Kalliope’s Comments (group member since Aug 28, 2018)

Kalliope’s comments from the Ovid's Metamorphoses and Further Metamorphoses group.

Peter wrote: "The ornithologist in me feels obligated to add a comment for the last story in Book XI. Thetis transfigures the falling Aesacus into a bird called mergus (XI, 753) in the Latin text, merganser in E..."

I love these explanations, Peter.

Beautiful birds.

Desirae wrote: "In Book Eleven, guilt and responsibility are based upon the actions of both mortal and divine realms; each side has a way to express or stubbornly declare their case to the world.

Orpheus’s contin..."

Thank you for these summaries, Desirae.. they can come in very handy and they obviously mean a fair amount of work.

Elena wrote: "Philip Glass gives Orpheus a happy ending, and even creates melodic music for the story.... "Based on Cocteau’s fascinating retelling of the Orpheus myth, Orphée, the first opera of Philip Glass’ C..."

My edition says that the happy ending of Orpheus, for even though he dies a violent death he is reunited with Eurydice in the Underworld, was Ovid's invention.

In my notes it suggests that the heart of the Met is the premise that Love loves Love, but that this also becomes Love loses Love, when Venus is shown not powerful enough to prevent Adonis's death.

As for the flower anemone, it comes from the Greek 'animus' which means wind... And the wind easily tears off this flower/love.

I have finished this book and hope to read 11 & 12 this week and catch up with you all.

In the last episode in this Book, in the birth of Adonis, I was struck by the explicit reference to art when describing the beauty of the baby, even Envy would have admired its beauty 'like that of the naked Cupids artists paint'. So, here art is greater than nature (which is divine anyway..).

I found this very striking.

Peter wrote: "Once again I am enthralled by an inner monologue of a female character, this time Atalanta, who contemplates whether to compete with Hippomenes which will mean death for the young man. Mind and emo..."

Peter,

Thank you for the many images on Venus and Adonis. I have just read that section.. and I was surprised with the way the story unfolds because Titian's painting is so engrained in me that I expected Venus saying good bye and trying to hold back Adonis when he is about to go hunting, since she knows the outcome...

Instead, Ovid's text shows her flying off and having to face the surprise later on.




Titian. Venus & Adonis. 1554. Prado Museum.

Elena wrote: "Ovid apparently knew something about beauty: "Somewhere between 1 BC and 8 AD, Ovid wrote Medicamina Faciei Femineae, known variously as The Art of Beauty or—my personal preference—Cosmetics for th..."

Elena, one can tell you are an archivist. Thank you.

I have been looking to see if other images depict the second part of the episode - their punishment and metamorphosis into lions.. but I have only found engravings.

Lions were still difficult animals for the painters at the time... usually not very convincing.

Here is another version by a less known artist.




Nicolas Colomber. Atalanta and Hippomenes, ca. 1680. Liechtenstein Museum.

Jim wrote: "Once again, we have stories within stories:

Guido Reni's take on Ovid telling the story of Orpheus who tells the story of Venus who tells the story of Atalanta. And the painting itself is almost ..."

I have just finished the story of Atalanta's race and of Adonis's death.

Thank you, Jim, for posting Guido Reni's painting. Its date is 1618.

There are two versions of it. One in the Prado - it hangs in the major gallery, and recently I saw the one in Capodimonte. It is believed that the one in Madrid is the earlier and better one.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Welcome to Book 9. For readers who have been looking for more unity in the books, the concentration on Hercules and his extended family here may make this part feel more pulled together.

I especi..."

RC,

I have just finished this book. When I have written my review I will read yours... It was OK... Ovid is so much more interesting.

Elena wrote: "I've been googling Isis worship in Rome, and it was apparently widespread even if considered foreign and exotic. Isis in particular protected mothers and infants so the role protecting Telethusa an..."

I have just been reading about Pompeii Pompeii: The Life of a Roman Town, and Beard gives a closer account of the Isis temple... and it seems it was part of the inspiration for Mozart's Magic Flute.

Jim wrote: "I'm intrigued that it seems to have taken all of us so long (even those who are on Book XIII) to open a discussion of the topic of beauty. Somehow, in the midst of all the stories, all the discussi..."

What a pity that Scarlet is only on Book I, for she already detected that theme.

On the history of Beauty - and the way it was conceived in classical times there is the famous History of Beauty, which I have read. And no, the idea of beauty did not emerge in the Romantic times. In Ovid's time it was very much based on proportions (taken from those of the human figure).

I have not yet read its companion, On Ugliness

Roman Clodia wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Ivory then as the material of artifice."

Good catch! I hadn't thought of that."

Thank you, RC, but I did not catch anything... It was in the Notes of my book.

Hopefully tomorrow I will finish this Book. A rich one which may require rereading.

Scarlet wrote: "Beautiful and image full work, of artistic quality and a high literary value I'm rereading very slowly Ovide's Metamorphoes , have a dop in Matin occasionlly, still on Book 1 which istrikes me as f..."

Scarlet, I like your idea on beauty being fatalistic...

My book also discusses the structure of the Pygmalion story, wihchi similar to the arrangement of the trees also has a symmetrical pattern.

It has two parts of 27 lines each and Venus stands in the centre. The 'before' segment presents P's contempt for women while the 'after' shows his passion and ability to transform the ivory into warm flesh.

Then various authors find a parallel between Orpheus and Pygmalion. Both are able, through their art, to cross boundaries between matter and living consciousness - one with music (trees and animals and stones) and the other with plasticity.

Elena wrote: "I wonder why Pygmalion made his sculpture out of ivory instead of more durable marble...I think marble works for human size and ancient ivory cult figures are usually miniatures...

Wikipedia for w..."

Elena, the notes in my edition have a long discussion on the choice of ivory.

Basically, it is the medium that is half way between the cold (marble) from the warm (human flesh). Furthermore, ivory had strong associations with deception (and a reference to Pelops' ivory shoulder is made). Ivory then as the material of artifice.

Peter wrote: "According to Wikimedia its title is "The Death of Hyacinthus", painted by Merry-Joseph Blondel in the 1st half of the 19th century. Very impressive, in particular Hyacinthus' body."

Sorry, Peter.

You also found it but with a different title... As I am catching up with the comments, I reply as I read them.

Jim wrote: "How appropriate that our discussions this month (June being not only the month of love and marriage but having been designated LGBTD month) encompass not only Orpheus but also Ganymede and the Hyac..."

Jim,

It is by

Merry-Joseph Blondel. Apollon et Hyacinthe. ca 1830.

On the painter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merry-J...

On the trees in the Cyparissus/cypress episode.

My notes go deeper into the list of trees, the choices and the order in which they are mentioned.

There are 25 trees and 2 kinds of vine.

The way they are ordered is seen as reflecting the state of mind of grieving Orpheus. The first and last trees -- Chaonian oak and cypress-- correspond to tragic deaths (the latter told by Ovid himself - the Chaos story is not: he was accidentally killed by his brother).

The second and the next-to-last, the poplars (Heliades) and the umbrella pine are also related. The former are the daughters of Helios changed into amber-producing poplars due to their lamentation of their brother Phaeton (which we have seen) while the latter corresponds to Attis who in her morning for Cybele was also changed.

The trees are also divided into two groups and subgroups according to shape...

Anyway, the complex description of the formation makes one wonder about how much Ovid thought about his choices and correspondences and links... and all of this in hexameters.