Michael’s Comments (group member since Jun 10, 2010)

Michael’s comments from the J.R.R. Tolkien group.

I think that there are a lot of correspondences between the two, obviously flowing from Tolkien to Donaldson: rings as the central magical artefact; Nazgûl: Ravers; orcs: ur-viles; Sauron: Lord Foul, etc.

Unlike Brookes, though, I think Donaldson takes those tropes and does seeks to do something different with them. He uses his narrative to explore Covenant's psychology through allegory, which (rather cleverly) Covenant himself ponders upon. I found the Gnostic elements interesting, but some of the other Christian symbolism a bit too much for my taste, although that is an impression I've carried with me from reading the first two Chronicles when they were originally published and, possibly, I'd have a different view now.

Hmm, I'd sort of dismissed Covenant as a teenage fad I'd had, but thinking about the books a bit more deeply perhaps I wrote them off a little too harshly.

I love the feeling the Silmarillion gives of being a collection of epic tales, folklore and religion, garnered from disparate sources and brought together to preserve them. This incomplete feel is, for me, part of the book's charm, enhancing my enjoyment rather than detracting from it.

As Lucinda says, above, that's pretty much what Bilbo has, in fact, done within the story. It also echoes the work of Elias Lönnrot, the mythographer who put together the epic poem Kalevala: The Land of the Heroes from the traditional story-poems he collected on his trips into rural Finland. As is fairly well known, Lönnrot's epic and the Finnish language were influences on Tolkien's legendarium.

Wishing your dad well, Anne Marie.

Hi Grace - your enthusiasm for Tolkien is infectious! Now I want to go and read about Middle-earth!

I don't have The Art of The Lord of the Rings, but it sounds good. Hmmm, I've got J.R.R.Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator on in my TBR pile though....

I can't disagree with your assessment, Simon, as you like what you like and that's that. However, The Hobbit films are, in my assessment, poor (I think I may have just disagreed with you!). Then again, one of my favourite films is Big Trouble in Little China, so what do I know? :-D

Hello, Winter :-) Welcome to the group. Do you have a favourite Tolkien book?

Hi, Joe

Welcome to Middle-earth :-)

The Hobbit is an excellent introduction to Tolkien's world, but it's just the beginning...

I'd recommend reading it a couple of times before watching the films so that you have you're own vision of Tolkien's world firmly fixed before it's overly influenced by the Hollywood version.

Please do let us know what you think of The Hobbit once you've finished it.

For anybody not aware (amongst this group, probably not very many!), Kullervo comes from the Finnish national epic, Kalevala: The Land of the Heroes by Elias Lönnrot. Tolkien greatly admired this book and Kullervo's story was a big influence on the story of Túrin, which we now have in The Children of Húrin.

The Silmarillion is heavily influenced by the cosmogeny of the Kalevala and Tolkien's names for Eru Iluvatar and many of the Valar derive from Finnish. Similarly, the languages he invented for the Elves have many Finnish roots.

I've got my copy of The Story of Kullervo reserved at my local bookshop and am really looking forward to this addition to the Tolkiens' published works (plural, as it's been a family enterprise for some while now :-) )

Good choice :-)

Is there any indication on the WETA site as to who owns the trademark? It could be that they put the tm symbol on for notification purposes, but that they do not hold the trademark themselves, rather being the licensee of the trademark holder, the Tolkien estate.

I'm guessing, so would be interested to know if you get any further information.

One of our two Group Reads for April-June 2013

Wm. Scott wrote: "I had it in my mind that Beowulf's original author was unknown. How do we he was a Christian? ..."

Grendal is described as being descended from Cain, the fratricidal son of Adam and Eve - there are other examples of Christian elements, but I'm too comfortable on the sofa to go upstairs and look up the examples :-)

They could have written around their write around if they'd wanted to! ;-)

I was gutted that Tom wasn't in the movie adaptations, but I can understand why he wasn't. The films have to have a narrative drive and that means sticking to the core plot - getting the Ring to Mount Doom. Tom doesn't serve that end - intentionally so - and therefore would have been superfluous. Pity they didn't stick him in the extended DVD edition, though.

Andy, we had a poll about the subject of how many people in the Group came to Tolkien as a result of the films: http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/68...

The result is interesting, and there are some further discussions there.

If only Gene Kelly and Audrey Hepburn were alive they could make it into a musical.

I should mention A Middle-Earth Album: Paintings by Joan Wyatt Inspired by Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings by Joan Wyatt. Most of her paintings are excellent and capture the atmosphere of the subjects well, although some do, admittedly, leave something to be desired in terms of execution. Her Balrog, for example, looks rather as if painted by a schoolchild. However, I love her portrayal of Tom Bombadil and Goldberry. Frodo on Amon Hen is another favourite.

The poll winner for our April-June 2013 Group Read is

The Legend of Sigurd & Gudrún

There was a close runner-up in:
Roverandom
so I've scheduled that, too, as an alternative (or additional!) read for those who would prefer something a bit lighter.

I will set up discussion folders for the Group Reads nearer the start time.

I did have a poster for the BBC radio adaptation of the LotR, which I sent away for on a free offer from the Radio Times when the programme was first released - I might still have it somewhere, but I'm not sure if it's survived the years of house moves.



Music: Bo Hansson's Music Inspired by Lord of the Rings.

That's OK Christine, the Read runs until March :-)