Robbie’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2008)

Robbie’s comments from the Books I Want To Talk About group.

Meghan, I loved this book, too. I actually had to change my rating because, though I thought it was a bit dry at times, after reading it I wanted to talk to everybody about what I read!

History is an area in which my knowledge is greatly lacking, so I really enjoyed hearing all that went into creating this amazing major event that had never much affected me before. As a transplanted Pittsburgher, I felt pride in the whole Ferris Wheel story. Can you imagine the size of those cars? It must have been just an amazing experience to ride in one.

I'm more of a Law & Order/Crossing Jordan person (probably has to do with which channel has better reception--we don't have cable), but I agree reading about the murders, and later the technique used in that era to solve the mystery, was just fascinating.

It actually is pretty common for someone to take comfort from someone else during a time of loss such as this. I think some movie comedies have been based on this premise. Also, Tom may have been abstaining from sex for quite some time during Agnes' pregnancy. I may have found Tom's behavior distasteful, but not necessarily unbelievable.

Okay, my initial, superficial responses to these discussion questions.

1. "Tom had been offered the post of builder to the Exeter castellan, repairing and improving the city's fortifications. It would have been a lifetime job, barring accidents. But Tom had turned it down, for he wanted to build another cathedral" (p. 23). Do you think Tom should have taken the position? Have you ever passed up a sure thing in pursuit of your life's passion?

Given that he had a family (he did then, didn't he?) and his choice made him often unable to keep them fed, I think he should have taken the job. Looked at from this angle, one could compare him to the father in "The Glass Castle."

In today's world, one could almost always defer their life's passion for later. The life expectancy was shorter then, though, so it was a tougher, more either/or decision.

Already in my life, I've made each kind of decision--passed up, or left, a sure thing in pursuit of a passion, as well as chosen a safe thing in order to provide more stability for my family.

2. Compare and contrast Agnes and Ellen. Is one woman stronger than the other? How did their different styles of motherhood affect their children? Which do you think is a better complement for Tom?

At the end of this section, I'm really annoyed with Tom! Again, taken in the context of the day, Agnes was a better match for Tom. Ellen was more like the mistress, satisfying his needs of the flesh. Ellen could have been more of a complement if Tom had not been trying so hard to save face.

I was still struggling to get into the book at the beginning. How did Agnes' parenting style contribute to awful Alfred? I don't remember.

3. Why does Prior Philip agree to take in the abandoned baby? Are his reasons altruistic, or selfish—given the fact that his own family was taken from him? How is the order like a family? What needs does it fulfill, and which ones are still lacking in the brotherhood?

Taking in the baby may have been Philip's attempt to "pay it forward."

Too early for deep thought, I invite others to initiate discussion for other parts of this question.

4. What are your first impressions of Waleran Bigod? Is he a devout man at heart, or does he have something up his sleeve? Is Philip his ally or his pawn?

I felt he was genuine up until the part where we found out the (bishop was it) was already dead; I think that was only the *first* thing he had up his sleeve. I await more. Pawn.

5. William acts disrespectful toward women—berating Aliena and offering to buy Ellen. But after he successfully invades Earl Bartholomew's castle, he seeks the approval of his mother. "William's heart was warmed by her praise, and he grinned foolishly" (p. 208). Why does William respect his mother, but no other woman?

All children crave their mother's approval, at least initially. William's mother withheld hers, leaving him always longing for it and cherishing it because it's so rare. He displaces his anger toward her to other women, which is why he disrespects them.

Thanks, Sarah. I think I remember getting out my Bible when I read this book, too. I wanted to better understand the different perspective presented in the book.

I often think of The Joy Luck Club when I'm watching Gilmore Girls. One thing that was illustrated in The Joy Luck Club was the way moms and daughters see things from different perspectives. Frequently each is trying to please the other but feels like they are failing in the eyes of the other. That dynamic is often present with Lorelai and her mother.

Meghan:
I hadn't thought about comparing this to Snow Flower and the Secret Fan, I read the books so far apart, but I definitely agree with you.

I definitely wouldn't say I hate it! I truly have been busy. I think it's more that I haven't been in so much of a reading mode lately.

Although, there certainly is no shortage of other books on my end-table to start!

It's taking me a while to get through this. I'm not even through part one. It's hard for me to tell if it's just because I've been so busy, or because I can't get into the story.

I really like the kind that deals with historic events, so that I learn more about them by getting sucked into an interesting story and character development. Somehow, I never took much interest in history, and so I have large gaps in my knowledge. For example, it was in reading The Birth of Venus that I discovered the Bonfire of the Vanities wasn't just some 80's movie I never saw! (insert embarrassed smiley here). Other historical fiction books I liked were The Killer Angels and Year of Wonders.

Chris:
I haven't read them, but added them to my to-read shelf. I've been kind of getting into historical fiction lately, so thought I might enjoy them. I suppose we could debate about whether or not these would count as "historical," but I'm not suggesting we should.

Chris:
Did you see the books recommended earlier in this thread?

I think this is a book I gave to someone else because it was so good, so unfortunately I can't review in order to converse much with you about it. I enjoy reading your insights, though.

Duh! Even better, a quote from the author herself.

Question: Was there really a red tent in ancient times?

"I did not find any evidence that women in this period of history in this place (ancient Iraq/Israel) used a menstrual tent. However, menstrual tents and huts are a common feature in pre-modern cultures around the world, from native Americans, to Africans. The rendering of what happened inside that tent is entirely my own creation. "

http://www.anitadiamant.com/theredten...

Okay, I was probably wrong in my previous statement. Here's an exerpt from a piece written by Rabbi J. Avram Rothman

"Even the "red tent" in the story, a place to which women were cast off during their menstruation cycle and men never ventured near, has no basis in Jewish belief or history. It says more for today's questions about equality of the sexes, than in biblical times, since the red tent never existed. Perhaps the author invented it to figuratively create a "women's club." But nevertheless, she created it."

www.aish.com/societyWork/arts/The_Red...

Without doing any research whatsoever, I'm going to say that the author probably *did* do research and there is some historical evidence suggesting its existence. If I decide to look further into it, I'll let you know. You could also ask any student of the old testament (seminary student) what they know.

Chris,
As I recall, there is a family tree in the book. I'm no Biblical scholar myself, and I'm pretty sure I could follow everything.

SPOILERS******





I re-read the scene of the mother's visit. I was amazed at Sister John's ultimate ability to empathize and forgive. It was a great example of "re-framing" the situation and seeing a different perspective. There was a part of me that felt a little sorry for the mother. Who doesn't sometimes wish they could just start over again when they feel they've made a terrible mistake?

I just saw a teenager in the office the other day who had recently had an abortion, and she was feeling fairly guilty about it. The population by my office is mostly Catholic, so I was expecting her guilt to have a religious basis, but it didn't. She chose not to carry the pregnancy to term because the father was involved in drugs and such, she had moved on to a new boyfriend, and because she is not done with high school. Still, she felt like she had lost this opportunity to have a baby that would be hers and would love her, etcetera. I explained to her that, unfortunately, with unplanned pregnancies it often feels like there are no good options, and there is room to feel guilty no matter what choice one makes. I bring this up because I think it's a similar situation to Sister John's mother's, and I'll bet my patient wishes she could have a do-over, too.


I should probably read the whole book again, to get more emotionally in tune with that plot-line. Do you think there was some kind of symbolism in the seal? Or, do you think the choice of a seal pin was random? I'm terrible with symbolism.

I remember taking a child welfare class in college about a hundred years ago and being surprised that, at least at that time, children did best if there was any way they could stay with at least one parent. Probably in part because breaking that attachment is just too much of a trauma.

Sera:

I have a similar arrangement in my home. It's actually a challenge for both of us. I don't typically see myself as a "workaholic," whereas I would say my husband is. From an economic standpoint, however, it just makes more sense for me to work. We not only get some flack from others, but also from ourselves. Whether nature or nurture, I tend to feel guilty when I'm not doing more of the typical mommy things--if I miss events, Dr's. appts, etc. And my husband just doesn't seem to feel whole without "working." I maintain that keeping up a home is as much or more work than a paying job.

MOst of our friends have similar situations, at least in the sense that the dads are very active in the care of the children. We have pretty open-minded friends who made more traditional choices, too, but they are very liberal and open.
One thing that is interesting is that women seem to have more of a choice in this area, but there is still more of a stigma when a man stays home. And other men don't seem to be shy about making comments about them being "kept" or otherwise taking stabs at their masculinity.

*******SPOILERS********






I'll have to review the book again to comment on the mother's visit.

I wasn't so surprised that [main character] could view her own experience as a gift, either. What I was commenting on was her *community* also viewing it as a gift. As I said, in some cultures, seizures, mental illness etc. are viewed as a sign of demon possession.

As a physician, I immediately felt that she should have the tumor removed, especially since her symptoms seemed to be escalating. I'm used to people choosing not to have certain procedures, and I feel completely comfortable with that, as long as they understand the possible consequences/outcomes of any decision. (Often I end up at odds with family over this.) It was new to me, however, to have someone say that they might not want a treatment, because the symptoms make her feel closer to God. That was definitely food for thought for me. The outcome of this story was great--an example of God having a plan, I suppose. [Main character] was tempted to use her will to continue her special connection to God, then ultimately yielding to God's will, in a sense.

Another good book to read is Random Family for a perspective on another culture right here in the US.