Do Atheists Have Values?

This week, atheist and activist Vyckie Garrison shares some things that are hard to hear. Our interview continues in this Part 5 of our series.  Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4.

I paired these two videos together because the first may make us Christians feel insulted. The second helps remind us of Vyckie’s humanity.

Watch Vyckie talk about how Jesus was an abusive bully. Her remarks originally appeared in this post at Alternet “Escape from Duggerville: How playing the good Christian housewife almost killed me (if you read the post and would like a response to some of the Biblical passages Vyckie uses, please ask in the comments).

Notice how Vyckie also believes in evil, and see if you can pinpoint her prime example of evil today?  I find it helpful to note that Jesus agrees with Vyckie’s example of evil (see these verses in Matthew 23:13-26).

If reading in email, view here.

The verse I use in response to Vyckie’s point that it is evil to abuse a mother’s love for her children can be found in Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:2, and Luke 17:2. If you read it in context, you’ll notice Jesus is talking to those of his followers who are craving power over others, something Jesus and all of his followers should be concerned to stamp out:

“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”

One of the ways I work to end spiritual abuse is in hosting classes and community at Freedom Builders, an online group of ragamuffin Christians who are digging deep into personal healing and awareness of the spiritual abuse epidemic. Our next class beings June 1, 2015. Sign up here.

Notice that Vyckie believes in evil, that it must be stopped. She and I disagree about whether Jesus is or was a bully, but we both agree that bullies should be stopped.  Being an atheist doesn’t mean you don’t have values.  In fact, that’s something Vyckie and I discuss in this next video.

In the next four minute video, Vyckie and I explore how her de-conversion didn’t change her as much as she expected. Honesty, integrity, truth, kindness were all important to her as a Christian and they remain important to her now, as an atheist. At this point in the conversation, a classically trained apologist may have asked Vyckie to justify her claims to morality without a God. And while that might have become an interesting conversation, it was more important to me to hear about Vyckie’s reasons for rejecting Christianity, to listen fully until I found a question that I (not my apologetic training) wanted me to ask.

Vyckie no longer accepts what she believed was the Christian teaching of love. Love used to mean martyrdom to her, and she used John 3:16 to prove it.  Love meant to give, to sacrifice, to die to yourself, to put everyone ahead. Love, to Vyckie, meant to erase yourself.

I would differ in how I define love, but I have no doubt that many Christian groups teach a toxic form of love that means self-abnegation.  I would define love with Jesus’ words “Love your neighbor as yourself” that our very capacity to love others well pivots on our capacity to love ourselves with honesty, consistency, kindness.  I love the great Catholic philosopher, theologian Thomas Aquinas’ definition of love, “willing the good of another.” Love is impossible if we have no developed self to will from. I value Joseph Pieper (not Piper) definition of love “It is good that you exist and insofar as I am able, I will contribute to your flourishing.” Notice “insofar as I am able”.

Vyckie brings up the value of self care to properly love. And as self-soothing (a la David Scharch’s work) or self care has become a growing concern for me in my own life, in my work with Freedom Builders in our online community, I want to ask those of you tracking with us.

How have you learned to grow in your care for yourself?
What Scripture do you rely upon to help you devote time to caring for your own flesh and soul?

Vyckie and I also talk about how her fundamentalist roots remain a part of her, even as an atheist.  Notice how she defines fundamentalism in the last few lines of this four minute clip.

If reading in email, view here.

As always, all respectful comments (from any faith or non-faith background) welcome.