Michael’s Comments (group member since Jun 10, 2010)

Michael’s comments from the J.R.R. Tolkien group.

I think the word "fellowship" is key to the books. No one person could have defeated the evil of Sauron (and however you want to interpret that in the real world), but the strength of people loving and working together can overcome and redeem.

Codex wrote: "The films have ruined LotR for my wife forever. She has read LotR till Lothlorien and then gave up, saying she could not get the stupid film imagery out of her mind.

As for my daughter, she has wa..."

I guess that if you come to the films first, their imagery will be a touchstone when reading the books. It's a shame you're wife's enjoyment of the books had been affected by the films. Funnily enough, I thought the Lórien scenes in the film comported quite well with those I'd imagined for myself from Tolkien's writing.

Elentarri wrote: "I've always preferred John Howe's Tolkien paintings to Lee's. Most of Lee's paintings are always so washed out and bland - it might not matter if you are depicting scenery but a book like this focu..."

Lee is so iconic a Tolkien illustrator that it feels almost blasphemous to criticise him, and yet I do sometimes find his work too lacking in vitality. When he's good, though, he's very good. Another of his colour illustrations in the Lay extract beautifully captures Tolkien's verse portrait of a haggard Beren appearing amongst the crows and ravens in a dank forest. Though, so pale is Beren that at first I mistook it for an illustration of the shade of the traitor, Gorlim.

The extract from the Lay wasn't as hefty as I'd initially thought - only 250 lines, quickly read both because of the ease of the verse form, and because Tolkien captures the urgency of his story so well.

Well, now - I've finished the first telling of the story, The Tale of Tinúviel, and greatly enjoyed it. SPOILERS hereafter 😊 (ignoring my own recommendation to use tags!)

It reads more like a fairytale than the Silmarillion version I'm most familiar with, which makes it quite charming. Lots of folklore motifs - the lovers forbidden to meet by the woman's father; the impossible quest to win her hand; her imprisonment and escape, and many more.

I particularly life the character of Tevildo, Prince of Cats and, while missing him and his folk from the later versions, can understand why this, as one of the most fairytale-esque elements was dropped.

I've resisted the temptation to look at all of Alan Lee's illustrations, reserving the (hoped for) pleasure of seeing them as the story unfolds. The first illustration graces the prefatory material of the first tale and, actually, I was rather disappointed. I understand that Lee's style is often ethereal with a subdued colour palette, and a painting of Tinúviel dancing in a moonlit forest glade would seem to suit that style perfectly, but it's so washed out, and Tinúviel so lost in the landscape, that it took me a while to make out what it was he'd depicted. I think, perhaps, this particular painting would benefit from a larger-sized reproduction (2018 Middle-earth calendar?). Thankfully, the next painting of Tinúviel in the court of Tevildo is a clear rendition, and one more to my liking - well, that's all personal and each will have their own view, but those were my initial impressions.

The next section is a hefty chunk of poetry from The Lay of Leithian - onwards!

This was one of my favourite quizzes to write, focussing as it does on Tolien's rather neglected mundane creatures rather than elves, dwarves and orcses. I'm pleased to hear that your frustration at the questions didn't didn't dampen your enjoyment too much :-)

I've been reading Tolkien for 40-odd years, so that helps me set my Middle-earth quizzes, but so does The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth by Robert Foster ;-) There's people in our group who know waaaayy more than me about Professor Tolkien and the Middle-earth legendarium, though :-)

Hyarrowen wrote: "When I picked it up, one of the bookshop assistants said, "I really must read this myself!" "Hands off!" I growled, clutching my copy to me."

Ha, Ha! "My precious!" :-D

Some of the group have already read the book (very fast work!), and it would be nice to hear from them if they'd like to share their views and impressions.

I'm going to read the book in a couple of weeks, in all probability, due to other commitments - though I still had to rush out and buy it as soon as it came into stock! Nevertheless, I have read Christopher Tolkien's introduction, in which he makes some interesting comments.

Firstly, there is no new material in this book but, as Christopher Tolkien says, this is the first time all the versions of the Beren and Lúthien story have been gathered together in one place, so it does make it easier to appreciate the way J.R.R. developed his ideas.

Out of the deeply interconnected narrative of The Silmarillion, J.R.R. told his publisher that three stories could be abstracted without the need for the reader to know the whole history of the First and Second Ages of Middle-earth. We had The Children of Húrin ten years ago, now Beren and Luthien. So it seems in accordance with his father's wish (or, at least, his conception) that the story should be presented to us as a separate volume. Whether that's enough of a reason to spend hard-earned money on words you may already have is for each of us to decide (though if you're reading this, that decision has probably already been made in the affirmative).

The third story Professor Tolkien mentioned was The Fall of Gondolin. Christopher Tolkien makes the poignant observation that, being in his ninety-third year, Beren and Luthien is likely to be the last book upon which he works. I suspect, however, that with the appetite for Tolkien's legendarium growing stronger, another editor will be found for The Fall of Gondolin in due course.

Christopher kindly shares a memory of his father telling him stories from the Silmarillion, and specifically of Beren and Lúthien, and if, sadly, these are to be the last of his words that we read, how fitting that he leaves us with such a warm and comforting image, of the father and son enjoying time together in love and fellowship.

The newly-published Beren and Lúthien by J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Christopher Tolkien, and illustrated by Alan Lee, is our Group Read for June to August 2017.

There's a bit of an overlap with our Lord of the Rings Group Read, but you can't have too much Tolkien!

Spoilers: Please discuss the book freely, but do clearly mark posts with spoilers, or better yet, use spoiler tags ☺

I know you can get it quicker via internet retailers, but there's nothing quite like picking it up from a shop ☺

Slight panic when I got to my bookseller as the assistant couldn't initially find it, but it turned out to be put away "extra safely".

While I was there, I accidentally bought The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide by Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond. Oops!

Today is publication day!!

Off to the bookshop to see if my copy has arrived - I know I could phone to check, but...

The link at the end is for a fundraiser which has now met its target to publish an academic work on The Inklings and their interest in King Arthur and The Matter of Britain.

The chapter headings indicate a fascinating read.

Thanks to John D. Rateliff's always informative blog for bringing this to my attention :-)

https://www.gofundme.com/fund-king-ar...

Hi Ellinor

I'm glad to hear how much you're enjoying the books. The LoTR films were, I think, fantastic, but still a pale reflection of the experience of being immersed in Middle-earth in Professor Tolkien's own words.

I hope you enjoy being in our Fellowship :-)

I found this article about Tolkien's and C.S. Lewis's views on Walt Disney's Snow White film, and his animated films generally, rather interesting. I tend to agree with their views, though I do, nevertheless, love The Jungle Book.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/...

However many you wish, Lindsay. We have three months for this group read, and the discussion thread will stay open beyond that. Jump in wherever you feel comfortable :-)

If you feel you want to 'shadow' (no pun intended!) a few fellow travellers so that you feel you're at the same point as others, let us know where you're up to and how fast you want to take the pace and we can see if somebody can match up with you.

As an alternative, I guess I could get hardcore and set up seperate discussion threads per chapter! How would you feel about that? As I'm running the idea around in my head, I'm liking it :-)

Please post further comments on the new discussion thread, where I've also posted a link to this thread so that your existing comments aren't 'lost'.

Thanks for you enthusiasm and participation :-)

Earlier parts of this discussion were held on this thread.

I'm sorry to hear about your headache, Annette. I hope you're feeling more comfortable soon.

It looks like you're just (re-)starting your Middle-earth journey :-) The next section in the Old Forest with Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, then on to the Barrow Downs, is one of my favourites in the whole work. I don't have time to 'visit' there myself at the moment, but maybe I could allow myself to read The Adventures of Tom Bombadil soon!

Do you have a particularly favourite part of LoTR?

Good going, Annette :-)

How far into LoTR are you?

Here's a link to the ISFDB (Internet Speculative Fiction Database) page for The Hobbit. It has an extensive listing of editions and states, where known, who the cover and interior artist is. Whilst it is a user-maintained database, every edit is moderated and there are references as to where the edition information has sourced.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cg...

Thanks, Anne Marie.

Four Tolkien books in my challenge, again, this year.