Bionic Jean’s Comments (group member since Jul 27, 2022)

Bionic Jean’s comments from the Works of Thomas Hardy group.

Thanks Werner.

Great comments, which have really helped me to appreciate this poem more deeply. Thank you everyone (and especially John for choosing it!)

I'm now convinced that Thomas Hardy deliberately chose the word "fall" for its double meaning, and because he was English, the top-level meaning will have been as Bridget says, the "Fall of Man" in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

Of course! The poems are not archived, but moved to our proper "Poetry" folder after 2 weeks. This is our resource. Each poem is in the "currently reading" folder when first posted, merely to give them prominence.

Comments are always welcome on any of our dozens of poem threads, and each poem can be easily accessed by our alphabetical list.

Another new one for me! Thanks Werner; it's now linked to our list.

Don't miss this poem everyone - especially if you like narrative ones.

Oh thanks for this Bridget!

At first I thought it was the former poem, but now I'm sure it was The First Countess of Wessex which this reminded me of, because of the real-life inspiration ("based in part on the real-life story of the heiress of Melbury House.")

I'm so pleased you have resolved this "niggle" in my mind 🙂- Bravo!

You're welcome Werner! I'm looking forward to others' reactions to this narrative poem.

This is an interesting poem; thanks Werner. Perhaps because of the period the poem is set, it seems to deliberately use archaic language and modes of speech. Thank you too for the information.

The theme is familiar from something else we read - perhaps someone can recall it, please? It escapes me, except that it was based on a real historical event Thomas Hardy read concerning a noblewoman involved with a servant 🤔

I'll "translate" some of the place names in order. As Connie said, we have come across some of them in the stories and novels we have read:

"West Highway to far Exon'bry" - Exonbury is Exeter

"Weatherbury" is Puddletown
Gabriel Oak in Far From the Madding Crowd lived in Weatherbury just as his real-life counterpart shepherd friend lived in Puddletown

"Casterbridge" is Dorchester
The Mayor of Casterbridge

"hill-fortress of Eggar" is Eggardon Hill
a prehistoric hillfort

"Pummerie square" is Poundbury Camp
a historic site near Dorchester, i.e. another ancient earthwork. Also in The Mayor of Casterbridge

"Nine-Pillared Cromlech" - a cromlech is a prehistoric tomb or stone circle that had nine upright stones as supports for a large capstone. So this again is a prehistoric megalithic structure. However it is very specific and quite rare - I think Thomas Hardy may have "lifted" this one from another part of the West country!

"Bride-streams, The Axe, and the Otter.. the Exe" - all rivers. I'm in the Bride Valley in my caravan right now.

(Please let me know if I missed any ... I was scrolling.)

Linking to our list now.

I think your reasoning about the choice of word makes perfect sense, Bridget!

I haven't got the preface, but from what you are all saying I would have thought he would title it "Apologia". He had taught himself Greek, and after all we use this word in common English parlance.

You're right, it's not a simple poem to decipher, although it is very elegant. I think Thomas Hardy is exploring one of his favourite themes here: the fleeting nature of joy and the enduring presence of sorrow. We recognise this in both Tess of the D’Urbervilles (view spoiler)[the tragic fate of a young woman in a harsh society (hide spoiler)] and The Mayor of Casterbridge, where he examines (view spoiler)[the consequences of a man's past mistakes (hide spoiler)].

I do like the simple and evocative imagery. The "moving sun-shapes" and "sparkles" of the first stanza contrast with the "blankness" and "bleeding" of the second. But it is sad that at 82 years old, Thomas Hardy was so pessimistic. I also wonder if the title was partly self-reflective, and referring to his own existence as part of nature.

John wrote: "He thought it would be his last book because he was 82 years old. But he did go on to publish two more collections in the six years he had remaining ..."

That is amazing isn't it? Thanks for this one, John, and the information. It's now linked to our list.

Yes.

There must be a reason for him choosing a non-English term, when "Autumn" is always used. I like your ideas about the extended meaning, John and Greg, and just don't know!

This poem is much deeper than it first appears.

I assumed it meant played their viols (i.e. violins) since we know Hardy's family did, and the poem has just mentioned

"We went to play a tune
To the lonely manor-lady"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viol

I personally think it's the literal meaning and the players had carried their fiddles, (and didn't know the other meaning) but do you think he intended a pun?

Ooo I love this poem, thanks John. It makes me shiver in my bones ...

As you and Connie have both said, its the choice of words, concentrating on movement and sound, which make it so powerful. Amazing imagery.

I'm puzzled though, because of the title. We never call this season "Fall" in England; it's always "Autumn". So why did he choose to use an American term? Is it because it too evokes movement?

(If it helps I can check the first edition, as I have it at home - one of my very few 1st ed. Hardys)

Linking now.

As you'll have noticed everyone, John has extended his slot for the next two weeks, which is enormously helpful! Thanks so much John - you deserve a medal! 🏅

Werner - that's absolutely right that the sense of "homing" here is "going home". Not so much dialect as far as I know, but derived from homing pigeons, which are still much beloved by English pigeon-fanciers. The distances they can travel is astonishing. Here's wiki on their history and use by humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homing_...
Popular in many countries but perhaps not as common in the USA?

And we know how much Thomas Hardy loved to use bird imagery in his poems 🙂

John wrote: "Jean, if this thread can be deleted, I would be more than happy to select another poem today for discussion"

No it's fine thanks John! As Bridget says, it's worth keeping - and subsequently we have had extra comments from different people - and new observations from the first thread. So I've added an extra link to our list.

I really love how everyone has brought their own experiences to this poem. How little Thomas Hardy would have thought that his close observation of a small part of Dorset, in a specific season, would resonate so much around the world so may years later, that we can all relate it to our own lives.