Carol’s Comments (group member since Jun 05, 2013)

Carol’s comments from the Ask Carol McGrath group.

The overlap of Alan Fergeant and Hoel his father confused me. I did not know when he took over from his father. His marriages were very significant. I knew about Constance.

Yes it was Alan Fergeant for whom I was looking. And Hoel's story. All interesting and background for my current story. Many thanks.

They seem amazing times. If only I could time travel. I had no idea Brittany was so interesting. Who was overall in charge ie the main overload count in Alan's day .

Intermarriage of course brought Brittany close to France. Depends on the concept of liberty and for whom? Like the fact the Barons' rebellions in England goes back to notions re liberty but I doubt common people had a great deal of true liberty. William inherited an English Law system. One can be romantic I think about these issues.

I know Avranches well. I know Rouen well also. You are correct. Interesting that Rouen rebelled in 1090 at William 11's instigation. I might use this info or infer it as background. Like this very much I like the movement between Brittany and Acquitaine too.

Zoe,thank you. This is so very helpful.

Goodness I am not qualified to answer this but Eugene of Bologne rebelled, Robert William's son rebelled, Alan did not. He supported William 1 and William 2 and my guess is discontent and so on but not related to ethnic background particularly. However as regards the next century others will know more than I do. But I will point out that Henry 11 's Devil's brood rebelled against him and that barons of Norman descent rebelled as much as those from other groups. They were war lords Kathleen. They had a different consciousness to a degree. But land as ever would be an issue , tax and financial gain.

And also regional differences do preserve interesting and older cultures just as today I enjoyed working in a very cultured an interesting enclave of Punjbi culture in London. Or perhaps the first wave of Poles even before 1940s who are integrated here. Then there are Jewish communities, age old but very integrated too with more in common with English life than Isreal but they do have unique cultural differences too. So yes it was a Norman Conquest, led by a Norman Duke incorporating other people relatives and so on with strong ties to other parts of France, Italy and so on. It is interesting.

Because in life the only certainty is change. Because at the time of Conquest a Duke who may have been of mixed lineage was and called himself Norman. Moreover by the 12th C a new English nation was emergent mixed as it had always been. It is just fruitless to become rooted in old ancestry. Besides where did their fealty lie after Conquest for their lands in England. It lay with the English King no matter how mixed this ancestry through intermarriage becomes. Also culture intermingled. The Normans did not totally destroy English ways. They carried on the law system. Even music and dance intermingled, instruments and age old stories. Many nations made an English race and language by the 14th C as Chaucer's English indicates. My thoughts anyway on these issues of genealogy.

I think she will love this.

Zoe, thank you. I can't wait to look at this book and put this info into the story.

I wonder can we open a new discussion on 11th and 12th century consciousness , the influences on people's mindsets. What do you see the major influences on the early medieval or really mid medieval mindset at this period. For novelists it is always important to get a hold of how people thought then even if you break rules and allow modern sensibilities to creep in. Can you think of novels that capture this well? Or non fiction works that are worth looking at. One I like is 'Thinking Medieval'. I do sometimes knowingly break rules because my stories need to appeal to a 21st century audience. But I try to hold on to something of the mindset. All offers welcome. Please contribute with a historical novel you feel succeeds even if you have not spoken here before.

Welcome Elizabeth who is a superb novelist writing currently in the 12th century and who is exceptionally knowledgeable about William the Conqueror , the Marshall family and medieval women including Eleanor of Acquitaine.

Very interesting. I think many of us a real mix. By the way Zoe do you know Count Alan's colours etc?

Brilliant. This explains much. A novelist friend, Elizabeth Chadwick is obsessed about William Marshall. Another book to add to the shelf. I know she does a lot of research but if you google her, Zoe, you will find all about her extra curriculum research re Marshall too. Now I do believe his trade interests ie Alan's must make sense. What a brilliant man he was at accumulating wealth and keeping in with various groups. I do depict him as busy soldiering. I shall add trading to his canon of talents.

I wonder to what extent there is Viking blood as well as Celtic in the Breton world. An expert on the Normans is Trevor Rowley whose Bayeux Tapestry course I took in Oxford and who has written books on the Normans. I left mine in England but he too has origin theories. He may be worth googling. Will add his book to shelf.

Brilliant Nicky as I use William of Durham or one of his satellites in Countess of the North in a fictional way. I must cut and paste to you to see if it works when I go through this novel. On final chapter. I loved working on the Domesday chapters. There will be more queries anon. Do you know if Countess Adelaide William's sister, had property near to that ascribed to Alan in Yorkshire. I left my Domesday in Oxford though can check on the online link. She may have but not actually ever been in residence. Thank you for posting.

That is probably so. They gradually arrived. The Normans positively invaded. Though there was a Norman presence already in King Edward's court. Emma was Norman of course.

Zoe wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "... ethnocentric in their marriage patterns ..."

That's so true of my family tree also: despite their predominant Anglicanism, they gravitated toward British and Irish Celts (not ..."

My US cousin has had books written by researchers on the Hennings but they only go back to early Victorian times. They were here since the Boyne I suspect. That is family legend anyway. 1690 is a period that really interests me for a future novel too.

I think he was at Hastings. I have read this but can't re member where. I think he could have died in Brittany but how. It could be almost anything really. If I was writing my book over which I won't as it is almost done and that makes a Year's work I would be tempted to use the later dates. It would be a very different story. However I wanted to use domesday in the novel and land as background plus the atmosphere is faithful too. He was a soldier first and foremost and a loyal counsellor to King William I have no doubt. So in my story poor Gunnhild suffers. It is not too late to insert your Countess Adelaide information and possibly D'Aincourt wed to Alan's sister though maybe not since I marry Walter's son to Alan's supposed daughter as in the Richard Sharpe theory in Haskins Journal. But as I say when I write a non fiction work to accompany these books I shall include all theories. Zoe , you are a treasure for us here who are interested in Alan's story. Invaluable so thank you.