Carol’s Comments (group member since Jun 05, 2013)

Carol’s comments from the Ask Carol McGrath group.

Kathleen wrote: "I am also quite interested in this..my personal research is that my mother's family, Faunt, from Ireland were in the employ of the Norman kings from the Conquest. They are in Ireland in 1171 as res..."

It would be great if you could post a source for Harold and Edith being attracted to each other first. They could have been of course. Women, however , were not that independent that they could choose their husbands but they could have land as wills indicate. Gytha was related to King Canute through marriage. She really was an aristocrat! I think she is fabulous. The Irish connection with the Godwins is interesting. Godwin was a slaver. I shall look up that source too. He had connections with Viking Ireland which should interest you, Kathleen. I think the book is Medieval Slavery. Will try to chase it up.

Paula wrote: "Like Carol, I am also very interested in the rights of women at the time of the Conquest. My research has turned up lots of interesting facts that women were far from being the down trodden pawns i..."

Paula wrote: "Like Carol, I am also very interested in the rights of women at the time of the Conquest. My research has turned up lots of interesting facts that women were far from being the down trodden pawns i..."

Yes there are wills and women did have in theory more inheritance rights than later. Henrietta Leyser is very good on this.

The Norman Chroniclers used it. They wrote in Latin. It was used by Oderic Vitalis I think and that was where I got it, from Norman Chronicles. I read everything primary ie within 100years of Conquest. I must find out the English term though. It will be something else perhaps. Good question.

Must look at AS Chronicles. I think Edith is not entirely dislike able. Pragmatic, always pro Norman. She really did help with the settlement re her mother. I read this too and must check which chronicle. Will post if I find which one. But she is the wicked Queen of the piece in a way. I love Gytha. now, I wonder what you think of Count Alan because he is big in my second book in the trilogy!

The Tortula speaks of cosmetics and that goes back as far as 11th c . It was recorded in Salerno. I think they may have done actually. 'If a woman needs to colour herself let her rub her lips well with the bark of the root of the nut tree. Let her put cotton upon the teeth and the gums and let her dip it in composite colour, and with this cotton anoint the lips and gums inside.' Tortula, but as it is translated, cotton should just be linen unless it came from Egypt? Ideas travelled anyway then. People travelled a lot more than we can ever appreciate. Does anyone else here have any ideas on this topic? Helen?

I think there is a panel missing at the end of the tapestry too of course. Logically it should show William's coronation. So did Odo who fell out with William and who was imprisoned have it removed on his release. Who knows? It would certainly make a good da Odo Code. There are so many mysteries re The Bayeux Tapestry. Sometimes Trevor Rowley who has just written a book on Odo runs a course in Oxford on The Tapestry . It is excellent. I admit I based my burning house theory on Andrew Bridgeford who wrote a book about it. If you google him you should find it. I shall look it up and post the title. May be the Hidden Messages in The Bayeux Tapestry. I also used Carola Hicks analysis which suggests some panels were made at Winchester or Wilton and that Dowager Queen Edith was behind it all. I incorporated this notion into the Handfasted Wife. Best of all is the British Museum book on the tapestry, a compilation of lectures given at a conference around six years ago. It was a terrific conference. Inspiring.

I have to read Helen's Emma story and will read that soon. She was a fabulous character. Have you read Queen Emma and Queen Edith, Pauline Stafford. It is factual, autobiographical and very good too. We shall put Helen's books up here today on the virtual book shelf for sure.

It isn't the way I wrote The Handfasted Wife which is a novel not a biography and , of course, your theory is as possible as any other, indeed. This is the interesting nature of discussion. We must get your book on the shelf here too this month.

I think it is open season frankly. Helen could be right. I know you have this theory, Helen. Equally, it may simply be an old story that reflects badly on the House of Cedric , the English Royal House, suggesting that Edgar the Aethling's father was in fact illegitimate and therefore Edgar Aethling's father was not a true inheritor of England. Edgar Aething's grandmother possibly had an affair with a churchman. I sort of go with this smear on the House of Cedric from which King Edward came. This vignette did come after 'the promise' scene thus giving further weight to Duke William's claim to the throne. Remember this is few years before Harold Godwinson was elected king. As for The Burning House, I did realise what you meant, Kathleen. I am not sure that the Normans would actually have cared if it gave a bad impression, should it have represented Edith Swan-Neck.

Of course, in The Handfasted Wife I am writing fiction so I am being speculative there. I throw out ideas to make us think but I do use historical records where they firmly exists. Looking at the provenance of a source is really interesting too though they still provide those tantalising mysteries.

And, of course, the scene is negative no matter who the mysterious woman really is.

I think it could be argued that Odo commissioned the Tapestry but that it was made in England in at least two locations. Canterbury was where it was designed and then there were workshops in several places, Wilton is one such. At a British Museum Conference on it some years ago this point was made on the basis of differences in the panels . There are joins etc. I will look that up and come back to it later. The fleeing the burning house could be ambiguous. The Normans had no love for family Godwinson. The sons rebelled, attacked England, plotted with the king of Denmark. The youngest Ulf , only a child was taken as hostage to Normandy where he remained for twenty three years. He was released by Robert Cuthorse after William's death. So you see that the tapestry could show Edith Swan-Neck in flight but, equally, the intention could be a more general representation of flight prior to Battle. However, the haste with which Harold rushed to the south coast after Stamford Bridge is said to have been because his personal estates were attacked. He could have put Leofwine his brother in charge of the campaign. He had a wound to his leg for a start from the Northern fight, was not terrifically fit at Hastings. There is so much we just do not know but it is interesting to make informed speculations. I adore mysteries.

Worth a look I think.

There are only three women depicted on the Bayeux Tapestry. One is the mysterious woman named as Aelgiva placed beside a monk who reaches towards her face. Below in the border there is sexual imagery. Harold has just made his infamous promise to William Who is she? The second is probably Edith, wife of Edward the Confessor. She is present at the death - bed scene and the third is fleeing from a burning house on the eve of The Battle of Hastings. They are probably all royal women so who is she? Could she be Edith Swan-Neck with her small son Ulf? What do you think?

Paula wrote: "I was wondering of you could recommend some good sources for cosmetics in the11TH c"
Yes absolutely. Google The Trotula edited and translated by Monica H Green . Look on my blog, scroll back to an article on it. Although I wrote about cures for illness there are recipes for cosmetics. I intend blogging on this next week so watch out for this. The blog, of course, is linked to my Goodreads author page so it will show up there. Now the Tortula was set down in eleventh or twelfth century and you can guess that the info there goes back even further. It is an invaluable resource, my favourite.

There was a school for aristocratic young women at Wilton Abbey. Edith Godwin was highly educated there. She spoke languages and was the best embroideress in England. She mad Edward's tunics and shirts, well embroidered them. I also was surprised about the monks doing tapestry work . They worked on them too. Then the fact that nuns and monks somewhere like Wilton could co exist. I did not really change direction in this novel until the end. I found out that Edith Swan-Neck probably did go into a convent in time and therefore my plan changed. I hope I am not giving spoilers. I also found out that women did not ride side saddle so how did they manage their skirts? I give Countess Gytha a divided gown designed for her especially for purpose. I expect the over gowns were voluminous enough though to gather up and allow to fall either side of the legs. You start thinking about this as you write. I think there is a lot we have to make informed guesses about.

Kathleen wrote: "Regarding the marriages of this time like Emma of Normandy's and Elditha's to Harold. Is there any evidence that Elditha's father or others felt these relationships would last or was it always a gi..."

Thank you for reading The Handfasted Wife. Marriage more danico as the Handfasted marriages were, was the common form of marriage in the Danish influenced parts of England such as East Anglica. It is suggested by historians that Elditha's marriage this way was not so that later there would be a church marriage. Frank Barlow suggests that they were, in fact, related and therefore not eligible for a church marriage , in fact Elditha was the patron of St Benets Abbey in Suffolk. Harold improved greatly Waltham Abbey. They were married for nearly twenty years. Also when Harold married her he was no way likely to become king. He was a warrior, a rich young man and his elder brother Sweign was still alive . King Edward was married to his sister and might have children. As for Elditha she was an heiress it is suggested with her own lands. Her family are never mentioned. Harold as second son did ok but of course when he became king he needed the alliance with the northern earls to protect England so he may have made the arrangement referred to in the novel. It is possible that Edith Swan-Neck was orphaned and raised by relatives. Anglo-Saxon women in theory kept their own lands after marriage. After the Conquest this changed and the husband by law controlled the wife's property. It is very far past and of course women are shadowy Not much recorded in chronicles. But I like to think that the set aside of Edilta was a political act and that prior to kingship though he was not faithful to her he loved her. Their children all have references in history we know their fates! Frank Barlow wrote a book called The Godwins which really explains the rise of the family and explains the marriage. I think it was intended to last.

Paula wrote: "What id your favourite bit of research regarding women in the 11TH C?"

I loved reading about Edith Godwin . Frank Barlow wrote about her Vita Edwardii. Now she was behind it but she did not write it. Clearly scribes did. However there is a difference in tone between what was written during 1066 and after the Conquest. The early section praises her family especially Tostig and Harold and later it is more about Edward's saintliness and Tostig is in favour not Harold. It shows her pragmatism I think

I have been asked about women and cosmetics around 1066. They used skimmed honey , a little white bryony, squirting cucumber and a little bit of rose water . They boiled this mixture and reduced by half. They anointed their lips with it night and morning. It solidified the skin of the lips , refined it , rendered them very soft and preserved the lips from ulceration.

Does anyone else have any other questions on this or other related topics. Or ideas?

I would love you to ask me about the royal women of 1066 and what life was like then whether or not you read the novel. Open to questions !