Thanks for posting, Nickolas. I've gotten so many compliments about this post but all in the form of private messages. Invariably, people praise my "courage," as though I'd participated in the Selma-Montgomery marches or something. Says a lot, doesn't it? Everyone is so frightened of provoking the true believers...
How are you going to rag on Edgar Allan Poe?Then berated Lord Dunsany?
Thump on Oscar Wilde?
Beat up Ambrose Bierce?
Slap around Nathaniel Hawthorne
Belittle Matthew Lewis?
Punch out William Shakespeare?
Kick around Dante Alighieri?
. . .
Franklin wrote: "How are you going to rag on Edgar Allan Poe?Then berated Lord Dunsany?
Thump on Oscar Wilde?
Beat up Ambrose Bierce?
Slap around Nathaniel Hawthorne
Belittle Matthew Lewis?
Punch out William..."
I can hardly find racism in the Bard or the Sommo Poeta, for the matter. Shylock? I tend to find that his 'Do we not bleed' speech, the most powerful piece of rhetoric in The Merchant of Venice is often overlooked. Iago? Well, Iago's motivations remain obscure...
Mmm. "Why does Horror continue to make a patron saint of this creep?" Surely one has to separate the man from the work? And surely 'liking' Lovecraft does not imply affinity with his personal attitudes (that is like saying if you enjoy Wagner, you are a closet Nazi). This reminds me of the recent Benjanun Sriduangkaew brouhaha in SF, where this feted author has been exposed as an infamous internet troll. Does this invalidate all current and future work? In the case of Lovecraft, what about his legacy and influence on the horror genre? Anyway, very provocative and much food for thought in this blog post, thank you.
Honestly, I plead some ignorance here. I have read a little Lovecraft, but not his complete works. I was unaware of the extent to which his racism permeated his works. Having said that, his prose is often remarked as uninspiring as well. However, it's hard for me to dismiss him. Somehow, and sometimes in spite of his limitations, he produced a strangely brilliant world of Old Gods and dark life hidden below the surface that comes straight from the collective nightmare consciousness and he did this in a way that has inspired countless others. I guess I have to say all reading should be done with a critical eye, even when it is for entertainment. One hopes that readers can make their own judgements on what they will take of value from any writer. As written above, much food for thought.
E wrote: "I believe you have the right to say you do not like somebody for this and that..But You DO NOT have the right to ignore his statue.You gotta make your own judgment."He has a statue? Watch me ignore it.
[Sorry this sounds so harsh. But -- seriously? -- I do not have the right?]
Robert wrote: "E wrote: "I believe you have the right to say you do not like somebody for this and that..But You DO NOT have the right to ignore his statue.You gotta make your own judgment."He has a statue? Wat..."
LOL
E wrote: "And dear Blair, I have the right to speak my mind and it is not right to mock and humiliate others."Of course you do. So do others. No one is mocking or humiliating anyone here. It is called intelligent debate.
E wrote: "OK. sorry.I did not mean to be aggressive or rude.I just got angry for a sec. I said, Rob is a precious friend and I respect his opinion, even though I, to some extent, do not approve it."Heh, no problem, I apologise for sounding a bit peremptory myself.
Robert is a typical author; a born agitator.
E wrote: "And dear Blair, I have the right to speak my mind and it is not right to mock and humiliate others."Hi E. For clarification, I wasn't mocking or humiliating anyone. My LOL was directed at Robert's answer to your statement about the statue, which I found bluntly humorous and refreshing. I promise you I very much respect your right to speak your mind and assure you my three-letter remark was only an expression of my own amusement.
E wrote: "yeah. you are certainly right about Robert and the discussion we are having my dear Gerhard. I am not saying that Rob is wrong,he IS right. but,IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, you just can not destruct some ..."I suppose the problem with this liberal argument is simply: where do you draw the line? Are we then to argue that Hitler etc. also fall under the rubric of 'All of us are the mixture of good and bad'? It is an issue that is raising its head more and more in ordinary society: even the Charlie Hebdo shootings are an (extreme) example of where to draw this line.
What I find fascinating about Robert's blog, and in particular the references, is how Lovecraft is seen to have codified racism / xenophobia in the guise of his fiction. This is honestly an aspect of Lovecraft I have never considered before, and is of course deeply disturbing.
E wrote: "I guess you are right about drawing the line.I think you are right. but what do you suggest?"I honestly do not know. Reminds me of New Criticism, which espoused 'close reading', divorced from both the reader's life and his/her sociopolitical context. It seems to have gone the other way now, with the author being of more interest than the work.
I agree that HPL possessed the ability to evoke a disturbed state of consciousness, but I've always felt this had more to do with mental illness than literary skill. (It reminds me of Laurence Olivier's bitchy remark about Marilyn Monroe, that she was good at playing abject confusion "in the same way that midgets are good at being short.") Literary skill is not in evidence, but the frenzy of hysterical admiration HPL still inspires among adolescents is not difficult to sympathize with. Everyone goes through periods of alienation and paranoia: that's what being young is all about. Everyone needs to grow through it. Rejecting horrible writing full of hateful messages is an excellent place to start.
There is an excellent Ellen Datlow anthology called Lovecraft's Monsters. A lot of really good horror writers here:“Only the End of the World Again" by Neil Gaiman
“Bulldozer” by Laird Barron
“Red Goat Black Goat” by Nadia Bulkin
“The Same Deep Waters as You” by Brian Hodge
“A Quarter to Three” by Kim Newman
“The Dappled Thing” by William Browning Spencer
“Inelastic Collisions” by Elizabeth Bear
“Remnants” by Fred Chappell
“Love is Forbidden, We Croak & Howl” by Caitlín R. Kiernan
“The Sect of the Idiot” by Thomas Ligotti
“Jar of Salts” by Gemma Files
“Black is the Pit From Pole to Pole” by Howard Waldrop and Steven Utley
“Waiting at the Crossroads Motel” by Steve Rasnic Tem
“I’ve Come to Talk with you Again” by Karl Edward Wagner
“The Bleeding Shadow” by Joe R. Lansdale
“That of Which We Speak When We Speak of the Unspeakable” by Nick Mamatas
“Haruspicy” by Gemma Files
“Children of the Fang” by John Langan
Robert wrote: "I agree that HPL possessed the ability to evoke a disturbed state of consciousness, but I've always felt this had more to do with mental illness than literary skill. (It reminds me of Laurence Oliv..."I'd never heard that Olivier quote on Monroe. Priceless.
Robert wrote: "Excellent writers. All of them superior to the source material (and yet the hagiography continues)."Robert wrote: "Excellent writers. All of them superior to the source material (and yet the hagiography continues)."
I think it is akin to Hugo Gernsback being hailed as the 'father of SF' ... ultimately a very crap writer though. Unsure about the hagiography: is Lovecraft even fashionable still? The horror genre itself seems to have been superseded by the New Weird.
Robert wrote: "Gerhard wrote: "The horror genre itself seems to have been superseded by the New Weird..."If only."
Heh. Blame it on the twinkly vampires.
Gerhard wrote: "Heh. Blame it on the twinkly vampires."Do Ms. Meyer's readers even know who HPL is?
No, the genre has always attracted more than its share of 'true believer' personality types. "You have no right" is not an atypical response.
Hello there Robert, to come across your post on HP this morning was terrific because I'm researching him at the moment. I am in full agreement with your view of this weird guy. Oh, but don't give up horror, just write it elegantly and well! I think people read him a bit like they read comics. He is bad taste personified and when you discover about his life it all becomes clear.
Rebecca wrote: "He is bad taste personified and when you discover about his life it all becomes clear..."Agreed. What never becomes clear is the degree of fanatical devotion he inspires.
So true. Something to ponder on, that. I just put up a photo of him and of Aubrey Beardsley on my Facebug page and asked other writers who the pictures were of. One person finally realised they were different men, and won a copy of my book, but perhaps if people don't even recognise who isn't their hero, then they haven't really looked at the life of HP either. Glad Sonia and he didn't stay together.
Read the private life of H.P.Lovecraft by sonia Davis.I finished it recently.I could not believe when she said H.P loved and admired Hitler.
That's a shame, I really wanted to read some of his work, but I don't know if my conscious will let me. I'm not squeamish mind you, but I still like to keep my morale's in check. Anyways just my thoughts.
I've tried too, Thomas. I just can't do it. (It doesn't help that his prose style gives me nosebleeds.)
The game Call of Chthullu: Dark corners of the earth is what perked my interest of Lovecraft as I even watched a whole walkthrough on Youtube. I then looked around and thought about reading one of those collections of Lovecraft. Until I saw some people claim he was racist, which at first I thought it was just trolls or people blowing something up out of proportion. But once I dug deeper and found your blog, well I was a bit disappointed. I found the Lovecraft mytho's of old gods and such quite interesting but held off first to get one of his collections and now I'm grateful I did. Now I know some say it's just the way it was back then, but I remember hearing that Lovecraft's work was quite racist even for back then. Even if it wasn't, it still doesn't make it right in my opinion. Sorry for driveling there a bit just wanted to put my two cents in.
I played the game,too.It was one the very first things that made me follow Lovecraft.It really is an amazing game,you see.but when,a few days ago,when I read he was a fan of Hitler,I was shocked.
I can hardly read all the way down what all of you have said, I'd be dead at the end of it, but, let's look first at how good a writer he was. Honestly, if someone said to me Walter de la Mare was a racist, I'd have to ignore that because of the beauty of his writing. But in the case of HP Sauce, his writing is well... shitty. More or less shitty. But this was a guy whose mother thought his arms would drop off if he raised them above his head, so what can you say after that. I'm really not interested in squid-faced monsters, but guess what? We got Sigourny [sp?] Whatnot facing a squid faced thing much more serious than Facebug itself, that implanted itself into her, and she was only wearing a singlet at the time... a man's one at that. So what else is there to say... or not.
... What I mean really is that even though HP was utterly vile, he somehow left intellectual and social mould behind him which grew.
That's what I'm struggling with. Should I read a author, who many consider a classic author, who wrote things that I find morally wrong even if it's considered a classic? If him or her kept there controversial views to themselves and did't put them in there books then that's fine. But lovecraft did put some racist stuff in his works so should I still read it?I probably won't, but I do struggle with this question with both books, movies, video games and other works often.
Well, HP is classic because he is unique and opened up a whole new 'story' so to speak. But whether something is considered 'classic' or not has nothing to do with quality or dignity or literary style or anything of the sort. I'm sure that Stephen King is thought of as classic, but that doesn't mean he's a good writer, or more to the point, Richard Matheson who wrote 'I am Legend,' fabulous title, shitty, badly written book, but such a good idea, that like HP, he opened up a vein [that I personally wish would dry up now... all those deeply boring zombies and shit.]. So that's why these people are 'classic' because they create new roads that other writers can follow ... if other writers were sheep. I think as far as you reading Lovecraft is concerned, if you think that his writing was good and his stories were good, then read him. You can move on anytime you like, after all. [Do not be trapped ever by the New Puritanism that tells you what to like and not to like].
True, at the moment I probably won't read his work but that's more to do with other books I'd like to read right now. Though I doubt I'll end up reading of his work anyways, still thanks for that insightfull replie. : )
I do not read fiction because I approve of an author's racial/religious/political beliefs or to pat myself on the back for supporting those persons deemed progressive and enlightened. I do it because I enjoy the story they've written. That's all. Most people don't know about an author's personal view point and couldn't care less. They're not looking to him for moral instruction or self-validation.I happen to think that Lovecraft is vastly overrated as an author, even as a horror author, though I cannot deny the glimpses of genius in a few of his better stories or in his collaborative world-building with fellow authors. The Mythos feels real, ancient, and dreadful in parts, provoking a deep, quaking, existential horror that popular horror writers of today do not come close to. And yes, some of that ability is inextricably tied up in beliefs that many today find unutterably offensive. One of HPL's best, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, could simply not be written by someone who did not have his deep loathing of miscegenation. I'm still waiting for the enlightened modern gentleperson to tell me that he does not share that same revulsion at the very idea of Deep Ones interbreeding with human beings.
Anyway, the bashing of Lovecraft by the community of modern horror readers and authors seems strange to me considering the current state of the genre, so riddled with torture porn and gratuitous indulgence in scenes of sexual perversion.. What's worse: a gruesomely drawn-out scene of child molestation, or a cat named Nigger-Man?
Michael wrote: "Anyway, the bashing of Lovecraft by the community of modern horror readers and authors seems strange..."The only bashing I ever see in the horror community targets those who point out that HPL was an awful human and an awful writer. Much safer to keep one's mouth shut.
I have "no right." And dissenting opinions are not tolerated.
While what you say Michael is well said indeed, there are some of us who do take into account an author's personal attitudes to life, and since there are so very many books to read in the world, we can afford to do this can't we? I think it's a good thing to care enough about a writer's real life, if we're going to spend time reading his or her work. Although it's true that very often the info. about the personal life isn't available anyway. Equally, if we as readers want to read bad writing, that's a choice too. On my part, I find I can't read bad writing, or overblown writing such as Lovecraft produced. However, for my own purposes I'm very interested in his personal life, and am researching it at the moment. But having said all that, it was very common for writers from England in the 30's and 40's to be anti-semitic and it did creep through into their books, so the bad characters would be 'swarthy'... ha-ha. And of course I'm not saying therefore I never read any of their books, or never read any of the well known pedophile authors, but Lovecraft with his terrible writing and hatred of humanity is just a few steps too far for me, and who do you think the Deep Ones were?
@Rebecca: Yes, I agree with you in that it is legitimate for someone to reject an author for good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons at all. We will never read all the books that are already published, so there must be a process of narrowing down what we want to read. My point, if I may be glib about it, is that life is too short to only read people with whom I know ahead of time that I agree with in their personal views.As for the Deep Ones, I think they're Deep Ones, but I also think it echoes the fear of blue-blooded WASPy New Englanders mixing with any of the "savage, inferior" races that Lovecraft loathed.
Rebecca wrote: "there are some of us who do take into account an author's personal attitudes to life, and since there are so very many books to read in the world, we can afford to do this can't we?"Wow. This is so wrong, in so many ways. That way lies literary fascism, book burnings, thought police, the Charlie Hebdo shootings.
Rebecca wrote: "... I must remember to order a copy of Mein Kampf then. :-)"I'm sure HPL would have been happy to lend you his copy.
Hi Michael,yes, I took the Deep Ones to be that fear of outsiders you mention. I have an interest anyway in the lives of other writers, and read a lot of biographies of the same, so perhaps I'm more inclined to check them out first, or at least simultaneously if I like their work. But yes, I guess you could feel that .... oh, hang on, I don't believe I ever said 'read people with whom I know ahead of time that I agree with in their personal views.' Agree with their views! Heck no. I don't think you read me properly.





Bottomline: if you can so easily justify another person's racism, then it's a good bet youve gotten real handy at justifying your own.
We're never going to live in a perfectly equal, just world for all people. But why make it just that much harder to become a close reality by letting any such actions or words be given a justification for any reason at all?