Wuthering Heights
discussion
I often wonder how Heathcliff, whose acts are often mean spirited bullying, is often seen as a Byronic hero, romantic in either the Byronic or the modern sense? (Polite note to avoid misunderstandings: I do know the differences between the two).
I had a similar reaction, as when I first read Wuthering Heights I was completely shocked at how horrible Heathcliff was as a person! Not at all how I expected based on what I'd heard, and not a very likeable character (he improved upon a re-read, but only slightly).I read somewhere that part of the reason for this 'misconception' is due to the fact that the first half of the story (where Heathcliff is bullied/treated badly) is much more well known than the second half (where he becomes a tyrant), and many film adaptations only emphasise/show the first half. I haven't watched any adaptations myself though, so I'm not sure how accurate that idea would be.
Heathcliff is just the romantic bad guy you fall in love with. I admit he's violent, nasty and possesive but somehow his immens love for Catherine, he admires the ground on wich she walks, makes him disturbingly actractive.
Mary: That point about the films is very valid, thanks for pointing it out, and it might go some way to explaining why people who haven't read the book imagine Heathcliff to be a romantic figure. But I don't see why those who have see him in that light; romantic anti heroes don't bully the weak and helpless.I read it a third time as my daughter was reading it for the first time (she didn't think much of it, but that's irrelevant here) and expected to be less disgusted by Heathcliff's sadism, but I was more disgusted by it.he is even shown as being a tell tale as a boy...
Emma wrote: "Heathcliff is just the romantic bad guy you fall in love with. I admit he's violent, nasty and possesive but somehow his immens love for Catherine, he admires the ground on wich she walks, makes hi..."
Emma, I know a lot of readers perceive Heathcliff as an anti hero, but the romantic bad guy isn't usually depicted as doing such cowardly things as bullying women and children,(Hareton, when young; but he is too sturdy to be frightened by it) kicking an unconscious opponent about the head, torturing animals, etc.
Wouldn't seeing him as a romantic character be to fall into the same trap as Isabella?
There is also the purely unromantic - and comic - fact of his miserliness, illustrated by the fact that though as a gentleman farmer he can afford to eat meat (and we may assume with is penchant for hanging spaniels he isn't a vegetarian) they have a dismal dinner of porridge.
I wonder more women readers don't feel more for poor misguided Isabella, who thought him a romantic figure.
In fusing his whole identity with Catherine's, isn't Heathcliff making the stereotypically feminine error of submerging his identity in that of a love object? That is one of the reasons that makes his being seen as a macho type rather odd. I believe that there are indications he was originally intended to be a half brother with an incestuous passion for Catherine, true to Byron himself?
I wonder if that critc was right and Emile Bronte was having a laugh at the reader's expense, giving her character an apparently romantic bent and testing how much the reader could see him do in the way of mean actions, and still believe him to be romantic?
But in everyday life women fall in love - unfortunatly - with ***holes who beat them or do disgusting things like killing animals or even people and still forgive them en keep loving them. My country is now in a buzz because of the fact that a women named Michel Martin is releast from jail after 16 years. Her crime: she helped her husband ,Marc Dutroux, kidnap and rape women. They wend to jail for that, got realeased and after that she still stayed with him, after that, her husband started kidnapping little girls and she painted the basemend he hid them in, washed there clothes and bought food for them wile he was hurting them. When he went to jail again she starved the two girls he had kidnapped then to death. When they got arrested, again,4 girls were death and 2 saved. I'm telling this to show how wicked emotions like love can be. Martin did this because she loved her husband, the father of her children. Even when he did all of this evil things she kept helping him.Maybe some girls and women feel the same way for Haetcliff: even when he beats women and hangs up dogs they forgive him.
I must admit I find Haethcliff very attractive as well (the handsome, dark gypsy with long hair) but I'm mentally healthy enough to get so angry about his actions that I want to slap him in the face. Also in real life I would not even think to have a relationship with such a man, but yes, through the book I'm sometimes jelaus at Catherine for having such a passoniate realationship with him.
P.S.: I want to appolagise for bad spelling but english is not my native languige (and I'm dyslextic)
It is a book,I will never forget( I read it several moons ago). I do not see Heathcliff as a romantic hero. I felt sorry for him as a little boy but as a grown man, he frightened me.
Emma: your English is better both than my French and Welsh, anyway! To write about abstract ideas in a second or third language is very difficult, and you've done brilliantly. Your comments are very intriguing, and I think raise an interesting point; are those who see Heathcliff as a romantic hero falling into the same terrible misapprehension as Isabella? I wonder if he was meant to be handsome, though, as we never hear what his features are like and Edgar's own 'handosmeness' is always contrasted by Catherine and others to his?
Intriguingly, if Catherine ever touches upon the topic of physical attraction, it is with reference to Edgar, and even taking into account Victorian British prudery and censorship and Emile Bronte's own almost certain lack of sexual experience, that might give us a fascinating insight.
Marren: The book did leave me with a bleak sort of feeling; all that destructiveness to no purpose. If Heathcliff had ever expressed repentance for what he has done, I would have felt very sorry for him, but as he in some distorted way believes himself right to the end (for sure, Catherine would certainly not have agreed with him so one wonders what her ghost has to say to him, when finally they are reunited) I could only feel a bit sorry for him.
Hah, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks he is a bully, and totally NOT romantic. What a bum he is.Yes, there are loads of women that are attracted to that type, but a romantic "hero" of literature?
Not likely IMO at least.
Haven't seen any of the films, but am curious enough to investigate. I'll look up the one mentioned above, thanks Rebecca.
Rebecca wrote: "I own most of them. I think there's only 2 I don't have: the Laurence Oliver one and the one with Ian McShane. Yes, in all the others, Heathcliff is a tortured, pitiable soul: maybe he brings out o..."Rebecca and Cateline,
Lol, I did laugh at some of the melodrama in this, as when Heathcliffe appears at the window 'his white teeth gnashing' at Hindley. There we are, you see! That spartan diet gave him a good set of gnashers at least.
I did just order the Davidson version from Amazon. I purposely ignored the Timothy Dalton, I have a definite weak spot for that fellow and didn't want my liking of TD get in the way of my perceptions of Heathcliff. Will report back. :D
For me he represents the tragedy of 'what might have been.' Heathcliff is the individual concentration in one person of the essence of the entire book in that respect.He (like most of the other characters) had so much potential for good and for a happy well-ordered life and yet that was all perverted by his upbringing and the cruel way he was treated. His intelligence, business acumen and capacity for intense loyal love - all wasted as his goodness was eaten away by resentment and hurt.
I like to see this book in parallel with Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons She took very similarly twisted individuals and in her parody had them all 'fixed' by the eminently sensible Flora Poste. If only Heathcliff and the Earnshaws had had a relation of that ilk earlier on.
But then we wouldn't have had Wuthering Heights.
Heathcliffe is an enigma. From the start of the novel we have no idea where he comes from although we suspect he could be Mr Earnshaw's love child... and as such wouldn't be a match for Cathy anyway. For me his allure is his complete devotion to Cathy, although he is vile after she dies to his poor wife and Hareton. Heathcliffe is wild, untameable, almost feral but intensely passionate and deeply in love with Cathy, they are soul mates and that is his enduring appeal.
Heathcliff was. Heathcliff was downright malicoius and villainous to say the least. He was frightening and a cold hearted nightmare. He was a deeply disturbed emotionally. He was mysterious. He was revenge. He was jealous. He was a child abandoned on the streets. He was a child abused. He was a man in love. He was a man in pain. He was supersticous and shrouded life in black humor. He was bitter. He could behave like a gentleman to hide his true self. He was masterfully conniving which shows he was intelligent. He hated. He felt. He was passion. His character was beautiful.
Very interesting comments, everyone, for sure it is now seen as a commonplace that the victim becomes the bully, attacking the vulnerable, and Heathcliff takes this to extremes. But I can't agree that any man who abuses women and children ever could have had the capacity for a 'beautiful' character, Victoria...And we have to remember before his abuse by Hindley he was shown as having no gratitude or affection for Earnshaw's championship, besides being a tell tale (as in that episode when he demands Hindley's horse).
I have never liked anything the Bronte's have written. Heathcliff, especially, repulsed me from the first moment I read about him. He's mean, spiteful, tyrannical, hateful, deceptive, and awful. I don't care how terribly he was treated in his past, I find someone that overcomes hardship to rise above it in deed and action someone I could be more enamored with. Blaming his childhood for his adult behaviors is just an excuse to be awful.No, I can't stand this book. I have read it a few times, thinking perhaps I was wrong about it, but no, I can't stand this book. I think the hype over 50 Shades is similarly misplaced.
Jeni, One feels bleak at the end of the book.I was hoping until the last pages that Heathcliff would be sorry for some of his awful deeds, but I was disappointed. I am perturbed that a large proportion of women readers seem to find him attractive despite his cruelty; if he was aggressive towards other aggressive males, that would be one thing; but he delights in being cruel to those who can't fight back and I have always found that so repellent that I wonder at the admiration he seems to inspire. I'd take a guess that Emile Bronte did not intend that.
I agree with Susan, when she says that "his allure is his complete devotion to Cathy". I mean, who doesn't want to have someone - especially a big, powerful man - bend to your every wish? And Heathcliff does say he would have done anything, accepted anything from Catherine.On the other hand, I have never thought of Heathcliff as a romantic hero. Romantic heroes, I think, tend to be transformed by love in a positive way: they become compassionate, gentle, optimistic, kind. But Heathcliff, who is obviously deep in the claws of passionate love, is transformed in a negative way. Anything good that might have existed in him is destroyed by his passion; worse, by his shunned passion.
Actually, what makes me love the book and hail it as one of my favourite ones, is Bronte's courage to show love's ugly face. So very few people do so despite the fact that it's, unfortunately, fairly common. In fact, it's why I haven't enjoyed any of the films: they tend, IMO, to ignore the 'ugly love' part, just as they ignore that Catherine was the Master in that relationship. Even when Heathcliff disobeyed her, even then she had power over him.
Doesn't Wuthering Heights need to be judged on its merits given the time in history it was written?When Emily Bronte wrote the novel class divisions and gender roles were cast in iron. Emily was the daughter of an anglican clergyman and as such was witness to many of the injustices of the time.
Like her contemporary Dickens she wrote about social conditions. I wonder if she wrote Heathcliff the way she did because she was internally conflicted herself?
On the one hand aghast at the way people were warped and damaged due to their station in life rather than being able to flourish according to their natural abilities. On the other hand trepidatious as to what might happen if the old social structures were swept away?
So Heathcliff becomes a monster because how could anybody who ventured outside their class and dared to see themselves as equal to their betters become anything else?
In those days 'knowing one's place' was all. It is no coincidence that the novel is narrated by the out of place Lockwood - a city person lost in the primitive uncivilised (as he sees it) country and Nelly Dean - the properly deferential housekeeper who finds her entire contentment in witnessing and serving her masters and mistresses.
Also bear in mind that both Lockwood and Nelly Dean are what is known as 'unreliable narrators' - their telling of the story needs to be read with a pinch of salt. Their prejudices colour their 'witness statements' and neither of them approve of the upstart Heathcliff and are unlikely to tell the whole truth and are very likely to put a negative slant on what they see and blame him when maybe the 'truth' is not so black & white.
That's why I like matriarchal societies, Sara, lol!
Yes, I can see the time capsule of Wuthering Heights very clearly and it is a fascinating glimpse into the past. Jane Austen does that for me, as well. Regardless how the times were as presented in the books, the love affair of Heathcliff and female readers continues today. This is what boggles my mind. I have heard women describe him as their ideal mate. Seriously? Who wants to be treated that way? On purpose?
I also tend to believe that female authors of the times were extremely oppressed and lucky to be published as women. So, I am never surprised when the world seems to be over-balanced in the man's favor. It was likely their only outlet for venting their frustration with the way things were.
One bible version notes Proverbs 19:11, "The insight of a man certainly slows down his anger,and it is beauty on his part to pass over transgression."
When we understand *why* Heathcliff acts the way he did, we (hopefully)tend to be more forgiving of his character.(This is not to say that I find him appealing!)
He was mistreated as a boy , gave his heart to Catherine, who I say did not deserve it. He went off to become something for her,yet when he comes back, he is betrayed by her flighty self.
Yet he still loves her.
His mistreatment of others( wrongly so) I think is due to him being angry at his birth , his childhood, at Catherine herself for being fickle,and the offspring that they both had. He wanted to have children with Catherine so when he had his, what I call his'revenge child' he ended up hating that child as well.
Of course considering the time it was written,the authors feelings about romance etc I say this story is a very interesting but sad/tragic love story about imperfect people who do not get what they want.
Writers like to have fun with the characters and the fact that we are still discussing Emily Bronte's Heathcliff, is proof of what a excellent job she did in telling her story and creating memorable characters.
Astrid wrote: "One bible version notes Proverbs 19:11, "The insight of a man certainly slows down his anger,and it is beauty on his part to pass over transgression."
When we understand *why* Heathcliff acts ..."
Astrid: For sure one should pity such a tormented being (as Nelly does) and distinguish between the person and the dreadful things that they do, but that is different from women readers finding Heathcliff a romantic fantasy figure, which is what I find perturbing in reactions to this or any novel where a bully is seen as desirable.
Rebecca: Lol again! I'll find reading about that character fascinating, is he in 'The Year God's Daughter'? Theseus in June Rachuy Brindle's 'Ariadne' and 'Phaedra' is like that...
I think Cathy was meant to be physically attracted to Edgar (in so far as Victorian repression and her own almost certain sexual inexperience enabled Emily Bronte to understand or portray that) and his easy charm, what Heathcliff calls her 'Poor fancy'.
It's an interesting thing, you know; I dont know if anyone here has read Elizabeth Gaskell's 'Sylvia's Lovers'? Now, in that I always disliked the romantic interest Charley Kinraid's fickleness. I would appear to be in a minority in that even in my first reading of the book I found Heathcliff's obsessive mourning too much of the same thing, almost boring afer a while. Odd...
Lucinda wrote: "Astrid wrote: "One bible version notes Proverbs 19:11, "The insight of a man certainly slows down his anger,and it is beauty on his part to pass over transgression."
When we understand *why* H..."
Yes ,I agree, it is distressing that people tend to idolize/romanticize/yearn for abusive characters. I do not find Wuthering Heights to be as disturbing as a popular story right now (that I wont name) that the main feature is abusive sex, physical violence towards women and is marketed towards women. So many women love this book,the characters and the subject matter.
Now that leaves me scratching my head.
Astrid and Rebecca, that perturbs me too, and it has sinister implications for domestic abuse. I think it's part of the problem of the mainstreaming of pornographic images and an uncritical attitude towards abuse of women in it which Natasha Walter analyses so well in her book 'Living Dolls; the Return of Sexism'.
Lucinda wrote: "Astrid and Rebecca, that perturbs me too, and it has sinister implications for domestic abuse. I think it's part of the problem of the mainstreaming of pornographic images and an uncritical attitud..."Again, I have to agree with you Lucinda.The dehumanization of people for ones own selfish gratification as opposed to something mutually beneficial and emotionally fulfilling, is something that is constantly featured in the media.Our younger generations( and any one who is attracted/bombarded by it) is desensitized to the humans behind the acts.
I will look for that book to read, thank you for the suggestion.
The reason so many women are attracted by the recent book is because the 'hero' (for want of a better word) is redeemed by the 'heroine' because she loves him enough to 'fix' him.The reason Heathcliff attracts so many women is because they feel they would be the one to 'put him right' if they had the chance.
The sad fact is that most violent men cannot be 'fixed' by the love of a good (or a bad) woman - and the woman is almost always endangered/hurt or emotionally traumatised in the misguided belief they can achieve the impossible.
All we can do is speak out against it any way we can - and to bring our sons up in a way that mitigates against this primitive urge.
I completely understand the instinct to feel challenged/attracted to difficult men - but I also recognise it as a trap. Younger more naive and foolish women won't see that. Then again there are women who enjoy the book - can clearly see what it is and enjoy it purely as a fantasy. There are even some women (which I cannot fathom) who fantasize about being raped - they definitely don't want to be raped in real life and they don't see real-life rape as anything other than a terrifying horrible vile thing - and yet as a fantasy where they are in 'control' and 'safe' they enjoy it.
People are weird and if we all understood everybody's foibles and all thought and felt the same way about everything - life would be very boring.
Astrid, Wise words. I think Natasha Walter has a good point that women's fantasties are a product of the violent male dominated society we live in. In a differnt one, they might not be masochistic at all, or self abnegating. I find it a bit awful that so many young women imagine they can 'fix' abusive men - the men tell them so, too. It was very astute of Emile Bronte to put in Isabella's belief she could 'fix' Heathcliff as a warning, to which many woman readers to this day remain oblivious...
There is something pretty alarming about the regressive nature of the modern book. I have to admit I find the thought of it so distasteful that I haven't been able to bring myself to read it.
Michelle, very true. I am dismayed that this is the attitude today; after fifty years challanging of this sort of thing; there seems to be a disturbing regression.
I have to admit finding it hard to relate to or empathise with any of the characters in Wuthering Heights. I felt that both Heathcliff and Catherine were shallow and Catherine in particular was spoilt and obnoxious. Because of this I struggled to feel the deep love that these two were supposed to have for each other, which of course is the crux of the story.
I was a bit taken aback at how childish the female characters were and the male characters were either brutish, weak or incredibly northern (I'm northern so I'm not having a pop!).
I am aware that many readers see this as a well loved classic and so maybe I have missed something. I am yet to read more books by the Bronte sisters and intend to give 'Jane Eyre' a try.
Lucinda wrote: "This is what I put in my review of Wuthering Heights after my third reading (Bronte geek, or what?!): -I have long been fascinated by this. Like so many people, I find it a flawed work of genius..."
Greetings Lucinda :)
I have to say that your topic question intrigued me because, in my experience, I haven't found it to be the case. Any time I've had the opportunity to discuss this classic, Heathcliff has never been described by me or to me as a "romantic" anything. I was quite shocked to see that this appears to be the view of some.
In my case, I've found the relationship between Healthcliff and Catherine to be darkly, tragically, and romantically complex and tortured ... but not the characters themselves. The relationship that they have--and how it pervades those of future relationships--has always been like a non-visible character in itself (to me). It certainly seemed to have a life of its own.
A more modern analogue might be found in the plethora of "vampire" and "dark" fiction that abounds both in books and movies / TV: Buffy v. Angel v. Spike, the horror that is Twilight, and the Sleeping Beauty series by Anne Rice.
Cclose, I'm glad that like me, you were dismayed to find that some woman readers take the 'romantic' interpretation of Heathcliff. Intriguing, what you say about the ambience creating an additional character; occultists talk of situations having an astral personality; it must be on the lines of that?
Lisa: I think that over simplistic characterisation is one of the faults of the novel, that and melodramatic scenes that border on the ludicrous. For instance,Heathcliff foaming at the mouth when Nelly tries to separate him form the dying Catherine, and his teeth flashing in his rage as he is locked out of Wuthering Heights, Catherine grinding her teeth 'as if she would turn them to splinters' struck me as being serious flaws in a fascinating novel. Plus, the the fact that Heathcliff is never shown as repentent which, as I said above, made the ending feel bleak and unsatisfactory to me.
It was very astute of Emile Bronte to put in Isabella's belief she could 'fix' Heathcliff as a warning, to which many woman readers to this day remain oblivious..."Yes. And something that, unfortunately hasn't changed, is how some women interpret acts of warning, such as when Heathcliff killed Isabel's dog and she still decided to go with him.
Sara, I so agree. In sacrificing her dog after some ineffectual 'pleading for it' Isabella is sacrificing herself.
Hi Lucinda :)I wanted to read WH because as a child I remember going on holiday to Haworth, looking round the Brontes' home and going on a walk up to 'Top Withens' - an old ruined farmhouse said to be the inspiration for the Earnshaw residence.
I have to say that Emilys' style of writing did bring back the atmosphere and scenery of that area (although now of course, it's not that bleak!). I just felt a bit disappointed in the overall character development. I honestly didn't find anyone in the story (with the possible exception of Ellen Dean) to be likeable.
I'm all for dark and tortured characters, but I didn't feel I knew enough about Heathcliff to really care one way or another. I really wanted to like this book :(
I felt that both Heathcliff and Catherine were shallow and Catherine in particular was spoilt and obnoxious."I understand what you mean, Lisa. However, I wouldn't use the word shallow, but... we have a very good word for it in Portuguese, 'ensimesmado', but I can't seem to find an English equivalent: they were focused only on themselves, their own whims and needs,and as shallow as those whims might be to the world, they were earth-shattering to themselves.
Now, spoilt and obnoxious? People hungry for power do tend to be spoilt and obnoxious. And, as fas as I can see, that's Catherine's main trait. She yearns to control everything and everyone around her, and both Linton and Isabel do tend to avoid aggravating her. That is, until Heathcliff's ressurgence.
Anyway, I think Catherine and Heathcliff are perfectly suited for eachother: they're both untamed, selfishly uncivilised and hungry for power, one way or the other.
Sara wrote: "I felt that both Heathcliff and Catherine were shallow and Catherine in particular was spoilt and obnoxious."I understand what you mean, Lisa. However, I wouldn't use the word shallow, but... we ..."
Greetings Sara,
I think the best English equivalent for "ensimesmado" would be self-absorbed.
Lucinda wrote: "Cclose, I'm glad that like me, you were dismayed to find that some woman readers take the 'romantic' interpretation of Heathcliff. Intriguing, what you say about the ambience creating an additiona..."
Greetings Lucinda,
Re: You wrote, "...occultists talk of situations having an astral personality; it must be on the lines of that?"
Not only in that way, but in the way that many genres or creations (literary or otherwise) have environments, relationships or atmospheres that move the story along to the same degree as the characters.
For example, the remake of Romeo and Juliet that "starred" Leo DiCapprio worked completely differently from traditional productions because of the drastic change in environment. The setting gave it almost the quality of an unseen character saying, "Look over there!!" repeatedly throughout the movie.
Alternately some genres would read the same even if the environment, relationships, or characters were changed: i.e. romantic schlock.
Hi Sara,Yes, C-Cose is right, I would use the term self absorbed to describe Heathcliff and Catherine. I agree that using the word 'shallow' is perhaps too simplistic.
I suppose because of the harsh nature of them both, I felt too detached from them to really 'feel' any of their motives.
It's a good point you make about Catherine being very controlling. She is the only one after all who has any real influence over Heathcliff. I think my empathy for her disapeared when she spoke to Ellen regarding her marriage to Edgar. I just thought that she would know how much her decision would hurt Heathcliff but she went ahead and did it anyway...then spent all her time at Thrushcross Grange whining petulantly at everyone! I found it hard to see what anyone in their right mind would see in her! I'm being very harsh aren't I?!
I love the book but I don't really like any of the characters and I especially dislike Heathcliff. I felt pity for him in the first half of the book but I was utterly disgusted by his actions later on.I don't understand how someone could view him as romantic, I was actually a bit dismayed by his obsession with Cathy and I can understand where you are coming from.
My mother only watched a recent movie adaption of the book and didn't read it and when I told her that I thought Heathcliff was a horrible, despicable character she was surprised, because the movie doesn't include what happens in the second part of the book and I think that it changes the story somewhat to a love story. And I don't think Bronte meant the book to be a love story.
This is my fav' book, but I detest Heathcliff with a passion. His bitterness envelopes him, he is ruled by it, and he has left no room for real love in his heart. His love for Cathy is distorted, all-consuming, and unhealthy. He turned his fortune around, and could have re-written his future, but he decided to let it destroy him, and I think that's why the relationship is so interesting. To me, it is about a waste of life, over a love that could have been, perhaps should have been. It leaves an ache in my heart, that they chose to ruin each other, let any chance of real, healthy love seep through their fingers. Heathcliff is a cruel character, angry and bitter, and he only shows remorse for how he treated Cathy after her death.
Rebecca wrote: "Well now I feel I can confess that the Timothy Dalton is my favorite of all the versions I own. He is just so damn good in everything he does. (his is my favorite Jane Eyre, too). You can't help lo..."Mine too. :) I believe it is the truest to the book of the lot.
Victoria wrote: "Heathcliff was. Heathcliff was downright malicoius and villainous to say the least. He was frightening and a cold hearted nightmare. He was a deeply disturbed emotionally. He was mysterious. He was revenge. He was jealous. He was a child abandoned on the streets. He was a child abused. He was a man in love. He was a man in pain. He was supersticous and shrouded life in black humor. He was bitter. He could behave like a gentleman to hide his true self. He was masterfully conniving which shows he was intelligent. He hated. He felt. He was passion. His character was beautiful..."
This is a great take on Heathcliff, Victoria. I only have one quibble.....I don't believe he was capable of true love. He craved to possess and dominate. Cathy was wild and would not be dominated.
Lisa wrote: "I am aware that many readers see this as a well loved classic and so maybe I have missed something. I am yet to read more books by the Bronte sisters and intend to give 'Jane Eyre' a try...."Please, please. Do not judge Jane Eyre by Wuthering Heights!! Years ago I read an article that spoke of the differences between the novels. The crux of the article came down to the fact that they believed readers that loved one, at the least, disliked the other. It is certainly true in my case. Jane Eyre is one of my favorites of all time. Rochester is absolutely nothing like Heathcliff. Rochester is capable of a great and lasting love.
Since posting my first comment, I've taken more time to read other comments in this thread and am .... bewildered.Specifically comments #16 (Susan) and #17 (Victoria) have me baffled. Many of the qualities that were listed could easily be attributed to any number of mass murderers, abusers, and other violent criminals currently incarcerated and throughout history. Yet, I doubt that on average those men (and women) would be considered "romantic" persons. Jeffrey Dahmer is an excellent example of a man that is reported to have been "deeply disturbed emotionally ... mysterious ... revenge ... jealous ... a child abandoned on the streets ... a child abused ... a man in love ...etc.". His actions were far from romantic.
Don't get me wrong ... I enjoy a lad that's rough around the edges as much as the next woman or man, but I just don't see the man, Heathcliff, as romantic.
As I stated earlier, his relationship with Catherine ... yes. Him .... definitely not.
I couldn't figure it out either. Heathcliff's a douche. I never found him romantic in the slightest, he's a sick cheater with some serious relationship issues.
Fascinating discussion. Perhaps one of the problems is that Emily Bronte, the parson's daughter, very religious if not in a conventional way, assumed certain moral assumptions (grudges are wrong, living an existence inspired soely by a desire for revenge will only redound on the perpetrator) violence against women and chlldren is disgusting, etc, and possibly didn't make her own moral standpoint clear because she didn't want to be an instrusive narrator. Nelly Dean is too unimaginative and fallible to make an effective moral commentator.
Accordingly, some modern readers make mistaken assumptions about Heathcliff (ignoring the warning that she author gives the reader in Isabella, who thinks, like some modern readers, that she could be the one to'heal him' nobody could); they don't see that his barbarities are catalogued for a reason.
Unfortunately, today, the moral guidelines aren't as clear and people get mistaken ideas about Heathcliff, especially, as others have said, through inaccurate depictions in films.
Emily Bronte may not have been judgemental, but for sure she wouldn't have seen his behaviour as anything but contemptible.
I must admit, my faviourate is The 1978 TV Series (Ken Hutchison and Kay Adshead)one and I do love The 1992 Movie (Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche - I like Binoche's kathy, the way heathcliff eventually makes her dead inside. I don't like Tom Hardy's Heathcliff. I even love Cliff Richards musical based on the book *sings* I do not love you Isabella, I never have and never will...........
Heathcliff is a romantic hero in the sense of Byronic romanticism and, in that sense, he is fairly typical: moody, broody, destructive to self and others, flaunts his opposition to conventional behaviour and morals. He represents nature over civilization and emotion over rational thought. The ultimate hero of romanticism was Satan seen as more misunderstood than evil. This kind of hero or anti-hero became popular in the late 18th century and, although Byron wasn't the first to use him, he is probably the best known of the romantic writers, going so far as to emulate him in his own persona; that is, until, it caused a huge scandal proving for possibly the first time, but certainly not the last, that Romantic heroes are fine in literature, not so much in real life. This kind of romantic hero, and romanticism in general, lost favour among the poets during the first half of the 19th c but became linked to the gothic novel in mid century when Emily Bronte was writing.
Maxine wrote: "Heathcliff is a romantic hero in the sense of Byronic romanticism and, in that sense, he is fairly typical: moody, broody, destructive to self and others, flaunts his opposition to conventional beh..."Thanks for the synopsis of Bryonic style and its period Maxine. But, do you find Healthcliff to be a "romantic" figure, reading his story in 2012, given a current definition of "romantic", as a woman?
For a book-character Heathcliff might be attractive in some sort of way and yes you might even fall in love with him but I don't think you can really define him as romantic more than attractive. Like others in this discussion stated, that kind of atractivness might come of the fact that some women would want to try to change him. In real life I think he ought to be castrated (but that's just my opinion about all men who mistread women) also in real life if I somehow managed to fall in love with him even though his abussive caracter that love would have had ended the moment he first killed an animal. (That's a clear line for me. No-one should kill harmless animals like those little birds and that poor doggy).But watch how I always say 'in a book' en 'in real life' there is a difference. A book is a fanatacy and I'm pretty sure everybody ever imagined to fall in love with a 'bad boy' wile in real life you surely wouldn't do so because first of all nobody likes to suffer, not even by the hands of a handsome man (alright maybe some), second of all because of the consequenses, I would never start something with a men like Heathcliff out of fear he might hurt my dogs (maybe not a good reason but I would die protecting my dogs) in a book I can go rescue those poor birds and I can find the dog on time to save him but in real life the consequens would be losing something I love the most. You understand what im trying to say?
Oh, beside I found this on wiki. Might find it interresting: "Heathcliff is a fictional character in the novel Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë. Owing to the novel's enduring fame and popularity, he is often regarded as an archetype of the tortured romantic hero whose all-consuming passions destroy both himself and those around him.
He is better known as a romantic hero, due to his love for Catherine Earnshaw, than for his final years of vengeance in the second half of the novel, in which he grows into a bitter, haunted man, and for a number of incidents in his early life that suggest that he was an angry and sometimes malicious individual from the beginning. His complicated, mesmerising and altogether bizarre nature makes him a rare character, with components of both the hero and villain"
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I have long been fascinated by this. Like so many people, I find it a flawed work of genius. I am intrigued by the powerful writing, the evocative description, the delight in nature, the merciless depiction of the tormented, relentless Heathcliff and Catherine, and like so many I love that famous last sentence about the 'quiet earth'.
However, I am totally puzzled as to why so many people seem to find this weird combination of Emily Bronte's Gondal imaginings, Byronic Gothic character and scrimping 'gentleman farmer' a romantic hero.
Excuse me?! This is the man who is so mean he eats porridge for dinner and who beats the younger Catherine about the head, who won't let the pregnant Isabella sleep in a bed, who kicks the unconscious Hindley repeatedly and who as a ittle boy, told tales on his foster brother, knowing that Earnshaw senior would automatically take his side...
To use that splendid US expression, the man acts like a jerk. Clearly he and Catherine have some serious problems concerning quasi incestuous longings and identity,and those Linton's were incredibly foolish to tangle with either of them.
It has even been argued that Heathcliff is somehow an avenger of the oppressed classes - as he becomes in turn a notoriously 'hard landlord' this arguement seems to me particularly inappropriate.
It is frequently posited that Hindley is to blame for his bad character - but this is absurd; Hindley's absue may have embittered him, but Heathcliff starts off as a boy as a nasty piece of work with no affection for his adoptive father and an underhand habit of using Earnshaw's partiality for him to get what he wants (for instance, his threats to the young Hindley over the coveted horse in the early part of Nelly's story).
Charlotte Bronte remarks that if it were not for his mild affection for Nelly and for Hareton, Heathcliff would strike us as being a 'man's shape inhabited by demon life'. Charlotte Bronte wrote in an age less disillusoned with 'human nature' than ours, yet Heathcliff's malevolence and spite, his violence to women, his hatred of the luckless, infatuated Isabella, seem to any objective reader almost incredible and certainly disgusting.
Perhaps he was intended to be an horrific example by the author of the spiritual consequences of an inability to forgive or an insane obsession with one love object?
Perhaps too, as has been suggested, the author is teasing the reader by making Heathcliff resemble a romantic hero in his passion for 'his idol' only to show him behaving repeatedly like a demon. I remember my own disappointment that he never understands how truly appalling his treatment of his fellow human beings (assuming he is human) has been...
The relationship between Catherine and Healthcliff doesn't even seem to be particularly sexual - if she seems to find either of her two admirers physically appealing it seems to be Edgar, in so far as Victorian censorsip and the author's own detached virginal state allow this to be discernable by the reader. We are told that they kiss repeatedly and embrace violently during his last meeting with the dying Catherine. She is, of course, heavily pregnant- neither of them seem to take much notice of this visibe pregnancy, evidence of her sexual relations with Heathcliff's successful rival.
Heathcliff doesn't have any appreciation of female beauty in any woman but 'his idol' - his disgust with Isabella, a slim, blonde, blue eyed, pretty eighteen year old girl is excessive, so that Nelly rightly remarks that his wild talk about her is that of a madman - and he seems to hate the young Caherine the more for being a lovely girl; interestingly, he seems to feel no qualm about what his Catherine would have made of his abuse of her child particularly (or what she will say on their coming reunion).
I thought the most dismal scene in the book was when Heathcliff tramples and beats the unconscious Hindley and when the next day Isabella - in the early stages of pregnancy herself - rendered vicious in turn by Heathcliff's contemptuos abuse, taunts him cruelly over being responsible for Catherine's death, provoking him into throwing a knife at her.
It is worth pointing out that towards the end of her life Catherine does seem to lose her control over this psychopath - his desire for revenge outdoes his wish to keep in her favour.
However does this individual, whose acts are pitable but disgusting come to provoke such admiration as a sort of Gothic hero?
10 th October 2012 update!
I'm just adding a note of clarification some weeks into this fascinating discussion; I don't hate Heathcliff, one should disginguish between a character and her or his deeds - but I certainly think his acts are disgusting.