Ken’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2020)

Ken’s comments from the The Obscure Reading Group group.

One topic we have mostly avoided is the subject of women as seen through the lens of Victorian times. I noted more than a few lines showing attitudes that don't wear well over time, but I've also seen evidence of Hardy being more attuned to a woman's POV than his contemporaries.

Although they are different cases, both Arabella and Sue give Jude fits (in different ways). If many of you are identifying with Jude, are you also feeling his frustration with the women in his life?

Is he a precursor, maybe, to Freud's yawp: "What do women want?"

Jan wrote: "Given the religious motifs throughout, that would fit with St. Augustine: “Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are.” "

I am unfamiliar with that St. Augustine quote, Jan, but I like it, I like it! I also think the Democrats should adopt it in 2020. I invited all of them to this group, but they seem to think there are more important things than obscurity (this when most of them are headed there themselves!).

Diane wrote: "I was late getting started and just finished these two sections. Religion is not my strong point, so I'll leave those references to those of you who can notice and explain them.
I did highlight thi..."

Good quote, Diane, about Jude's "sense of harmony" being sickened by the world's unfairness. This will be echoed by Sue up the road, but for now your quote about the birds and gardener and harmony reminded me of the famous philosophical debate about God--one I"m sure occurred to Hardy.

It is this: If God is loving and merciful, why would he stand back and allow evil to play out in his kingdom? Is He ineffectual? Does He really not believe in what He says He does?

Such questions come up again and again in history. The Holocaust is a great example, as shown in Elie Wiesel's book, Night, where prisoners are constantly crying out, "Where is God?"

Finally, notice how young Jude props up Phillotson with shining characteristics the teacher cannot possibly meet. Maybe hero worship, which is natural to the young, but also proof that the less you know about someone, the more likely you are to fill them with exemplary characteristics they cannot possibly meet. It helps when said person no longer lives in your town, too.

I remember as a kid growing up how I'd always think the new kid in school was so cool compared to the same humdrum kids I knew through the years. Then the new kid opened his mouth and talked. And acted. And chose birds for his feathers. He would have been better off remaining a mystery, in other words.

Anyway, young Jude's Phillotson worship is ironic, given how Jude will later feel about his teacher.

Jan, when I read points 3 and 4 in your post, it reminded me of how the grass is always greener elsewhere---until you get there.

It's human nature coming out in Jude. Hope. Yearning. A new life. Sometimes the down and out feel moving far away will solve their problems, but more often it's no better and sometimes worse as human nature exists everywhere. That plus the fact that you must take yourself and your innate temperament with you wherever you go. You can flee your physical surroundings but you cannot flee yourself, as you are the baggage and its contents both.

Jude in Christminster (what a heavy-handed symbolic name!) will be the same as Jude in Marygreen (also), no? Sad and frustrated, seems.

Good excerpts, Lori, reminding us not only of the craftsmanship Hardy applied to his prose but of how Wessex and place in general always stand as characters in his books. Young Jude has no clue (as most of us don't) of the stories that lie in the land we walk every day.

I like to think of time machine movies that do a fast sequence backward, how buildings go down and up and ultimately disappear to wilderness entirely. The more familiar equivalent is the saying, "If these walls could talk," but Hardy submits a grander saying, "If these fields, streams, ponds, and woods could talk."

John, good thoughts on Bacchus there. Who was it who made a big deal about Apollo vs. Dionysus (using the adjective forms) and how they work for the allegiance of every man?

Frankly, I saw the statue scene as another comeuppance to religion (note the landlady's reaction, expelling Sue!) and, more importantly, a key aspect of Sue's characterization.

This girl likes to upset carts (which society and religion are all-too-willing to provide).

Darrin wrote: "In Part Second, II.-II., Jude, looking for work as a stone-mason on campus, comes to a workyard of a stone-mason suggested to him when he left Alfredston. Hardy writes a couple of lines I really li..."

There is something, isn't there, between universities' buildings (outer world) and the knowledge they teach (inner world). One seems to feed the other.

I know when I return to my alma mater (as I will be doing tomorrow, it so happens), it is the old brick buildings and the ivy and the walkways and the trees that move me most. Place triggers memory of knowledge, both gleaned and fumbled back in the day.

Sorry, I've been out of the loop for a stretch. Ice storm in southern Maine took us back to Lincoln cabin days (and you cannot do the Internet by candlelight).

Sandy: Arabella's conniving is a decisive negative for the reader, but I find it hard to believe she will remain such a flat and reprehensible character, like many of Dickens' (oh, I don't know... Fagin or Uriah Heep, maybe).

Cindy: Very interesting take on the bird scene. I never once thought of Christ/Judas/birds as a "flock" metaphorically. Birds and grain DID bring Biblical parables to mind, though, just not the Judas angle.

The grain is not Jude's to give is true! Of course, we could one up that and discuss ownership of land. Is it man's to own? And, as Tolstoy (a Biblical sort) would ask, "How much land does a man need?" There is a marked connection between religion and capitalism, and it isn't pretty. In America today, we can even say between religion and politics, and it's even LESS pretty.

Back for more later...

I have opened the discussion thread for Parts One & Two.

For those of you who are still playing pass-the-catch up, fear not. You can jump in any time between today and next Friday, when the Part Three & Four discussions open.

For those of you who have read ahead, try to confine your comments, questions, etc., to events in Parts One & Two only, so as not to serve as a spoiler for other readers.

I'm looking forward to the discussion!

-- Ken the Obscure

OK. State of the Union time, which means I'm going to bed with a book.

Cool story. I think we are of an era where ALL of our parents wanted their kids to be freakin' DOCTORS and LAWYERS. Money, money, money. That old ethic of wanting your kids to do better than you financially (kind of going out the window these days because, although the economy is supposedly booming, our kids are loaded with student debt, high rents, and ridiculous costs for daycare and healthcare).

We share a love for the Russians. Man, what a class they put together in that Golden Era!

You must speak fluent Korean after your many years in that country.
And I couldn't even begin to tell you the name of a Korean classic. Probably poetry or philosophy, though.

Do you mean he went on to read many classics after that course inspired him? I love stories like that, actually. A teacher. A class. A changed trajectory in some respect.

I, too, was a liberal arts guy, majoring in English (not teaching, either... that all came much later) despite discouragement from friends and family who said, "What are you going to do with THAT?"

Incredibly, I walked into a phone company office for an application, filled out a form, and was called for an interview. When I was hired for a marketing job, I found every one of the people in my training class was a liberal arts graduate, too, NOT a business school one.

Later, I asked my boss about this. His response? "They wanted new hires who were good at communication and capable of thinking outside the box." (Rhombus, circle, trapezoid, whatever....)

See? People get spooked by the word "classic," when, in fact, classics come in every stripe and polka dot.

Plus, you have all week to jump in on Parts 1 and 2. We don't start talking up Parts 3 and 4 until that Hallmark Holiday that puts people in the red.

Hmn. Three parts. Kinda John Dos Passos-like. (He had some series or other.)

I usually read books straight through, but I purposely stopped at the end of Part 2 to keep my head straight for discussion purposes. Meanwhile, I'm reading other stuff until next week when I launch into Parts 3/4.

I know, I know. Most people can keep it straight and plow ahead, but I'm not most people.

I will look at The Dynasts. I actually thought Jude was the last novel. I sit corrected!

Cathleen wrote: "It’s Saturday morning, a bleak, grey morning—and I’m looking forward to hunkering down and reading Jude. As luck would have it, I found this edition (profile pic) in a used bookstore this week. $2...."

Nice score at the store, Cathleen. Great price!

And I, too, am enjoying the early going. Can't say much yet, but we'll leave it at that. Unlike The Mayor of Casterbridge, this revisit to Hardy is bringing back the GOOD memories.

Rabbit, rabbit, rabbit! (A first-of-the-month superstition from the UK, is all.)

It's Feb. 1st. I hope everyone has a copy of Jude in hand and is off to the races (or at least is saddling up).

Understood if you're taking a break for tomorrow's Super Bowl (or its commercials... or its halftime show...or to go out to a typically difficult to get reservations restaurants while the rest of the country watches some fool game).

Fast readers can start midweek, I'm sure. Discussion opens Fri. night the 7th Eastern Standard Time.

Jan wrote: "Ken wrote: "It's 7:10 on the right coast (Down East Edition) , and I just wanted to say, "Welcome, Jan!"

Your post reminded me of myself in my teaching days (which ended but six months ago). Ever ..."


What edition do you have? I can't find a cover like that in the "other editions" list here on GR.

Let us know what the students have to say. Should be interesting!

And finally, no tests from me. Many here, including Fergus, have read this already. (I haven't.) Many, too, know a thing or six about Hardy. (I'm a blank Hardy slate.) So while I'm happy to moderate, ask questions, and offer my impressions, a seminar professor I am not!

Welcome, Darrin. You should have no problem finding JUDE in the library. Classics typically wait patiently on library shelves.

If you don't read a lot of classics, the good news is that this one is reader-friendly. It's not a head-scratcher like, say, Ulysses, by my old friend James Joyce.

The thing with the beginning of classics is the exposition at the start. You just have to ease into them. The rewards will follow!