Ken’s
Comments
(group member since Jan 21, 2020)
Ken’s
comments
from the The Obscure Reading Group group.
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I'll add to Sue's and Diane's and others' comments: this book is like the ones I loved as a kid. They take me to another world and entertain me. They have real atmosphere. I know I won't forget "being inside" this school long after I'm done with the book.
Yes, Abigail may be more than one person, but only one is writing the notes, I'll wager. Still, the Bishop Matula may contain a network of resisters.On the other side of the coin, I suspect the Bishop Matula may also harbor some moles for the bad guys. Darrin pointed out, for instance, that Mraz is Russkie for "scum." And from the get-go, I've had my suspicions about good Saint George (Kalmer). Too good to be true, for one, and Susanna's bullshit meter goes off every time he comes near her, for two.
Mitsi seems too old and removed to have her finger on the pulse of daily goings-on at the school, whereas Konig seems to be in the thick of every little thing. Why else would he test the patience of our hero, Gina, so much?
And let's not forget, it was the small world created by air travel that contributed to the virus's wild success. I still can't believe how quickly it spread and how prevalent air travel is!
There is also a scene in Night where the prisoners watch German soldiers and single German girls walking by together sharing laughs, flowers, the sunny day, etc., all in the name of irony.The prisoners? They might as well be rocks.
Sandra wrote: "Yes, Jan. I have one son who is a professor at Humboldt in California and another who teaches at the United World College in Singapore. They are in the midst of all the questions and confusion that..."Sandra, your son and our own Laysee are in the same (albeit LARGE) city on the other side of the earth.
What was it Disney said? Ah, yes. It's a small world, after all.
Diane wrote: "I think this is one of those books where you need to read between the lines, which makes it very deep indeed for me. I have finished at this point, but I wish I had time to immediately re-read this..."Cool re: Jeopardy!. We tape it so probably will see it tonight or tomorrow night (typically we watch sets of two and zip through the commercials).
As for rereading being a revealing exercise, I think this exact point was made in the book's introduction! Glad you enjoyed it, Diane. Can't wait for your input in the final thread when we're all finished.
Cindy -- It appears we agree on the Abigail mystery (if you go back up and click my hidden SPOILER guess). Inspector Clouseau is a good way to describe him. Much too obvious in his bumbling to be a random characterization on the part of the author, methinks.Jeremy -- Glad the virtual curric. for the virtual new school year is ready. I saw in today's NY TIMES that Paul Krugman (one of their columnists) said the U.S. as a country has failed the famous "marshmallow test," wherein kids are unable to postpone eating a marshmallow even knowing they'll get MORE if they just wait. All this opening early because we don't have the will is the test we're failing, and it probably ensures schools will be in the same position come Aug./Sept. (that of virtual meetings only or staggered schedules with half the students attending on given days or weeks). This is what happens when politics is somehow mixed with science and medicine, but I've vowed (thanks, Jan) to leave politics out of the mix here, so I'll leave it at that.
Oh. And I agree with you about the hymn debacle not exactly being heart-stopping stuff. It's almost unworthy of a resistance fighter's time, actually. Who cares what a congregation sings? Go out and blow up Hitler, why don't you.
Sandra -- Not very deep? It is the greatest fear of ANY book group, that the selected book will not be "chewy" enough for discussion. On the one hand, I think the mysteries and the historical connections have given the book plenty of grist for our mills. On the other, I can see your point. The book is more of an entertainment (though, to my mind, an enjoyable one). I will venture this, though. I don't think the characterization is much. To me it is more of a plot book.
Sue wrote: "Ken, when you mention that Szabo is a source of pride in Hungary now, I can’t help but think she would be despairing about it’s state. Apparently its president has taken on dictatorial powers since..."Yes, sad's the word for the Viktor Orban situation in Hungary.
I viewed your spoiler, Cindy, and it's a good point -- one I overlooked. I also noted a briefer than brief oddity involving a character named Mraz who looked at Gina longer than was appropriate. I think he was involved in clean-up for broken glass (the aquarium incident, which IS a mystery still to be reckoned with, as is the delightful fiasco with church hymns). So I said to myself, "Why did Szabo drop this weird detail about this minor character into the narrative?"
He could be a good guy or a bad one, but it's hard to believe his name won't come up again in Part 3.
I'd love to check out her poetry, even though poetry through a translator darkly is never the same as poetry in its own language.In Message #4 north of here, Diane mentions the air raid. I have to admit that this was the first clunker for me in the book. It seemed so swift, the whole bit about everyone letting bygones by bygones.
I admit the utter fear brought about by an air raid might do the trick, I just don't think Szabo drew the scene out enough to give it justice and make it more believable. I had to read it twice to see if I missed something after the girls were suddenly hugging.
Realize this might not be a popular opinion, but....
And Angela, I think this might make a good whole class novel for English classrooms, too, don't you?
I have two suspects for the identity of Abigail, too, and I'm OK identifying my guesses because I don't consider a guess as a spoiler. Still, as some of you might disagree and not WANT to read my speculations, I'll use the HTML code to put it in spoiler brackets so you can click and read or pass on it till later.(view spoiler)
Terrific insights (and research!), Cindy. I recall reading about the Latin inscription but then promptly forgot about it. Still, as you say, authors are not in the habit of including things for the hell of it. Not even in novels (where excesses are taken at times).And mea culpa on page 95. I actually flipped to the page to reread the paragraph you alluded to. The reference to Radio Moscow glided past my eyes unseen somehow.
Very interesting and proof positive that my Eastern European history is badly wanting. For some reason I didn't even perceive the Communists as being part of the picture until Germany's defeat in '45 when the Red Army ran over the eastern front all the way to Berlin.
As I recall, this book is set in '43 and then '44, so I have Hungary as a puppet regime under Germany's fascist boot. There was a reference to Horthy, who is also mentioned in the first chapter of Elie Wiesel's Night before the Germans and their Hungarian confederates place Wiesel's family on the transports. What's unclear to me is whether Horthy was the one deposed or put in place by the Nazis. I'll check that out as a minor point of interest vis-a-vis the book.
Anyway, excellent bird-dogging on Szabo's history as a writer in Hungary. I'm sure she's a source of great pride in that country now. I know I'll be reading The Door some time in the months ahead, and I'm surely enjoying this book now.
If you have the nyrb edition translated by Len Rix, this discussion thread covers pp. 115 - 234. If you're using another translation, it covers chapters beginning with the start of "At the Hajda Patisserie" and finishing at the end of "Documents."
Welcome, Sue! I'm so glad you have the book, for one, and are enjoying it mightily, for two. One great thing is that most every reader here is finding it entertaining.Reading books through the years has expanded my definition of family. A boarding school itself can become a surrogate family. For that matter, on a smaller scale, so can a clique (or gang, if you prefer a more pejorative slant).
In this way, characters are formed for good or for bad. And there's no doubt that all of these girls, many decades later, will look back at the Bishop Matula days as seminal to their lives and their outlooks on life.
As for the war, in Part 2, which I have finished and which I am about to put a thread up for today, it comes much more into the picture. The mysteries surrounding Abigail remain, though I have my theory and would be surprised if I'm wrong (OK, delighted if I'm wrong).
Speaking of mysteries, the solution to the two teaching K's is not resolved in Part 2, either, but I will hold to THAT prediction, too, mentioned earlier in this thread with a nod of appreciation to the Von Trapps.
Not sure how they could improve upon the thread format for discussion purposes. Is there another web site with a better way? Linking it to one of the software engineers at GR might help.As for the YA talk, I am guilty of bringing it up. I agree it's a non-issue in that a good book is a good book. I only broached the topic because I love issues of definition.
For instance, what is a classic? I've read it's a book that continues to be read after 50 years, but is that THE definition or just ONE definition?
I like the idea that the language is simplified more in a YA book, though again, that could be argued, too. Consider Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea. The language couldn't be simpler, yet no one argues it is YA.
One thing, too, is point of view. If it's first-person or third-limited from a kid's POV (as this book is), you might ask, "Would a teenager think that way and use those exact words?" As a writer at a course I took, I offered up the first chapter of a YA novel I was working on and THAT is exactly what I heard the most about. Something like, "This sounds more like something an adult would SAY or THINK, not a kid. You need to revise it."
Anyway, we can leave the YA topic and focus on other stuff going forward. I have started Section TWO already and run across stuff I can't wait to comment on but am dutifully holding back on until Sunday night.
Sometimes I think the division between discussion matter should be four days instead of seven but, like the thread format, there are no perfect solutions.
Darrin wrote: "I am the father of two boys and I just haven't had this experience as a parent. Our sons are roughly 4 years apart and even as kids had very little conflict with each other. As they have become adu..."I think you need to see it from the angle of school. I saw plenty of students like your boys (conflict? what's that?), but I also saw my share of students like Mari Kis the Mastermind.
As for the girls' cruelty, it's effective as hell. It annoys readers of empathy (a word we assume every human possesses, even when news on the front pages proves otherwise), and yet we cannot deny that, as a plot device, it turns pages. I kept wanting to see what Mari Kis had up her sleeve next and how this embargo on all things Gina would end. In this first section, it did NOT end, and there's no denying that Mari Kis's excuse to the authorities when the girls are caught "marrying" objects was ingenious.
Finally, a quote I marked on p. 50, one that gave me reason to believe that Gina was not a simply-characterized spoiled child of privilege. There were many like this, but it proved to me that this child was already somewhat of an adult.
This is in the church when the school is praying. She is complimented by Susanna for her devotion, yet Gina's mind was elsewhere. The comment forces her to think these thoughts:
"She [Gina] was ashamed at having deceived Susanna, however inadvertently. She had been taught to speak the truth, and she was no coward. She opened her mouth to say that she did not deserve these compliments when Susanna turned away and hurried on ahead."
The thoughts of your typical 14-year-old? I would argue they are not.
The YA issue is a bit fraught. There is YA and then there is YA. All I know is that borders are now blurred. Also, from a writer's perspective, I see YA as a fruitful endeavor because it, along with Romance, has been one of the most lucrative genres in publishing.Consider, too, the Harry Potter series. It blew the "Berlin Wall" over. Nobody of any age cared what you labeled it because, quite frankly, it was enjoyable to read. I see this book the same way, and it gives further credence to Diane's comment about The Book Thief, another fantastically successful wall-smasher.
Diane wrote: "Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help."What's funny is, before starting the book, I assumed Abigail would be the protagonist, too. Oopsies.
But I liked the fact that the book turns out to be named after a statue, and not just ANY statue, either. A plot-device statue! (And try finding one of those next to the garden gnomes at Lowes.)
