Katelyn’s Comments (group member since Jan 07, 2016)

Katelyn’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Awesome, Astrid! Thanks!

Is there a special listing you need to subscribe to in order to be alerted to deals on feminist books specifically? I get a general list of cheap books in an email everyday but I've not seen feminist titles in there very often (if ever, actually).

Moved to Intersectionality folder

I felt the same way about it. I thought of this thread immediately when I read that, as I've been following along and I was like "here is a perfect example of what everyone has been saying in the OSS thread on Ableism!" I like it when we can connect these general discussions to the books and authors we read (even though in this case, it is an unfortunate connection).

Jason wrote: ""crossing the street so that women don't have to be paranoid." Okay. So segregating the sidewalks (because all men are dangerous animals) is the way to go. What next? We don't need yellow stars. Me..."

Just stepping in to please request that we keep this thread civil, in advance of having to deescalate. It's clear that, whether or not you agree with the suggestion, it is meant as a reminder to respect the feelings of the people around you and how actions that seem insignificant to one person may seem very significant to another. No one is calling for any of the things you wrote in your post, so please try to dial down the ire so that we can continue this polite conversation.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I wanted to draw your attention to a link I posted in another thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It's a relatively recent interview with bell hooks. It doesn't deal specifically with All About Love: New Visions, so go ahead and read it whether you've read this month's book yet or not!

In the interview (which I thought was good overall despite some parts with which I took issue), she categorizes white supremacist and patriarchal biases in individuals as mental illness. I was curious, given this conversation, what you all might think about that! Feel free to respond here or in that thread :)

Hi Leslie, unfortunately we have a strict policy against self-promotion and have to close and archive this topic.

First, I was inspired by all of you to find supplemental materials for us to read. Especially because so many have had trouble finding the book or have a long wait before they can begin reading (I've not received my book yet, either!), I hope that this might provide an opportunity for everyone to get involved in conversation whether or not they've started this month's read! I encourage all of you to create topics with any other supplemental reading material or videos you can find, as it may provide more avenues for involvement :) (For example, someone might start a thread for the New School lectures that have been brought up in a few different conversations)

I want to share this link with all of you to an interview that bell hooks gave with George Yancey for The New York Times Opinionator column. It deals mostly with race, but is still of course relevant to OSS's focus on feminism, plus it may be informative for all of us when we do eventually get to read All About Love; New Visions.

Here is the link: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/...

I'd love to hear all of your thoughts! I enjoyed reading it and will share my thoughts later on.

There have been a couple of threads explicitly dedicated to genital mutilation, but I think it's been discussed in other threads as well.

Female genital mutilation: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Circumcision: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Leo wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "I have a number of thoughts on this.

When HeForShe was first launched, I did my due diligence and thought critically about its implications and whatnot.

What it comes down to, for..."

Of course it involves politics and economics... it's a feminist campaign. In what way does inviting men to the conversation equate to asking oppressors to release the chains?

It seems that we disagree on a fundamental level. I don't think working together reinforces the patriarchy, I think it ideologically defies it. Unfortunately, there is no patriarchy headquarters that all the feminists can go burn down... Until we all work on this together, revolution is not even tangible. Unless you're advocating anarchy, which I personally don't think is the answer, but I know plenty of people who do. They would oppose HeForShe for that reason.

I have a number of thoughts on this.

When HeForShe was first launched, I did my due diligence and thought critically about its implications and whatnot.

What it comes down to, for me at least, is that the patriarchy does not only negatively affect women. It devalues femininity, which disproportionately affects women. But men suffer as well, and one of the things that HeForShe does really well is reveal some of the ways that the devaluation of the feminine causes problems for society as a whole.

Now, I agree with the sentiment that men shouldn't need to feel that they benefit for feminism in order to take part. And frankly, men who feel that way don't seem to be interested regardless of the facts that show how they do stand to benefit. So I kind of think that argument is weak, as well.

HeForShe invites men to the conversation and this is good for two obvious reasons (and more, but I'm going with these two for now): 1. Patriarchy (and the greater system of oppression of which patriarchy is only on part) discourages empathy, casting it as a weakness that prevents individuals from getting ahead. HeForShe does the opposite, encouraging men to empathize with women. 2. As stated above, patriarchy harms men as well, so they need to be a part of the conversation. A dominant part? No, because that will probably end up reinforcing patriarchy. But extending an invitation does not equate to handing over the reins.

As long as HeForShe is not compromising its goals in order to attract men, I don't really understand where the accusations of "pandering" come from. It is simply a campaign that helps men to understand that feminism is not man hating, which is still a stereotype that has not been fully put to rest. It is necessary to disseminate that message.

Furthermore, the arguments in the article generally seem to come from a "western" stand point. There are people all over the world who have hardly had an opportunity to engage with the ideas of feminism, and HeForShe provides an opportunity to do so. Men who are already anti-feminist probably won't be swayed by HeForShe, and the UN and Emma likely know that. But if it can reach people who are undecided, or simply have not had the opportunity to consider these issues, then it will hopefully have a positive impact.

Finally, I'll just say that my one reservation about it is the potential to continue reinforcement of the gender binary. However, as a tool for inviting men to the conversation, which is an admirable goal, I think it does its job. And given that (cis)men tend to be the most resistant to feminism, out of all gender identifications, targeting them in the name of the campaign is necessary. I'd be interested in hearing what someone who identifies as non-binary thinks about this?

Please reserve this space only for recommendations on how to find the book, as this will make it easier for people to navigate through the posts to find a method that is best for them. Posts that do not include recommendations of how to get the book will be removed. Thanks!

(and please check previous posts so that we don't repeat the same thing! Thanks!)

These are definitely issues we are trying to balance. Thus far, only two months (and change) into this club, we're still working on even the most basic kinds of organization to make this group accessible and comfortable for members to navigate.

For starters, Ana (moderator, Spanish) spent most of this week writing a transcription of the video of Emma's interview with Gloria Steinem, and she will then be translating it into Spanish. Once the English transcription is publicly available, members can feel free to translate into other languages.

So I just want to assure you that we are listening and considering all that is being brought up, and hope that we can implement as many suggestions as we can to make this group inclusive. It just might take some time!

Charlie wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "Elisa wrote: "Too bad it isn't available as audio book. I'd love to read this!! But due to illness I can't read long texts and can only 'read' my books in audio format. I send an e-..."

We've been brainstorming about doing this sort of thing, but we need to make sure about the legality of it! We will of course make an announcement if we manage to figure something out :)


If you've found any legal copies of the book, or methods of obtaining it, please post them on the thread here: Book Availability

Ana is a SUPERSTAR!!!!

We've created a thread in hopes of helping people find copies of the book: Book Availability

Please post any LEGAL links or methods of attaining copies in that thread.

In the interest of organization, we are going to remove related threads, so that all of the resources can be found in one place, making it easier for members to navigate.

Thanks everyone!

Locked and Archived

We've created a thread in hopes of helping people find copies of the book: Book Availability

Please post any LEGAL links or methods of attaining copies in that thread.

In the interest of organization, we are going to remove related threads, so that all of the resources can be found in one place, making it easier for members to navigate.

Thanks everyone!

Locked and Archived

Hi Harlee, in the interest of organization, we've created a thread for people to post links to legal copies or methods of attaining the book: Book Availability

Locked and Archived

We've noticed a lot of topics popping up with people eager to find copies of bell hooks's All About Love: New Visions. Given that availability has indeed come up as an issue with this month's selection, we're creating this thread to help people find their own copies of the book. We'll be closing the other topics that have been created, in the interest of organization.

Please only post LEGAL methods of obtaining copies of the book here. Any illegal links will be removed.

Also, don't forget about our Pay It Forward efforts. While you may have to wait a bit longer to get a copy of the book, many members are generously willing to send copies around the world. And don't forget, discussion of each month's book is ongoing well past the month itself, so don't worry about missing out! You're welcome to come share your thoughts even months down the line :)

We hope this will help people to get their hands on a copy of this month's selection. Please use this thread exclusively for links and suggestions for getting the book. In the interest of organization and ease of navigating the thread, any other comments will be removed!

Also, I think the books mentioned above are already on the book suggestions bookshelf, but please check for them, and add them if not, by following the directions here: How to Suggest a Book

Given the size and continued growth of this group, we need to be extra strict with the rules. So I don't think we'll be changing the settings.

If you remove your cursor from the comment box, the rule pop-up disappears, even as you're still typing. I hope that's helpful!