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The Mists of Avalon (Avalon, #1)

Marion Zimmer Bradley

Start date: October 1, 2017

Finish date: December 31, 2017

Discussion: Mists of Avalon

Why we're reading this: Big Read Poll Winner - October through December 2017
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Mists of Avalon

Mists of Avalon - Book Four - The Prisoner in the Oak
By Matthew , Assistant List Master · 6 posts · 14 views

last updated Mar 03, 2018 02:49AM

Mists of Avalon - General Discussion
By Matthew , Assistant List Master · 6 posts · 20 views

last updated Jan 01, 2018 05:34AM

What Members Thought

Oct 01, 2017 Matthew rated it really liked it

Shelves: fantasy, 2017, completist-book-club, at-home-reading, library

My final book of 2017! I did not think I would finish it before the end of the year. I started it back on October 1st and it was slow going. I often found myself not reading it for days at a time. It really wasn’t capturing my interest. But, with a week to go in 2017 and about 300 or so pages left, I buckled down and finished it at around 8:15 on December 31st!

You might think that my opinion of this book will not be stellar considering it was slow going. About a week ago when I committed to fini My final book of 2017! I did not think I would finish it before the end of the year. I started it back on October 1st and it was slow going. I often found myself not reading it for days at a time. It really wasn’t capturing my interest. But, with a week to go in 2017 and about 300 or so pages left, I buckled down and finished it at around 8:15 on December 31st!

You might think that my opinion of this book will not be stellar considering it was slow going. About a week ago when I committed to finishing it before the end of the year that was where I thought it would end up, too. However, the story really came together for me and I actually quite enjoyed the storytelling. It is indeed a large book and quite a commitment, but if you love fantasy and Arthurian legend, it is worth checking out.

In some of my discussions with my book friends we were trying to figure out what Bradley was going for with this book. Having finished, I am not sure it is much clearer. Here are a couple of topics that came up frequently:

Feminism – If she was going for the feminist viewpoint, why are pretty much all the female characters unlikable and devious throughout the book? Some of them do come around, but it seems to make women generally seem either sneaky or annoying.

Christianity vs Paganism – What amazed me the most about this was that many said they did not remember the opposing religious viewpoints from the book when they read it; that seemed to be the main point of the story. Reading up on Bradley it sounds like she was a practicing Pagan, so it would make sense that she might want to bring this discussion in, but it seemed quite repetitive after a while. It does definitely come into play with the overall resolution of the plot, but I am thinking if you don’t like reading debates on religion on Facebook, you probably wouldn’t want to read 876 pages of it either.

Finally, I can say that my overall feelings about this book were skewed by what I found out about the life of the author when I was partway done with the book. I won’t go into it here, but if you Google her or check out her Wikipedia page, you will see what I am talking about.

Summary: Many will enjoy this book. It is a big commitment. Some subject matter may be controversial and preachy - but, some really good storytelling.
...more

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Jan 20, 2019 Eileen rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: conqueryourtba-2022, historical-fiction, 2022, audiobook, mythology, fantasy, 2022-ng-group-challenge, romance, retellings

This was my second reading, but the first time I read it was at least 10 years ago, probably closer to 20 years ago. I remember really liking it back then, but other than the fact that the story was about King Arthur and his making and unmaking, I didn't really remember much about it. And of course, over the years, there have been numerous adaptations both in film and in books, confusing the issue even more. What I did not remember was how much this book was about the women in the legend, Morgai This was my second reading, but the first time I read it was at least 10 years ago, probably closer to 20 years ago. I remember really liking it back then, but other than the fact that the story was about King Arthur and his making and unmaking, I didn't really remember much about it. And of course, over the years, there have been numerous adaptations both in film and in books, confusing the issue even more. What I did not remember was how much this book was about the women in the legend, Morgaine and Gwenhwyfar, of course, but also Igraine, Viviane, Morgause, Nimue, Niniane, and Raven. I also didn't realize just how much this book was about religion vs. spirituality, and in particular, Christianity vs Paganism. This is an incredibly detailed and well-researched book, and it really made me think. I actually spent the majority of the book angry and frustrated with Gwenhwyfar, but eventually realized she was just a woman who bought into the crap that the priests were feeding her and that had she had a different upbringing (and had ended up wedding Lancelot in the first place rather than Arthur), things may have been very different, not just for her, but for everyone else around her.

Ultimately, this story was about these women's struggle to survive in a male-dominated world. It was about their limited choices and about key moments that could have led to different results if they had made a different choice.

I also found this book to be an exploration of love in many forms--the love between a man and woman, of course, the love of a mother for a child (both by blood or by fostering/adoption), the love between best friends (male or female), the love between a mentor and a mentee, the love between a King and his knight(s)--and how it can turn to resentment or hate with circumstances.

I read and listened to this book at the same time and Davina Porter was pretty much perfect. She does a great job with both male and female voices and I just love how the different accents roll off her tongue. While I took my time with this story, I found it to be a great story that could be read in parts and loved letting events sit in my mind while I went about my day. I hate letting my knowledge of the author color my opinion of a book like this, but knowing what came out about her after her death does make me look at some of the themes in this book in a new light. (If you don't know about this, you can google her and it's on the Wikipedia page. ) Despite these reservations, this story still stands out for me as one of the great stories in the Arthurian legend. ...more

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Jan 01, 2015 Phil J rated it it was ok

What is this book? By reputation, I expected it to be rabidly feminist and anti-Christian, but it was really neither. I did find it exhausting, however, so here are some unstructured thoughts:

* Some people compare this book to Atlas Shrugged because of its size and philosophical drive. That's an unhelpful comparison. Bradley's skill is far beyond Rand's, which gives her story a lot more subtlety and ambiguity. A lot of what I have to say about this book is debatable, whereas Atlas Shrugged is as What is this book? By reputation, I expected it to be rabidly feminist and anti-Christian, but it was really neither. I did find it exhausting, however, so here are some unstructured thoughts:

* Some people compare this book to Atlas Shrugged because of its size and philosophical drive. That's an unhelpful comparison. Bradley's skill is far beyond Rand's, which gives her story a lot more subtlety and ambiguity. A lot of what I have to say about this book is debatable, whereas Atlas Shrugged is as plain as a pikestaff.

* This book might be a little feminist from the standpoint that it emphasizes the women's point of view, but it does not say anything critical about men in general, and the women it emphasizes are very flawed. In fact, some people suggest that the male characters are more admirable than the female characters. I would suggest that the male characters are less developed than the female characters, and therefore Bradley doesn't peel back their layers the same way she does for the women.

* This book is overshadowed by the recent allegations against the author of rape, child molesting, and other serious sexual crimes. You can see some of the attitudes that justified those crimes. The attitude on rape is a bit weird. Gwen's reaction to being raped seems unusual. Also, there is a deep hostility toward motherhood in this book. I expected a "feminist" book to discuss the power of birth, but in this book birth is an ugly necessity at best. In all, I can see how these opinions on rape and motherhood would affect Bradley's treatment of her daughter.

* There are no strong female-female relationships in this book. There is no strong mother/daughter relationship and the only strong sister/peer relationship I can think of is Raven and Morgaine. The only strong marriage in the book is Uther and Igraine. On the other hand, there are many strong male relationships among the knights of the round table or between the Merlins and the ladies of the lake. It's weird that a "feminist" book has female characters who are seemingly incapable of positive relationships.

* Bradley sets a gritty, realistic tone for most of the book, yet she adds in a lot of love at first sight, which seemed really jarring to me.

On religion in Mists of Avalon:
There are many viewpoints represented.
1. Avalon- The Avalon viewpoint is represented positively for much of the book. It's basically a Wiccan cult. There is a leader who is the most attuned to "the will of the Goddess" and tells everybody else what that will happens to be (usually the leader's political advancement). The initiates are kept in isolation and fasting, and periodically have drug rituals. This is mostly portrayed positively, although there are hints that it's not working. I doubt modern Wiccans would approve of the Avalon system.
2. Organized Christianity- This was weird and frustrating. At no point does anyone criticize Jesus Himself. Instead, they criticize medieval Christian practices. We get long passages about whether women should be allowed to play music in public and other irrelevancies. I'm not sure what Bradley was trying to do there. It reads like the worst straw man argument ever written. Is this supposed to reflect at all on contemporary Christianity?
3. Doubt- Two characters (Lancelet and Morgause) express doubt in a supreme being. They both change their minds near the end of the book.
4. Omnism- I may be misapplying this term, but partway through the book, the male characters start arguing that all gods are the same and you might as well worship one as another. This viewpoint is largely confirmed at in the last portion of the book when symbols from different religions merge.
5. Humanism- Near the end of the book, numerous characters realize "The Grail is within me," or "The magic of Avalon is within me," and they reject the concept of a God or Goddess who exists outside their own perceptions. This made me want to barf. If this is where Bradley was heading, she could've got there in less than 900 pages. It's hardly an advanced concept.

I did not enjoy this book. I think people would enjoy it if they are bookish and somewhere between the ages of 13 and 21. It will help if they're mad at their religious leaders while they read it. Personally, there were no ideas in this book that I haven't seen covered more persuasively elsewhere. ...more

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