carol. ’s Comments (group member since Aug 31, 2016)

carol. ’s comments from the The Long Way... To a Common Orbit flash group group.

Heh, you make me laugh with "I think I will have to get used to the narration stopping for a page or two of explanation every time a new race or concept is introduced."

It's interesting; I agree, most of the crew comes off as 'nicey-nice' but within their own limits. Hmm, are you saying your impression is that it comes from a more 'this is the best social norm' perspective and less honoring what people are? My impression of the person in the market was that Sissix accepted her difference and provided her with some appropriate emotional-cultural affection. I agree there was judging about those who didn't support the person. I mean, I get it in all respects. My cousin's son is fairly autistic and in his early 20s and apparently he was complaining to her that he just wants somebody important that isn't family in his life (he does a theater for special needs people). I mean, just because he is autistic doesn't mean he doesn't have emotional needs at times, although they may happen/be expressed/be met in a different way than most are used to. I thought of this scene after she posted about it on FB.

True too on the flow of the story. I did read it fairly non-stop, but it didn't hurt to put it down when I had to go to bed. :)

I adore you all. Back in the morning.

Oh, right! I forgot that scene with Sissix.I think your assessment there is spot-on. I think Chambers was also trying to make the point that even cultures that are supposed to be open, touchy/feeling, community-minded etc. also can ostracize members of the community for small reasons. Kind of one of those more preachy moments again, but it does add to Sissix' character.

I was just thinking about Corbin's inability to reach out to his shipmates and a couple of moments when it seemed like he would have wanted to. I was thinking in terms of his focus on safety/protection (his 'orientation' tour to Rosemary) and his obsessive focus on the algae to the detriment/exclusion of other issues reminded me of a tech-savy person with deficits relating.

Athena wrote: "I like Corbin evolving from Algae Guy Jackass to bad-with-people-but-trying, though it felt like a planned reveal rather than a character's evolution. Perhaps she didn't trust the readers enough? A bolder author might have fleshed him as an utterly unlikeable dickhead, but given us his flashes of feeling for the crew that he couldn't process. A touchpoint for his evolution would've made saving Ohan more powerful too."

Agree. I think this might be what Beth was getting at too. There were a couple moments in the book where I thought she could have done more with his difficulty with people... maybe thrown in a little autism/Asperger research and tried to bring in the perspective more fully. It's a fascinating concept and great inadvertent foil, right? How do you deal with someone in small confines who doesn't really have interpersonal skills but who is great at their job? Because I could totally end up being that person :)

Amelia--love the thought you put into it. It's been hard to find a lot of alien sci-fi that dives into culture more than war issues so I don't feel I have a lot to compare it too, but I agree, I would have loved more science.

I had read about the Kickstarter, but not about losing her job. Wow, what a hardship. I can see where that might limit some of the ability to do massive re-writes, like addressing the flow issues you mention. I guess I was being charitable with 'episodic'--you describe it much more accurately. It had a serial feel to it, but you are right, then she took time to draw back the camera occasionally.

So, Athena--I'm thinking I should just link to your commentary in my review ;)

Absolutely agree on cheerful, decent people being a good thing in modern fantasy/sci-fi/fiction. I'm a little tired of our deeply flawed heroes or anti-heroes.

I did enjoy the characters and the little adventures they had, but I think it takes a very skilled writer to pull off the overarching plot while working through the mini-adventures. Agree on Corbin feeling like a planned reveal without much build for the change.

Ha! Laughed at your Sissix. Maybe she smells through her tongue. I'm reading Being a Dog: Following the Dog Into a World of Smell and have found it really more about smell/humans than dogs. Still super interesting. Arguably one of the most primitive senses, with a neural pathway that goes straight from receptor to brain, no crossover, then on to the thalmus for sharing and processing. She also talks about receptor sites, the ones in the front of the nose and ones that are more retro/vestibular in the back. So I'm thinking lizard-tongue. But Chambers may have needed to study a little more biology ;)

Mikhail wrote: "And this is all modern day. Now add multi-species diplomacy and the vastness of space. I'm *certain* that black markets will exist for all things.

I believe the black market will be around, I was more idly speculating on the concept of an artificial body in this world. Do we have robots? Somehow, when I read, I thought it would be completely human physiologically, but realized during this discussion that I wasn't sure. Either way, seems like expensive/exclusive tech that would make it easier to track. (Is it body-switching/brain downloading ala Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon ?)

Mikhail wrote: "I thought it worked reasonably well. It hews fairly close to Sci-Fi Standard (WORMHOLES!), but it's a more detailed than usual examination of that trope, so it works."

Good to know. I don't read much that goes into the physics of it.

Mikhail... interesting thoughts. I thought of Rosemary's position perhaps as in parallel to Donald Trump's children, or Chelsea Clinton--not that anything was extremely life-ending, but the political and social ramifications/isolation were too much for her to deal with. And she is quite young. I can easily see it as being a big deal for a young person and not so big of a deal for people who are more worldly. I agree, Chambers could have made it a cornerstone of the plot. I'll be interested to see what you think later when they reach Toremi space.

Haha... well, you would know about freshman philosophy majors, right? ;)

Interesting thoughts, Beth. I hadn't read much about fish as stock protein, but that totally makes sense as well.

I thought most of the time Sissix felt extremely human, which may have been the point. They go into her differences more later.

With the being told not to like someone--do you mean Corbin/the algae guy (I'm so terrible with names)?

I was a little uncomfortable with some of the Jenks/Lovey dynamic, just because she seemed so human. I believed it more later in the book. I understand the cultures not wanting to go there and making it so that people can't be confused between 'real' people and 'artificial' people. The cultural/legal sanctions would need to be horrific if they have the capability but didn't use it. The question then becomes, how do they get a useable body? How can government not be tracking those things if it is such an issue?

I liked the tunnel too. If by 'explainy,' did you mean Kizzy? Because I thought her logic and explanation to be so convoluted that it didn't help me at all. I chalked it down to a character scene for her and Rosemary. I mean, breakfast cereal? That made no sense. ;)

Completely agree, Amelia. I think this may be where Chambers shows a little writing inexperience--maybe an editor could have helped her figure out different choices.

Throughout the book it had the feel of episodic adventure, with the over-riding plot being crew/financial survival. The actual completion (or not) of the tunnel was a little anti-climactic. Not sure what should have been done differently, expect maybe more... more sense of coping with the journey? More detail from the diplomats? More cage detail? More Toremi Ka detail?

In the finale, the scene with Rosemary space-walking just seemed... odd. Sort of re-affirming connection and the magic of space, I suppose, but a bumpy path getting there. Kind of like an elderly roller-coaster that has one big fast drop and no follow-up.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really enjoyed the book--one of the few I've read lately with a minimum of interrupting.

I could have, Amelia. I feel like what Chambers was doing all along is getting to a concept of community and humanity, whatever that may mean. I was starting to buy into this concept of philosophical disagreement backed up by violence (now that I think about it, isn't that kind of the essence of all war-violence? 'you think different so I will kill you into thinking like me?'). Then we go into the diplomatic function, jump around a lot, and then deal with the crew's consequences, but without really knowing what it meant to that particular tribe's Revered Mother.

Ha!

Socks! Match My Hat! Step on sweet toast!

Later Sector General is a great deal like this. I just read a three volume of the first three... much less streamlined/cohesive. But I do really love them. I periodically search one down and add it to the library--just because I don't want it to disappear.

Ha! I hear you on Dr. Chef. I stopped to try and picture him in my mind as well. I was going with a caterpillar shaped thing, which probably isn't right at all. I thought Sissix was well done, a sense of being different but still relatable.

Kind of like Kitty Jay, but overall more likeable. All of Kitty's characters have some serious flaws, particularly at first.

Did you ever read the Sector General series? Really reminds me of that. They started as story installments in a weekly/monthly. This is kind of like that with little mini adventures or solving an issue. Agree characterization is a strength more than plotting.

You silly human. Jeanette Weeks?

I understand what you are saying about Kizzy, as I think occasionally felt she was just too much. Of all the characters, she feels the most Firefly-like, like a character derived from the character. But when they explained the song, it was awesome.

Hmm, very interesting. Didn't really think about that at all. It is funny, I run into that in healthcare. Occasionally I'll say "I'm sorry" in sympathy/empathy, and a couple of occasions people say, "it's not your fault." :)

I was a little jarred out because of transitions. We see Toum leave the gathering and then take off as readers. Then as readers we go back to our main view from the Wayfarer's general perspective and are blindsided along with them when their ship is suddenly damaged.

Narratively, this didn't work for me. I wanted to know what Toum did. I sort of thought I understood what he was thinking; something about bringing harmony to the group (eventually) through exercising the strongest opinion and taking the action that would help that. But why he wouldn't just fire on the Revered Mother then, as his culture expects?

I'm not sure why we bothered with Toum's perspective at all, now that I think about it, except as perhaps a suspense cheat? If we are going to stay with the Wayfarer perspective and not understand but just try and deal with the consequences, fair enough. But then let's leave the omnipotent view out of it. As we'll see in the next chapters, I'm not sure we ever do get clarity. And truly, does it matter? The ship crew has to deal with the consequences to Lovey and that is the devastating part.

No, I see the 'bugs' as lobster as well. I think she mentions that they are like crab or something. Actually, it is a really clever space idea, isn't it? No messy methane byproducts. Cheap, easy, compact protein.

Going nonlinear is quite funny. Only works if you have linear people ;)

Is there anything better than a seedy galactic spaceport? One of my favorite sci-fi settings. Definitely made me laugh. I enjoyed how Pepper pushed back at Jenks and encouraged him to be thoughtful.