Ana’s Comments (group member since Jan 08, 2016)

Ana’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

@Jasmine (fully hoping you keep sharing your thoughts openly, not trying to bring you down!)

For me female empowerment and feminism must be an exclusively female movement.

I respect where you're coming from, but this is a mistake, in my humble opinion. Feminism may turn into an all-girls club, but Monday morning you're still going to work with male specimens of the human kind. Interacting with them on oh so many levels. Still being one or several of these: a daughter to a father, a wife to a husband, a sister to a brother and so on. Those things you are not a part of, they don't have an influence on you and you are ignorant about them. I want men in my society to be knowledgeable, outspoken and vocal about gender equality. For that, they have to be part of the feminist movement.

Now, how they are part of it, this is where I would include the small print of the contract. ;)

You said...

-Stop trying to speak on female issues when we can speak for ourselves.
-Recognize the toxicity of microaggressions
-Don't mansplain

Definitely. In this I agree fully. In doing so, there are many times in which they'll have to sit at the back row, as they should. But you can also raise your hand, voice your questions and speak from the back row. Also, feminism leads to other topics where men can speak from their own perspective. They are all linked to a fairly important point -toxic masculinity and the deep, scarring wounds it has inflicted on our societies, further aggravating gender inequality.

My head is starting to bobble so I shall continue tomorrow. But these are the thoughts at the top of my mind. :)

@Florian

=>There is one thing I do not really understand, why a person who belongs to a gender should accept the guilt and shame of others?

See, I think Jasmine had a point here, at least to a certain extent. It also applies to race. I am white, so in that sense I do have a great deal of privilege. I did not choose to have it! I did not choose to be born white. Nobody has ever tried to make me feel bad because of my whiteness and the privilege attached to it. However, nobody ever made me think about it, and I certainly never needed to do it forced by any kind of circumstances. Partially because of feminism, this has started to change for me in the last couple of years. I now try to think about race and privilege, and as soon as I started, well, it was almost everywhere.
I am part of a mainstream that has, sadly, historically denied rights to their fellow citizens of colour. Worldwide. A mainstream that has oppressed, killed, suppressed, silenced, taken stuff away from others. Consistently. Do I feel terrible? No, I hate racism and try my best to reeducate myself. But I know there are racist undertones in my thought that have been planted there by society and history -by my privilege. It is now my responsibility not to forget that, so that I can truly challenge myself and the world around me. And, I must do so respectfully, being careful not to take the front row seat that belongs to POC.

Male feminists, and truly, men overall, should behave similarly if they're truly willing to get to understand gender equality. So I believe, at least. :)

Florian wrote: "To what a friend told me, in his country (Indonesia) there is no he/she, everyone is neutral, he also told me than it is not rare to ask more information about the gender in a discussion."

Oh! Surprised to hear that, since according to Wikipedia...

Islam is the most adhered religion in Indonesia, with 87.2% of Indonesian population identifying themselves as Muslim in 2010 estimate.

Cool to know, however. :)

Ah, don't worry, Meerder. I'll just have to try again! :) You know those days when you can barely muster your own mother tongue? Apparently I was going through one. :)

If I may suggest something, it would be to keep it easy and accesible at the beginning. After all, he is your relative, he's also of a certain generation, which as you already noted makes it harder, and you wanna convince him slowly but surely, so that he'll find the need to open his mind by himself, and not 'brainwashed' by anyone else. :) Best of luck!

MeerderWörter wrote: "I was listening to this radio show the day before yesterday:
https://soundcloud.com/native-america...

Listen to it - it will teach you a lot.

So many say..."

Would love to find a transcription of the audio! My laptop doesn't really have a great audio and my brain seems to be on one of those days when even English will get tricky. O//O

Also, that thread. What I love most about bigots is that so very few of them will really give you a run for your intellectual money. They're so easy to debunk.

Ana Paula wrote: "Pam wrote: "We have never seen a matriarchy last for generations. Women have been in power, but save for a few remote villages in India and islands in the Pacific, we haven't had generational matri..."

Oh, yeah, the Mosuo. :) Too bad that tourism and, overall, the challenge of modern times and the need for survival has greatly changed things over there and put their whole culture in risk. :(

Emma wrote: "To me (admittedly not a religious person), I thought it felt like she was schizophrenic, especially as the voice seems to have its own mind of its own. But I think it was open to interpretation and analysis depending on the different person reading it."

Hmmm. I am religious but I also thought that Allie's voice had strong hints of a mental health problem -one that might have been there from the beginning but that would have undoubtedly been exacerbated by her sad, abuse-filled childhood. Then again, I am a very lapsed Catholic that will sometimes only make sense of stuff when applying a Deist logic, so maybe I'm not the kind of religious person to ask. ;)

I mean, Allie hears the voice. Quite literally. That's not a very normal thing to me. It did make me think, however, of our own personal thinking which may be referred to, in a symbolic way, as a voice of sorts. In that sense, I would definitely relate as I definitely "dialogue" with myself in my own head, as we all do. To me, it feels like an imposed duality of the self -allow me to explain myself! ;) There's an, uh, outer Ana, who is subject to interaction with her surroundings and therefore a somewhat...different version, a demo, if you will, of inner Ana. Inner Ana is the full version of myself, that will have thoughts and opinions that guide outer Ana in the world and ultimately colour her view of it, even if sometimes there has to be a balance.

I've sometimes, prior to reading The Power, anyway, thought like this of this question of the self. In that sense, it does feel like a voice sometimes, if you will. But still, a symbolic one. I agree that it is most likely open to interpretation.

This is an interesting question! I'm still right about in the middle of the book so I gotta see how things keep developing in the plot, but I can already see the point from which this question arised.

Hmmmm. Well, first of all, yes to all of you who have pointed that women are so equal to men, we too can be opressing and/or heartless monsters...and excel at it, for that matter. ;) Please allow me to add Erzsébet Báthory to the list -look her up, the record of her accomplishments is somewhat unreliable but she still was no angel, believe me.

I...don't know what would happen in a sustained, global matriarchal system, to be honest. I think its results from one region of the world to another may vary depending on many factors. If we want this mental exercise to be helpful, we have to start from our current societies, not from the result of a world under centuries of that new system. As such, I believe it might lead to some pretty beautiful things...perhaps from those who would have been the most unprivileged yet also aware of it and resolute to bring upon a change. But I feel like there would also be others who would still seek to remain cozy in their privilege and not help much or bring any significant change.

I know I'm not being very eloquent, sorry. Kinda sluggish after the Christmas feast. :) I'm just thinking of, say, the recent turn of the events in Alabama, US. How the results showed that white women hadn't really done much for the cause, in comparison to WOC. Gender is a huge aspect of inequality, but there are others. Interestingly enough, they are linked too, in ways that I am still learning to decipher, but even so, they stand as challenges of their own.

Merry Christmas to all of you to celebrate! :)

To those of you who observe a different holiday, may it be equally full of happiness.To those of you who don't, may it be a jolly few days of being immersed in this festive atmosphere. Also, as someone who is living abroad, an extra hug for all of you who are far away from your loved ones.

And last but not least, to those who are hurting right now, even though it's Christmas and pain seems to be even bigger of a burden and an alienating factor, since it seems almost mandatory that we all be happy and smiley...hang in there, y'all. You are still loved, you are still important, and you can do this, :)

To all, may we have a happy 2018.

Hello, Imaane!

...And a very warm welcome to Our Shared Shelf! May I suggest that you check our bookshelf here? Please feel free to add new suggestions to it, as long as they don't fall into self-promotion of any sort. :)
We suggest our new members give a quick read to our FAQ's here.

For the sake of management I am closing and archiving this thread. Thanks for your understanding and happy reading! :)

Closed and archived

Latanya (CraftyScribbles) wrote: "The only people pulling this transracial nonsense have been white. If any person of color claimed to be white, and not their actual race, they would, not only be laughed off the block, but deemed mentally ill.

It's the privilege of wanting to claim someone's culture without the pain behind it.

Exactly. It's one of those things that only us white people can get away with.

I am passionate about Japanese culture, literature and language. I therefore do my best to learn more about them and would love to get the chance to live there for a while. I do not identify as Japanese, nor has the thought ever crossed my mind. Doesn't take any of my appreciation of the culture away.

Keith wrote: "Given that Ann and I are going to age disgracefully, (if we want to wear purple, we will) I want the power to ensure our mobility scooters never need to be re-charged and the power to banish anybod..."

This was so cute. <3 Seriously.

Wear the freaking rainbow all at once if you wanna.

Hmmmm! It's gonna be fun to read all of your answers. Let's get them coming...

Selfish power: Instantly learning all languages in the world. It would indeed lose some of that fun that comes from learning a foreign language, but on the other hand, I cannot even begin to imagine the joy of becoming a living Babel fish...and the potential!

Responsible power: Being able to easily award microcredits / loans to women in developing countries, so that they can feel empowered to truly own at least a little part of their fate by creating their own business.

Rafa wrote: "If you are still not willing to make a change and don't want this group to discuss anti-feminist books, then it's absolutely fine. You can go ahead and keep reading the books and do nothing..... "

It's not that you can't discuss an anti-feminist book here, although it'd have to be structured so that such discussion had sense. It's that having so, so many important feminist books to read, with our club covering but a small fraction in the official list because it's not humanly possible to read them all, I highly doubt we're gonna make room for an official reading on the antipodes of our thought. As I said before -there are plenty of ways to be aware of the 'other' side arguments so as to rebate them by reading committed feminist literature - both fiction and academic.

Melli, please rest assured that you are doing just fine. :) I have, as I'm sure you do, plenty of stuff going on in my life right now (work, study, other commitments, a hint of a social life even, wow, haha). So sometimes I have time to read and sometimes, frankly, I don't. Including our books, although they usually go first whenever I do find that precious half an hour to relax with a cup of tea. ;) Just read when you can/want, at your own pace. This is no race. In fact, I would say that given the nature of our readings, it wouldn't be advisable to rush through the books. :)

Also, mind if we close this thread? As some of us gave you our opinion (ending: we're all snails haha), I think it's best for management' sake. :) Happy reading!

Hello! :)

It's a nice discussion here, so don't worry, I'm not coming with the moderating whip. :)

Rafa, I got your point and while I don't think there's anything inherentially wrong with reading books that could be classified as anti-feminist, I think Graciela covered quite eloquently the reason why it wouldn't really make sense to have them be part of our official reading list. For what is worth, I would also add -each time we add a book to our official shelves, we are undoubtedly helping its sales. :) Think of it, we would be indirectly supporting authors whose arguments and beliefs stand somewhere in the opposite side of the spectrum from where we are. In some particular cases, it could be particularly problematic as feminism is deeply related to other social justice causes. Only this reason already would make me wary of including them in our list.

Now I'm not saying that you don't read these books as an additional source of information to fully understand the picture, and I see where this thread could come in handy (besides, as I said it's not hurting anyone, so rest assured, it's staying here!) However...is it really the most useful way to read anti-feminist books? Hey, in some cases perhaps so -to those who mentioned Hitler's Mein Kampf, well historians surely needed to read it, along many other documents from that period, to actually be able to compose a full portrayal of the Third Reich. Still, I think you could get much more, while still reading about the other side, while digging deeper in feminist literature and other feminist-friendly books.

I'll put an example -racism. Well, you could try and look for certain material. Or you could try and start looking for stuff on colonialism, imperialism and the such and soon enough, you will start to connect the dots in ways that I, at least, know I never had. Reading on colonialism will actually lead you to a lot of issues -sexual violence, supression of communities where genders went well beyond the binary concept, economy, frontiers, cultural appropiation, orientalism, and so on. And there's a whole lot of books and academic material to dive in. :)

Just my two cents. However, at the right point and degree of maturity as readers -yes, I would like to think that we all can pick certain books without being at risk of brainwash.

Aaaaand I already have it ready and waiting for me in my Kindle. :) This should be an interesting read. :)

Marina wrote: "https://medium.com/@serpent849/what-i... I wrote what more or less happened to be my first blog post. ironically it references Caitlin Moran, eve..."

Even if you're not a blogger per se, which is actually a term that I wouldn't particularly strive to attain for myself (unfairly so, perhaps!), I think it's valuable to make your own voice heard, Marina! I also appreciate that you included the perspective of AFAB expectant parents and their right to equally choose what they believe it's best for them, as well as the fact that them not identifying as female does not clash with their pregnancy, at least not in the pejorative / repulsed reaction it tends to get from a conservative standpoint. I must say that when I was younger I used to not really understand this last aspect. It was mainly due to my lack of knowledge about transgenderism, but I wouldn't really understand why these men would want to experience pregnancy, as I'd imagine this would only add to their dislike of their body. My take on the whole issue was certainly in need of some learning and reflection! We do very little good to complex issues when, in reflecting about them, we fail to acknowledge this complexity by lacking knowledge and facts to support our arguments. While I sure still have a lot of learning to do, I am happy to say that I have since read more and will continue to do so in order to better grasp those realities that are not my own.

Back to the strict topic of abortion, and although I am late to the party, one million times yes to Indigo's post. I just don't really get why the insistence on fixed gender identities, choices regarding childrearing, etc. For Pete's sake, I wish I knew for sure what I'll be doing the next year and I don't. Why on earth do I need to swallow this whole identity deal, among other hugely important issues, right at the beginning of my life? At any other point, actually? The right moment to bear a child might not be this one, but what about ten years later? Five years earlier? Let people be.

Some pretty valuable food for thought arising from the recent controversy due to Omer Fast' Chinatown installation at New York's James Cohan Gallery. You can read about said installation, including the protests,here.

Once you've finished, I have this very interesting follow-up by Margaret Leehere.

I'd love to know your thoughts in the subject. Because of some of my professional and personal interests, orientalism has been on my mind a bit recently, while feminism has helped to make me aware of issues such as colonialism and cultural co-opting. These, altogether, enabled me to see issues in this art exhibition, while years ago I'd probably have shrugged off the whole thing. While not directly related to feminism, I thought many of you here would enjoy this article. Credit on the discovery to a friend of mine that shared it on her feed! :D

Robert wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Do we have any psychologists in the group who could comment on this?"

I am a psychologist who practices in the US and am happy to comment on the sex/gender distinction. However, I als..."

Thanks a lot, Robert! Now posts like these are my favourite to read here. May I also say that I really enjoyed your word of caution on expertise and the actual scope of it when we step out of our actual field? I feel like almost all of us have most likely failed to realize this when turning to a certain book / expert / product / etc. for help. You made several great points which help clarify this topic for those of us who aren't fully acquainted to it.