Ken’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2020)

Ken’s comments from the The Obscure Reading Group group.

Biblically put, Matt! A lot of reaping and sowing going down in the Bible. I wonder if others are having the same experience.

In my own case, I thought the issue was failing to mark passages to comment on and just trying to read on for enjoyment. After doing that, looking back from the stern I saw more fog than ocean.

How are we doing here?

The book seems meatier than a deli but the halls seem vegan quiet.

Is this because the book is too difficult?

Is it because some intended readers opted out at the last minute?

Is it because we're intimidated by Fyodor (Dostoevsky, not Karamazov) and worry whatever we say might be wanting?

Feels a bit like the Flying Dutchman, what with the skeleton crew and all.

I'm also interested in the infamously famous Inquisitor's chapter. My take is that freedom is a bad thing, and that it's bad for mankind because mankind cannot handle it.

You can see how this might appeal to Ivan in particular. You know what they say: There's something about Ivan.

Cherisa writes: "What grabs me right from the start is how quickly and how deeply conversations go in Dostoyevsky. No hemming and hawing and wells and all rights. I don't know how real that is, did people ever really talk like this? But my gawd, could you imagine participating in such conversations with your friends and new acquaintances today? Not just talk about the weather or latest tik tok meme, but how to live our lives, what we're doing, whether we love humanity...."

Yes, the conversations DO fill a void for readers who are fed sound bites on TV and through texting and social networks. They remind us of all of those (ahem) DEEP conversations we once had at college in the dorms when we first began searching for the meaning of life.

As a corollary, it seems these characters debate material that comes from their READING. Today, many people are fed short, memorable, repetitive propaganda on the same technological devices alluded to above. That's it. They have the answers quickly, painlessly, and they'll brook no argument.

Perhaps, then, reading these philosophical talks in Dostoevsky fills a void in our own lives?

The knee drop is explained in next week's section (Part 2), which I just finished. That said, I will say I really liked that touch, not just because of the mystery but because it seems to touch on the "mystery" aspect of religion and monastic life.

We also get a little of the controversy over this monastery's particular "take" on what being a monk means, bringing me back to debates over those orders that stay within their walls and those orders that go out to live the hard life among the poor.

OK, as it is Feb. 1st (rabbit, rabbit, rabbit), I'll go first with a minor observation that, each time I hit it, seemed more and more incongruous (but typical of Dostoevsky).

The patriarch and buffoon (as he calls himself and so well backs up with both words and behavior) Fyodor Pavlovich has an amazing array of literary and Biblical allusions. Yes, he uses them in inappropriate ways, but nonetheless, they don't seem to entirely fit a man whose passions indicate less respect for books (even the Holy one) and greater respect for boozing and wenching (the sensualist, as FD more than once points out about the hot-blooded family).

But it's not just Fyodor. Right down to characters like Smerdyakov, you get literary allusions. Schiller is especially popular. It's all the other Fyodor, of course, the author. When it comes to his characters, he's generous with his own impressive reading experience and spreads the wealth among his novel's characters.

No, not evenly, but still, to the point where a reader might say, "Wow. Are all of these characters spending THAT much time with German literature, the Old Testament, the New Testament, etc., despite indications to the contrary?

Of course, it could be argued, with the exception of the peasants, such knowledge was more prevalent in Dostoevsky's time. No TV. No Internet. No streaming podcasts and music into your earphones. (Amen and fire up the samovar!)

Cherisa wrote: "I would like to recommend reading up on the three temptations of Christ (bread, miracle, power) before the chapters Rebellion and The Grand Inquisitor (Part 2, Book V, Chapters IV and V). It’s a go..."

That's a helpful tip, Cherisa. Wikipedia's entry under The Grand Inquisitor gives the quickest recap of this chapter's purpose and ambiguities.

22 January. High time to get Karamazov off the ground with a goal of finishing Part One by Ground Hog's Eve.

I have a poetry book going, too. For breathers.

Kathleen wrote: "I was able to put a link in the other day, so I'm going to try again. Is this it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4vr... Someone said it worked if you just paste the link w/no goodreads html. ..."

Good to know! I believe this is what Internet people call a "hack."

Goodreads disallowed all links in comments because so many bad actors were linking to ba-a-a-a-ad sites (if you can believe).

Dawn wrote: "New to the group. Excited to read Brothers, as it has been on my list for a long time. I was warned away from P&V and CG, so ended up with McDuff. Thanks for the list of nicknames and, instead of ..."

They don't call bathrooms "reading rooms" for nothing.

And welcome, Dawn!

Welcome, Liz! I too am a retired English teacher. Should we change the name of the group? I thought I read The Karamazov Bros only a few years ago, but the GR shelfing system tells me it was 2009. This reveals my age. And why I'm rereading it against all odds. And evens.

Diane wrote: "I'm going to start, but not promising to finish if it gets too deep. I promised myself that this year would be more about books I'm really excited about, so if I get bored, it's kurtains for Karama..."

My wife has an in-person book group that skews toward bestsellers, too, only they always pick ones that have been out for more than a year so they can be had via library loan. I call it the "We Refuse To Buy Books" Book Club. Or maybe the "We Refuse To Sit on a Wait List" Book Club.

Kelly wrote: "I confess I loled when this book was chosen. Mainly because this was the LEAST obscure book of all of them. I would go on a limb and say this one is not obscure at all ;)

I think this group is a ..."


Fair. There's some merit to that second paragraph of yours especially. I see the same dynamic (or, as you call it, "human nature") at work with genres. Readers say they are expanding their comfort zone by reading more "obscure" genres like poetry, drama, and short stories, but the reality on the ground is it's mostly talk.

Fiction, fiction, fiction -- with the occasional nonfiction title thrown in for good measure (and thanks to "creative nonfiction," those two genres have been dancing of late, as nonfiction writers use the novelist's toolbox to good effect more and more).

Oh, well. I'm going to rationalize by saying The Karamazov Bros. is obscure in one respect -- the number of readers who won't pick it up plus the number who abandon it make the total finishing it, um, somewhat obscure. (How's that for creative math?)

Glad you're giving it another whirl, though. If parts of the book get out of control, we'll give Dosty a time out in the dogma pound

Reading a book on the Stoics today and came across this quote that applies, I think, to the odyssey we are about to embark on:

"Many schoolteachers teach The Odyssey all wrong. They teach the dates, they debate whether Homer was really the author or not, whether he was blind, they explain the oral tradition, they tell students what a Cyclops is or how the Trojan Horse worked.

"Seneca's advice to someone studying the classics is to forget all that. The dates, the names, the places--they hardly matter. What matters is the moral. If you got everything else wrong from The Odyssey, but you left understanding the importance of perseverance, the dangers of hubris, the risks of temptation and distraction? Then you really learned something.

"We're not trying to ace tests or impress teachers. We are reading and studying to live, to be good human beings -- always and forever."

Scout wrote: "Amazon doesn't have the Avsey translation. Do you guys have a suggestion of where I can purchase a new paperback copy? Thanks in advance :-)"


Scout, I got it it at Barnes & Ignoble by searching The Karamazov Brothers Oxford World's Classics.

I guess it makes identify theft easier in Russia, where there are some pretty good hacks.

I believe the suffix "-ovich" means "son of." Thus the father of Alexi, Dmitri, and Ivan would be Fyodor.

I put up the reading schedule. Each "Book" is around 200-235 pp. Book Four, however, runs some 325 pp. I decided to break that in half and spill into March. That way, should anyone fall behind, there will be some time to catch up.

Are we OK with this? Does it look doable?

Discussion FEB. 1 -- FEB. 6

PART ONE

Book One -- "The Story of a Family"
Book Two -- "An Unseemly Encounter"
Book Three -- "Sensualists"


***

Discussion FEB. 7 -- FEB. 13

PART TWO

Book Four -- "Crises"
Book Five -- "Pros and Cons"
Book Six -- "A Russian Monk"


***

Discussion FEB. 14 -- FEB. 20

PART THREE

Book Seven -- "Alyosha"
Book Eight -- "Mitya"
Book Nine -- "Judicial Investigation"


***


Discussion FEB. 21 -- FEB. 28

PART FOUR

Book Ten -- "Schoolboys"
Book Eleven -- "Ivan Fyodorovich"


***


Discussion MARCH 1 -- MARCH 6

PART FOUR

Book Twelve -- "Judicial Mistake"
Epilogue