Paranormal Romance and Urban Fantasy Addicts discussion

I can't get a Nook as I'm in the UK, but I am getting a Kindle for Christmas:)

If you can't get Nook in the UK, Barnes and Noble is making a HUGE marketing mistake. That's a lot of extra business and money for Amazon.
I hope you love your Kindle and I hope Barnes and Noble takes not of all these missed opportunities.

AH wrote: "Tracy -Does the freezing have anything to do with the cracked screen? I got my Kobo in May and the only problems I have with it is that the page forward button is a little depressed."

I don't think so because its a pin sized crack that happened months ago. I also have the depressed button. It definitely feels more along the lines of an internal problem.

Is it not covered by the guarantee? I thought there was a one year guarantee on the reader. (Maybe different cos I'm in Canada). Have you contacted their support?

Irene wrote: "If you can't get Nook in the UK, Barnes and Noble is making a HUGE marketing mistake. That's a lot of extra business and money for Amazon.
I hope you love your Kindle and I hope Barnes and Noble ta..."

I know weird huh?? I was a bit disappointed as a lot of reading buddies of mine in the states go on about how good the library lending feature is. Also you can only buy Amazon books - but what can you do? Anyway I'm sure I'll be happy with it, it will help with the delay in release dates - I'm not the most patient person!

You can read PDFs on the Kindle and you can always convert other files to MOBI, so that shouldn't be a problem. My friend does that all the time, I don't think she's ever bought a book from Amazon yet. :)

I didn't know that - in fact what is MOBI?? A friend of mine did send me a couple of compatible books including the Curran Volumes by Ilona/Gordon Andrews which you can download from Smashwords so I'm hoping you can still download some freebies out there.

I'm guessing that's the format the Kindle books are in, since that's what my friend always converts them to. And the freebies can always be converted as well if needed, if they aren't already in PDF. So I don't see the format as a problem any more, since she got hers. :) And the converter she uses is free (and safe) as well!

Wow - thanks Rebecca, that is good news:) I like my Kindle even more now!

I know! I didn't know that either before she told me, and it was the only downside I could find when I was about to order one. I'm glad I could help! :)

AH wrote: "Is it not covered by the guarantee? I thought there was a one year guarantee on the reader. (Maybe different cos I'm in Canada). Have you contacted their support?"

I didn't contact them but at this point I'm so frustrated with it I wouldn't even want a replacement. If I had known Borders sold an extended warranty when I purchased the Kobo I would have bought it.

Chantal wrote: "Irene wrote: "If you can't get Nook in the UK, Barnes and Noble is making a HUGE marketing mistake. That's a lot of extra business and money for Amazon.
I hope you love your Kindle and I hope Barn..."

Also, Amazon allows account sharing - I have done this several times with friends and we have swapped books (which stay on your kindle even after you disconnect from their account). And Amazon has stated that soon the lending feature will be available on the Kindle as well.

I have had a Kindle for 1.5 years now and just got a Nook last week. I have had a Kindle 1 and my current Kindle is a Kindle 2 (not the brand new 3 one). But I have to say hands down the Kindle in my opinion (including the first Kindle 1) is superior in technology, platform and ease of use. Everything (and I mean everything) that you may want to do on your ereader is several extra steps (sometimes 5 or 6 extra steps) on the Nook, where as the Kindle platform makes everything very very easy and quick to use and access. Including the fact that the Kindle comes to the purchaser completely set up, all you have to do is turn it on and the Kindle "knows" your name and is ready for you to start. They both read ebooks and in terms of reading and turning pages they both do an equal job and are enjoyable in that respect. But use of dictionary, highlighting, making notes, the search function (in a book or throughout the Kindle and archived books), is all basically one step on the Kindle and very very easy to use, where as on the Nook it is several extra steps. Additionally, even my older my Kindle 2 is lighter and more pleasant to hold than the Nook. I took my Nook to my parents for Christmas where several relatives of mine already have a Kindle but were interested in the Nook. They all agreed with my opinion. That being said, I got the Nook refurbished so super cheap and because I wanted to check out library books -- that is a pretty great feature.

I love Amazon's customer service. It amazes me, I haven't yet had to use B&N customer service.

Kindle format is mobi (and prc, I think). It also reads pdf and txt, among other formats I'm told. It does not read epub.

Sony, Nook, Kobo and several other readers read epub (I own a Sony Touch). Some of them also read pdf, txt, and some other formats.

My public library loans books in epub format.

With the right software you can convert pretty much any file format to another format as long as they are not DRM encrypted. That is the problem, most new books are DRM encrypted to prevent copying. If they are then you can't copy them or convert them to another format. So that amazon kindle mobi format won't be readable on that nook and vice versa. Not only that, but you won't be able to have a copy on your computer and a copy on your portable device. You will have to rely on the organization you bought the book from to store any back up you might be entitled to.

Many people are using scripts and such to strip DRM so they can copy and convert their books. No, it's not exactly legal, but I would bet that as long as you're not distributing or sharing the books there is a fair use argument in there somewhere that would fly.

Not all books are DRM encrypted and if they are not you can convert them to whatever format you need.

My personal favorite software for reading at the computer, managing my library, syncing with my device, and converting files is Calibre. It's a free software that is updated weekly and I love it but admit that it's a very powerful piece of software that does more than I will ever need. What it does do is put everything I need (except DRM stripping) in one place. It's not friendly with DRM encrypted books.

When I buy new ebooks I don't buy them from the major players, Amazon, Borders, B&N, etc. I resent having to use their software just to download a book and being restricted to their readers. So I buy from lesser known places like books on board, diesel, and others. I have bought one book from the sony store (didn't like the experience). I don't buy from Amazon at all if I can avoid it.

I like my Sony. It's not wireless but I don't need it to be. I download using my computer and sync with the device. I got the Sony for 129.00 on sale at Borders on a Sony sale further reduced by an in-store sale. I have never installed their software.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. :)

georgie wrote: "if you get a freeware program called calibre you can convert any program to a mobi file. ..."

That's not entirely accurate. Calibre will not convert DRM encrypted books. If the original is not DRM encrypted then Calibre will convert from just about any book format into just about any format.

Calibre would not convert the books I purchased online until I stripped the DRM from them. Not only would it not convert them, but Calibre tends to want to make copies of a book when it imports it into it's own database. It'll make the copy but it won't let you read it if it's DRM encrypted. The DRM prevents copies from being used.

The DRM has to be stripped first (hacked). Now, if you're downloading books from sources that have already hacked the DRM and share the books then you wouldn't have any trouble with it (but that is illegal piracy and I do not recommend it). Try purchasing a brand new release and using Calibre and you'll see what I'm talking about.

*nods to georgie* I do understand. Although stripping DRM is a grey area that borders on infringement I still say that if you are not distributing the book, sharing it, giving it away, and it's a book that you purchased from a licensed retailer, then stripping DRM for personal ease of use could be argued as fair use.

After all, you don't buy one copy of a book for your living room and one copy for your bathroom and one copy for your bedroom and one copy for your car (as much s the publisher would like you to). DRM encrypting a book does slow down illegal file sharing (a very little bit) but it does so at a significant inconvenience to the legitimate purchaser. I honestly think that uniform file formats and alternatives to DRM will be the next big issues in the ereader/ ebook industry. It has to be.

Georgie, could you please contact me in a private message?

Georgie, Suz, I completely agree with the wish that the publishers have one format.

I bought a cybook, about 2 years ago so a lot of my books are in mobi format. Now, with the publishers pushing the epub format and many ereaders unable to support 2 format at once, I have to convert my books otherwise be unable to read some of them on my device which seems rather unreasonable.

If only the publishers bothered at all to look at the format wars of the past. Like vhs vs betamx or to bring it into the present century, blu-ray vs hd dvd. And actually bothered to arrange it so that the consumers weren't the ones inconvenienced but then I guess that's too much to ask for. sigh.

When I was looking for an ereader, I looked for a reader that could read epub and pdf. That was my sole criteria. I did not care about on board dictionaries, wi-fi, notetaking, etc. My ereader was to read books. I am also pleased to learn that my reader is supported when my local library starts with ebooks.

I have a Kobo. It is buggy, but I have a great tech support husband. I must also say that the Adobe guys have amazing tech support for Kobo. I had a problem on Christmas day and the lovely Yogesh from Adobe got back to me promptly with a fix and he even followed up to see if I was happy.

That is very cool (the response). I also had no idea we could call them.

Adobe Digital Editions is definitely a cool thing and so is checking books out of the library in ebook format. I just wish we could renew. :)

I have said this before and maybe I am wrong, it is just my opinion, but the push for 1 single format will only happen when consumers are demanding it and that is not happening right now. There are devices that people are able to read multiple formats (e.g. iPad, iPhone, Blackberry, the Droid, computers) and people do purchase from both stores selling ePub and Azw/Mobi formats. Then there are consumers that have more than one reading device, especially with the recent price drop and availability of used and refurbished ereaders. With VHS and betamax, the cost of the video players was very high, it was $1k back in the day when the war played out and renting movies was also relatively expensive (most stores required yearly membership fees! LOL what a different time). I remember this from being a young kid, but we had one of the first video players of anyone I knew and I remember my parents discussing the price extensively and kids discussing if their parents had one. So perhaps my memory is incorrect since I was so young, but the market is different now. Ereaders are much much cheaper, there are devices that allow consumers to read multiple formats from various vendors, and consumers now are used to spending $$$ on disposable items and having multiple devices that do similar things. I just don't see the market demanding a single format. What I do think, is that once Sony, Nook, Kobo and Amazon have saturated the market with ereaders only then will they consider opening up their ereaders. All of the ereaders on the market right now are closed system as are all of the books, but once they can't sell any more ereaders, vendors will start to consider: 1) selling books in formats besides just ePub or Azw (for example like fictionwise and books on board); and 2) allowing their ereaders to read ALL formats. But the market has to be saturated to motivate the big vendors to do that first.

DRM stripping is unfortunately illegal in most countries and a violation of user agreements with most vendors of books and ereaders. So be careful if that is the road you take. I know it isn't for everyone, but I had been highly tempted by DRM stripping. But buying a refurbished Nook (in addition to having my beloved Kindle 2) gave me the options I wanted. I have read on multiple forms that people who own Nooks, Kobos and Sony really wished that Amazon sold in ePub -- and see my thoughts above, I believe eventually that will happen (and I think it will happen before there is a push to 1 single format), but market saturation has to happen first. Just my thoughts.

Well, I think epub is going to become the industry standard, but must admit that Amazon has done a terrific job of slowing that process down with the kindle and the way they marketed ebooks until they agreed to agency model pricing.

But who knows? Perhaps something better than all the formats will come out tomorrow. I'm just guessing, and frankly I have to admit that my opinion is colored by a bad attitude towards Amazon on this topic - so don't take my word as being impartial at all. I know that many, many people love their kindles and I wouldn't disparage those people intentionally, but I have big issues with Amazon's former marketing policies regarding readers and ebooks. My opinion is not unbiased.

I also realize that the reasons for my issues no longer exist so it's probably time for me to get over it. I'm not ready to let that resentment go, not just yet.

Just to clarify, Adobe customer service was by email, but they were still amazing.

Suz what is the basis for your bias? I have a similar bias against B&N and its employees with their false statements about the Nook v. the Kindle (which I had read about it over and over again and was surprised to experience it in 2 different B&N stores myself, so it is obviously a direct marketing and training strategy which is beyond frustrating. basically numerous mistatements about what the Kindle can't do, complete lies). But I chose the Nook over the Kobo and Sony for my 2nd ereader. Like I said above, I do think in terms of tech and platform it is inferior to the Kindle, but I like the options having 2 gives me.

It is my understanding that Amazon is the biggest ebook vendor and ebook sales at Amazon have overtaken paper sales in many categoreis -- which is saying something for a vendor like Amazon. So I don't see that happening ... yet. But just my opinion.

ETA: I hope that didn't come across combative, I really just am interested. :) I own no stock in any of the ereader companies!

AH wrote: "Just to clarify, Adobe customer service was by email, but they were still amazing."

Thanks for the clarification! I love it when customer service is available via email or chat.

Regina wrote: "Suz what is the basis for your bias? "

Hi Regina. I didn't take your question or your own experience with one of the other monster corporate book distributors personally, but thanks for qualifying it.

Please let me preface my answer to your question with a statement to everyone - my opinion is from my perspective and my own experience. I realize it doesn't hold true for everyone and that some folks feel very strongly about their kindles. I hereby agree to respect your opinion for yourself and request that you afford me the same courtesy, even if we don't agree.

Having said that -

For more than two years I sat at my computer to read books because I could not afford a portable reader and my health makes it very difficult for me to read tree books. Arthritis in my hands often makes holding even paperbacks painful and eye damage from diabetes makes small fonts difficult to see. I watched and waited for ereaders to come down in price and waited to see what file format would emerge as a leader. I watched Amazon adopt the mobi and prc formats and realized that it had a lot to do with NOT being compatible with other readers. I read many many articles and realized that Amazon was using their ebooks as loss leaders to drive sales of their very expensive kindles. That means they were losing money on the sale of 9.99 new release ebooks (they still had to pay the publishers the agreed rate) simply so that people would say "oh look! Amazon books are so cheap! I'll buy a kindle then." Of course it worked. They WERE cornering the market and their competition couldn't compete. Because of this ebooks and ereaders were slower to grow. Other distributors were slow adopters because they couldn't compete with Amazon selling ebooks at a loss and didn't really want to try. I've read this statement from many of the publishers - that they went to Agency Model Pricing because Amazon's competitors told them they weren't going to continue in the market as things were. If the publishers hadn't insisted on Agency Model Pricing it's very possible that eventually the only place anyone could have gotten ebooks would have been Amazon, and possibly the ipad equivalent (whatever that is).

Now, that sounds very "conspiracy theory" doesn't it? But read enough industry articles that pre-date the agency model pricing upset, and then take note of the fact that portable reader prices dropped by at LEAST 50% less than a month after Amazon finally caved to the Agency Model pricing, and I say maybe not entirely theory.

I watched people who bought kindles foam at the mouth over publishers withholding ebooks when it was Amazon that wouldn't agree to new contract terms, but none of them bothered to take note of the times when Amazon removed those publishers books without any forewarning - and Amazon did it first. I've watched kindle users equally upset that they can't get their new releases for 9.99 any more, and I've been very disappointed that my fellow readers can't see beyond their own experience to consider the possibility that there were bigger issues.

Of course Amazon did capitulate, ebooks have increased in pricing about 3 bucks each (at least for Amazon - everyone else was already charging that) and the cost of readers has come down 50% or more pretty much across the board. New tablets are being released as less expensive alternatives to the ipad, more distributors are offering more devices, more ebooks, and more services because they market has opened up. The only remaining vestige of Amazon's attempt to corner (and kill) the market is that now we have popular readers that run on incompatible formats. That's the kindle legacy, for the most part.

So, the years I waited and watched and fumed because I couldn't afford a reader that would make my life easier are behind me. The things that caused that situation are no longer relevant, and I should get over it. But I don't trust Amazon, I don't like the way they spent several years charging what the market would bear instead of what was fair market value for their devices, and I don't especially want to make them my preferred book seller because of it.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Suz, those are very interesting observations. I made sure that when I bought an ereader that I would not be tied to a store. I paid $150 for my Kobo and my husband bought one of the last non wifi Kobos recently for $99. Kobo books are pretty expensive and I feel it is almost a ripoff because a hardcover book is usually a dollar more than the ebook. I do have the flexibility to use other vendors and I do.

I think the one format thing will come but until then, Calibre is a great equalizer for non DRM books.

Thanks for sharing Suz! Just a note, all the big vendors are selling closed system books as they all have DRM and are either not capable of being (legally) shared (effectively, the lend me function on amazon and B&N is not a true solution), or legally read on a cross system of devices. It is just that the Kindle is the only ereader that reads the Awz format, the other ereaders have gone to another format (ePub or PDF with DRM), but essentially all of them are closed system.

What you detail above does not bother me personally, in order to successfully corner a market it makes sense to me that that is done. And in my opinion it was Amazon that grew that market not almost killed it, but I see where you are coming from. My bad feeling is toward the publishers who are charging too much, not giving writers their fair share (for the most part) and don't see the reality of the modern market. So I guess I have no hard feelings against Apple for doing it similarly with the iPod. I am sorry to hear about your arthritis. :( I have several loved ones who suffer (including one nephew who is a child), and I know how hard it is.

Not many people realize, but with the Kindle you can buy from other vendors (there are numerous vendors who sell in multiple formats). In my opinion, it is Overdrive that needs to open up and make library books available in multiple formats.

Calibre does rock. I did not know Kobo books are expensive.

I also think that ultimately competition is a great thing for us consumers. But the reality of a device that reads multiple formats (with apps) softens the competition edge in favor of vendors and the reality if people owning multiple ereaders does the same thing.

I think that the nature of cornering a market means monopolizing and therefore essentially killing it. Free and open market always provides more opportunity for growth and new ideas and competitive pricing.

I think Amazon trying to corner the ebook/ ereader market is a prelude to them putting more energy into becoming publishers. So many are reviling the publishers right now, but give it a couple of years and the much vaunted Amazon will have a lot more authors on their payrolls than they currently have.

That's my prediction. We'll see how it goes.

I do not purchase books from any distributor that needs me to install their software to download a book. I bought one book, one time, from Sony. I choose to abstain from DRM paranoia whenever possible.

Where are you able to purchase your ebooks?

I usually get books from sources like Books On Board, Ebooks, Diesel and various other small distributors. You buy, then download. I've never had to install special software to purchase from any of them.

I also get from the library.

They don't have DRM? I didn't know that. I buy books from those vendors as well, but did not know they did not have DRM. Thanks for sharing.

They have DRM. What they don't have is software you have to install just to facilitate a download.

Suz wrote: "They have DRM. What they don't have is software you have to install just to facilitate a download."

I'm with you Suz. I see all the freebies on Amazon but I won't download their software and Sony's software, and everyone else's software. Borders allows you to download epubs without downloading software, as does allromance.com too.

Ah, I get what you are saying. I did not realize that. I love allromance.com

I didn't know Borders did that, AH. I actually bought my reader from Borders. hahah But I never installed the software, not borders software nor the Sony software. Although I already HAD the Sony software from a previous purchase - and the reader didn't recognize it. Just more BS I want to avoid.

I think the publishers are being extremely short sighted with the DRM. All the pirates know how to crack DRM with their eyes closed. The only people seriously inconvenienced by DRM are the paying customers and it's enough to make honest folks who want to pay learn to crack just for their own use.

They should have a pop up when you purchase reminding you that it's not OK to share, or put a limit on the number of copies, etc. Then have the file report an IP address when it's copied X number of times. Something like that. DRM is just stupid.

Ebooks? That's one I've never used before. I know of BooksonBoard and Diesel. Also I was quite fond of Fictionwise before the agency pricing model came into play and I used Cyberread as well but their selection of books wasn't as good as BoB or Diesel.

DRM is definitely stupid. Especially when it prevents you from being able to read a book you purchased. A few of the books I bought in mobi format are no longer available from site that I bought it from which makes trying to read this book in different devices in the future difficult unless I strip the DRM.

Keri wrote: "Ebooks? That's one I've never used before. ..."

I just checked and it's actually eReader.com but the bookmark says "eBooks for your iPhone, Blackberry..." etc., so I see ebooks on the bookmark and that's what I think.

I had a DRM issue this week. Books I had already downloaded were blocked. I had to reload and reauthorize adobe and my reader and I was able to read the files.

That is ridiculous. Very frustrating both AH what you had to do and Keri what you are talking about.

Oh, extremely ridiculous. And they can do it at any time. So suddenly books that you have legally downloaded are locked because of a software change. It makes you not want to play in their sandbox anymore.

Exactly! Which means that even though you don't want to turn to the dark side and DRM strip, sometimes it's the only way to keep access of the book.

Thanks Suz, will add that website to my list.

Keri wrote: "Exactly! Which means that even though you don't want to turn to the dark side and DRM strip, sometimes it's the only way to keep access of the book...."

That's my point with short sightedness of the publishers. Hackers will hack - it's a pride thing for them, a "climb every mountain" thing. DRM inconveniences those who don't WANT to steal or hack, which is the paying customer, and pushes them to strip too. Not a very prudent way to do business.

Nina wrote: "...I was looking at this website that allowed you to search for book titles, and see which eReader you could get it on...."

Could you share that site with us, please, Nina?

I am assuming it is www.inkmesh.com

Isn't inkmesh just a listing of freebies? I haven't had trouble finding titles for Kobo.

It definitely lists freebies, but it is also a search engine to find books (both in print and in ebook). But you can't always trust the price as listed on inkmesh or the availability, when I follow the link I often find the price slightly different or certain stores (like Diesel) no longer have the ebook format. But it is a good starting place.

I've had my sony reader Pocket edition since Feb 2010. I LOVE it!!! I haven't picked up a regular book since, and i'm not sure I ever will. I'm upgrading my Pocket Edition this Feb to the touch screen. I'm beyond excited!!!

I hit a frustration point with my new Nook. Hopefully someone here can help me! On my Kindle when I make notes or highlights there is an option to choose to see all highlights and notes for a book or across the entire kindle. I have been making notes and highlights on a library book on my Nook but I can't find a way to view all the notes/highlights of a book or across the Nook without simply paging through. Anyone?