’d been at twenty didn’t fill me with confidence. (Chap. 6, 23%)
Mod
This was the kind of acuity you were either born with or you weren’t. Like having perfect pitch or Brad Pitt’s cheekbones. (Chap. 5, 18%
Regarding why Sara's talent/skill seems not to be recognized by the other AC writers, I'm not sure that there's enough mature talent among them to recognize the same in another writer. Most of them to be very intent on the validation of Anna's approval, and the traditional regalia of literary success (an agent, publication, etc.) They also seem to know little about the industry beyond the hype and buzz-words. They certainly have little recognition/respect for any wisdom to be gleaned from Kit's sixteen years in the trenches.
And as in all well-done who-done-its, we're led to suspect there's something else going on...
I'm finally up to date with all your comments :)Well, that was life. The thing that happened while you were busy making other plans.
Loved the way the chapter ended with this phrase, I think it could be used to describe a lot of characters in this book, not only Nella.
Regarding the fact that no one seemed to praise Sara's work, I think partly they are envious, because the way Kit described it, the work is really, really good. Part it's also Anna and what Anna thinks. She seemed to praise Nella, but I haven't noticed her praise Sara.
You have all touched upon many of the things I noticed already, but there is one thing I like to mention, the way Josh writes about silence and winter, and the silence of winter. We have a classical author called Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson, and he has written a famous line;" There is nothing in the world as silent as snow" - " det er intet i verden så stille som sne".Josh describes it beautifully, both the silence outdoors and the silence indoors, the silence of anticipation of something sinister perhaps and the silence of the nature sleeping under snow.
Anne wrote: "You have all touched upon many of the things I noticed already, but there is one thing I like to mention, the way Josh writes about silence and winter, and the silence of winter. We have a classica..."
And that's something utterly alien to me, living as I have in the Deep South all my life. I associate snow with shrieking children, awful scraping noises, burning fingers, and the bone-deep ache of being cold when you're not set up for it.
And that's something utterly alien to me, living as I have in the Deep South all my life. I associate snow with shrieking children, awful scraping noises, burning fingers, and the bone-deep ache of being cold when you're not set up for it.
Karen wrote: "Well, that was life. The thing that happened while you were busy making other plans. (Chap. 6, 24%)Johanna, I loved that line. Another great chapter closing, and painfully true."
I don't think it's a John Lennon's original, but he used it in the song Beautiful Boy.
I am painfully behind, I'm sorry. To paraphrase the line above: Other people's weddings are what happens while you're busy making your reading plans. I hate preparations :)
Amber wrote: "Anne wrote: "You have all touched upon many of the things I noticed already, but there is one thing I like to mention, the way Josh writes about silence and winter, and the silence of winter. We ha..."Well, it can be like that too:)
Chapter 5.Calathea wrote: "The first sentence already made me laugh. For one there's another of those phrase for the pompous bed. Until now we had "sacrificial altar", "tomb-sized bed" and now "funeral bier.""
I'm keeping track of this too. This makes the reader feel closer to the narrator, it's as if we're all sharing insider's jokes, as if we're all collaborating to the story, Kit throws this lines, and we let ourselves be hooked. Even with Adrien I felt I was sharing the story, but with Kit it's even better.
I am not a teacher, or a proofreader, or an editor, but I think this is the embodiment of the nightmare of everyone who has to read other's people writings for a living:
I was prepared for anything. Entire novels in present tense. Entire novels without dialog tags. Entire novels in second-person POV. You are reading this book. You are not happy about it. You are not happy about much these days.
Isn't the last line a little stab in the heart. Kit's mind always goes back to a dissatisfaction he is not always successful at hiding.
Calathea: I loved your observation about page #50.
Chapter 6
About Sara's book and the other people's reaction, this gave me pause.
Sara, for one split second, looked touchingly unguarded.
That "touchingly" made Sara more human, and it made me more sympathetic to her.
Anyway this whole segment is puzzling. Is it the first time Sara participates? It might be that the others think with envy that, being so close to a great writer, she's benefiting from Anna's talent by osmosis? Sometimes real talent leaves people speechless, or they don't know how to react, so they remain cold until they've elaborated on that.
Well, Sara has been untouchable before then, right?
Mod
What a wonderful observation, Anne! This reminds me of how in SKHE Josh described Kit's and J.X.'s intimate moments together with sunny terms and warm colors when the weather outside was ominously stormy and murky. A very effective way to create a specific atmosphere in the story!
So, the lyrics of this lovely song must have been inspired by the Norwegian author Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson whom Anne mentioned:
Der er ingenting i verden så stille som sne,
når den sagte gjennem luften daler,
dæmper dine skridt, tysser, tysser blidt
på de stemmer, som for højlydt taler
Der er ingenting i verden av en renhed som sne
Svanedun fra himlens hvide vinger
På din hånd et fnug, er som tåredug
Hvide tanker tyst i dans sig svinger.
Der er ingenting i verden der kan mildne som sne
tys du lytter til det tause klinger
Å så fin en klang, sølverklokke sang,
inderst inde i dit hjerte ringer
The song is in Norwegian (which I don't speak), but since I understand Swedish, there are bits that I might be able to translate into English (and maybe Anne can help with the rest of it). I tried to find the translation, but failed to do so. Anyway, the song starts with the line Anne wrote earlier "there is nothing in the world as silent as snow". The lyrics describe how the snow is slowly falling, how it makes even one's steps become silent and how pure and innocent snow is. There is a beautiful line where the snowflakes are described as swan's feathers that fall from heaven's white wings. The snowflakes are also described as teardrops on one's hand.
The interesting thing is that we associate so different things and feelings with snow and winter. Just like Amber said:
"I associate snow with shrieking children, awful scraping noises, burning fingers, and the bone-deep ache of being cold when you're not set up for it."
One thing that comes to mind about winter and snow is the contradictory of it — it makes everything look magical, but the beauty of it can be deceptive.
Mod
I highlighted this, then realized something that will be increasingly obvious as the book progresses — Kit's five year age age with J.X. is truly negligible — and this business of age differences likely has more to do with the plot than showcasing one of Kit's insecurities."
I post-ited this too. There are a lot of odd and surprising attachments going on in this story. The line also kind of sums up Kit's fear about J.X. sooner or later figuring out that Kit is only, plainly, same old Kit — nothing more fancy.
Mod
Exactly!!!
Mod
"This makes the reader feel closer to the narrator, it's as if we're all sharing insider's jokes, as if we're all collaborating to the story, Kit throws this lines, and we let ourselves be hooked. Even with Adrien I felt I was sharing the story, but with Kit it's even better."
I think that you described this very well. When we are let to observe the narrator's train of thought this closely and share the insider's jokes with him, we become strong allies with him (just like you said) and we feel very empathic towards him — even at times when he does dumb things. ;)
Emanuela wrote: "I am not a teacher, or a proofreader, or an editor, but I think this is the embodiment of the nightmare of everyone who has to read other's people writings for a living:
I was prepared for anything. Entire novels in present tense. Entire novels without dialog tags. Entire novels in second-person POV. You are reading this book. You are not happy about it. You are not happy about much these days.
Isn't the last line a little stab in the heart. Kit's mind always goes back to a dissatisfaction he is not always successful at hiding."
So true!!!
Mod
Johanna wrote: " how do you feel about all the stories (the subjects and the plots) written by the participants of the writing seminar? Don't they create a special amount of suspense to the story?"Absolutely! Take Poppy's story as an example. She's writing about this woman who kills her husband. And the reactions you get from Kit and Nella show that it wasn't in a "clean" way. Sheds a light on her character and you and the participants of AC start asking themselves if she was able to do something like that (remember the sailing accident of her ex) or if she's just projecting all her hatred.
Generally there's a lot to be found of the participants' personal life in their story. I think of Rowland and his mother (who he called 'Mother' with a capital M).
I wonder how much of a story usually is part of the authors life (in which ever way) and wether unexperienced writers (maybe unconciously) use their own opinions and such way more in their work. Fact is that nothing can come out of a brain that didn't go in there somehow before (be it through living or reading or watching the movies or talking to other people). So, at least the novels of the writers in ASW give us a good glimps of their private thoughts, emotions and motivations.
Anne wrote: "Josh describes it beautifully, both the silence outdoors and the silence indoors, the silence of anticipation of something sinister perhaps and the silence of the nature sleeping under snow. "Thank you for mentioning this, Anne! I'm still in no mood to let summer go and not ready for winter, so maybe that's the reason I ignored it. ;) You're right about the silence of snow. It gives sound a certain quality that you don't get anywhere else. Sound seems to travel slower and a lot of the background noise is hushed so that some singular noises come across as louder or sharper than usual, more focused.
About the 'anticipation of something sinister': I wondered why Kit kept thinking about the silence in the house.
I couldn't help noticing how very quiet and empty the big house was. (p. 60)Is this quiet so unsettling because we expect there to be some background noise and its absence hints on somebody intentionally keeping quiet? And this can only be because of those sinister reasons? Isn't strange that when you sit somewhere, reading or so, you would lift your head and start listen carefully for some human made sound because subconsciously you noted there wasn't any?
Again I was struck by how still the house was. There was no sign of anyone. Not a creature was stirring. Not even a minion. (p. 61)
Amber wrote: "Am I the only one who thought of Poppy Done to Death?"Sorry for being an ignorant. ;) I don't know it. Is the plot similar to our Poppy's book or is it because of the name?
Johanna wrote: "Anne wrote: "Josh describes it beautifully, both the silence outdoors and the silence indoors, the silence of anticipation of something sinister perhaps and the silence of the nature sleeping under..."Thank you Johanna, and I shall confess my mistake, it is not by Bjørnson, but by Helge Rode. It is apparently on of those lines that everybody knows and apply to various poets without really knowing the right one. My apologies. :)The song is lovely and I always think about that first line when I listen to that silence of a snow covered landscape so unlike any other silence.
Mod
Oh yes. I couldn't help thinking Norman Bates when I read that. ;)
Calathea wrote: "Johanna wrote: " how do you feel about all the stories (the subjects and the plots) written by the participants of the writing seminar? Don't they create a special amount of suspense to the story?"..."I certainly noticed Kit's observation of Nelly's discomfort when talking about sex, "no wonder her sex scenes were so awkward". She probably tried to write about something she hasn't experienced yet. I have to admit to this evil thought that sometimes I feel the same while reading a clumsy try to write sex between two men by a woman who definitely writes about something she doesn't know about. Don't get me wrong, there are many m/m scenes beautifully written by women, but once in a while you find the opposite too.
Mod
I haven't read Aurora Teagarden series (although I actually have The Aurora Teagarden Mysteries: Omnibus 1 with books 1-4 on my bookshelf), so I wasn't familiar with the Poppy Done to Death. But you made me curious, though... ;)
Mod
Take my hand
Life is what happens to you
While you're busy making other plans
Thanks for the John Lennon reference, Emanuela. I missed it. As you wrote, I'm sure it's been said before, but it's very touching in that song.
Here's a YouTube version with a lot of family photos (if maybe a bit too much Ken Burns effect). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5BBEO...
Mod
Karen wrote: "Before you cross the streetTake my hand
Life is what happens to you
While you're busy making other plans
Thanks for the John Lennon reference, Emanuela. I missed it. As you wrote, I'm sure it's b..."
Thanks for posting. I have a soft spot for John :)
Just finished reading this section. Took me awhile to start since I new the ending. Usually that makes it easier for me, but I was afraid the story would be tainted. I still LOVE listening to Kit think. Just- Love. It. I've not been doing much analyzing because it's much more fun to just enjoy the ride. Sometimes I think similarly. I think of it as my inner South Park or Scrubs (depending on sit.). My inner Sit-Com narration. So, some of the things he says sound so familiar, at least in attitude. I guess it's twisted to find comfort in the inner monologue of a fictional character. =D
Thanks to ALL for the links and comments! I could "like" them all. Having a picture of the bed was Great! I would picture every time Kit came up with a new slam. I didn't know there were so many different ways to say "ostentatious" ;)
All the little writer/author-isms crack me up. It's got to be necessary to have a good sense of the absurd to stay sane(?) and stay being a writer. Going to writing conferences sounds excruciating!! Humor required.
Sorry nothing too meaningful to add- but what fun!
I love the way Josh tells so much without big info dumps. He disperses the info with seeds of snark, which sooo works for me. ;)
ps thanks for the John Lennon (another JL) link. I don't recall that song and certainly not with the pics. So sad, makes the line so much more powerful knowing he was murdered. Now I need to read the next chapter to cheer myself up!
Thanks all. Josh uses so many cultural word pictures, it makes his stories even MORE wonderful to collaborate. Josh's brain is just more powerful than mine. How he remembers and uses all this stuff... {shrugs}...clueless here.
Reggie wrote: "Sorry nothing too meaningful to add- but what fun! "Hey, that's why we do it, right? The fun! :D
@all: Please, feel free to keep posting in this topic when you want to comment on chapters 1 to 6.
Starting today with chapter 7 we move the discussion to the October 2012, week 2 topic.
Today it's John Lennon's birthday. He would be 72.
Mod
First words to mind...Imagine that.
Happy Birthday, Johnny lad!
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Karen wrote: "Before you cross the streetTake my hand
Life is what happens to you
While you're busy making other plans
Thanks for the John Lennon reference, Emanuela. I missed it. As you wrote, I..."
Though I love the song and the sentiment expressed in it, I was pretty sure I'd heard the quote attributed to someone else like Mark Twain. I didn't think it WAS Mark Twain, but someone like him. So I cheated and used ye olde Google to find Quote Investigator which attributes it to many, many people over the years, starting in 1957.
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/05/...
Mod
Thanks, Marge — what a fun and interesting reference page!
Mod
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/05/... "
Thank you so much for this link, Marge! What a great idea to have a site like that! I'm so glad you used ye olde Google... ;)
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
The Aurora Teagarden Mysteries: Omnibus 1 (other topics)Poppy Done to Death (other topics)
Poppy Done to Death (other topics)
Somebody Killed His Editor (other topics)
The Alienist (other topics)
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