"...Who Taught Man the Use of the Pen..."

aamna - Hello there  :)
I was just wondering because I thought art was haram in Islam, in fact that's one of the reasons that I want to leave it. I love Art but it's obvious that it isn't allowed in Islam - well, of animate things anyway. So how did you balance? Do you just not draw animate things? Thanks.
Muhammad Rasheed - Hi, aamna
It's funny that you said it was "obvious" that art isn't allowed in Islam, considering that there's nothing in the Qur'an saying it is forbidden.  The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would never command anything that Allah Himself didn't command.
aamna - That's how I justified it to myself. But you can't simply choose to ignore the hadiths. They come from the most reliable and authentic sources. 
Hadith 7.838 (Sahih Bukhari) We were with Masruq at the house of Yasar bin Numair. Masruq saw pictures on his terrace and said, "I heard 'Abdullah saying that he heard the Prophet saying, "The people who will receive the severest punishment from Allah will be the picture makers.'" (Narrated by Muslim)
Hadith 7.846 (Sahih Bukhari) (the wife of the Prophet) I bought a cushion having pictures on it. When Allah's Apostle saw it, he stopped at the gate and did not enter. I noticed the signs of hatred (for that) on his face! I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I turn to Allah and His Apostle in repentance! What sin have I committed?" He said, "What about this cushion?" I said, - I bought it for you to sit on and recline on." Allah's Apostle said, "The makers of these pictures will be punished (severely) on the Day of Resurrection and it will be said to them, 'Make alive what you have created.'" He added, "Angels do not enter a house in which there are pictures."(narrated by Ayesha).
Hadith 7.840 (Sahih Bukhari) Allah's Apostle returned from a journey when I had placed a curtain of mine having pictures over (the door of) a chamber of mine. When Allah's Apostle saw it, he tore it and said, "The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah's creations."  So we turned it (i.e., the curtain) into one or two cushions. (Narrated by Ayesha)
There are many, many more hadith on this topic. If you don't believe these are authentic, then you probably don't follow hadith because Sahih Bukhari is the most trusted source of hadiths in the world. Yes, the Quran doesn't mention it, but the Prophet is the example to follow and he has made it very clear to stay away from it, which is why I used the word 'obvious'.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's not a empty justification; it's reason and logic applied to scholarship.  The hadith are not the Word of God, and again, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) only commanded what Allah Himself commanded.  If Allah didn't command it, and the hadith is actually authentic, then the prophet's words were from Muhammad the man, and were only suggestion, and were expressed that way.  If the words were expressed as a command, yet there are no verses or anything in the Qur'an to back them up, then they were in fact unauthentic hadith that some conman made up in the past, and pretended to be hadith.  
I follow hadith, but I do not do so as a fool.  The hadith do not rank higher than the Qur'an for a reason, and should be properly scrutinized with a discerning mind. 
aamna - Yes, the hadith does not rank higher than the Quran but it doesn't say that Art is allowed in the Quran either. The prophet (saw) always talked about the topics that weren't addressed. 
Also, he wasn't a mere man. The prophet (saw) is Allah's favourite creation. His name is beside his on the throne. His hadith should be taken very seriously (obviously the authentic ones - Sahih bukhari and Muslim). Not following the perfect example, means going astray. He made his rule on art really clear and he is the best in Allah's eyes. You cannot love and follow Allah without loving and following the Propeht, because Allah clearly loves him.
Muhammad Rasheed  –  aamna wrote: “Yes, the hadith does not rank higher than the Quran but it doesn't say that Art is allowed in the Quran either.” 
So, if Allah never said that art wasn't allowed then the prophet definitely never said it either.  He only commanded what his Lord commanded of us.

aamna wrote: “The prophet (saw) always talked about the topics that weren't addressed.”
Sure, but he only used his authority as messenger on those items that Allah commanded of us. 
aamna wrote: “Also, he wasn't a mere man.”
Of course he was.  All of the prophets were mere men.  Allah said that if the earth were populated with angels, then He would've used angels as His prophets instead.  
aamna wrote: “The prophet (saw) is Allah's favourite creation.”
What are you basing that on?  Allah said the believers are not to show favoritism between the prophets, as that brotherhood all had the same mission.
aamna wrote: “His name is beside his on the throne. His hadith should be taken very seriously (obviously the authentic ones - Sahih bukhari and Muslim).”
The authentic hadith are the ones that reflect what Allah said, and that reflect the objective known facts about the prophet's personality.  It doesn't matter whose name is labeled upon them.
aamna wrote: “Not following the perfect example, means going astray.”
I agree 100%.
aamna wrote: “He made his rule on art really clear and he is the best in Allah's eyes.”
The prophet Muhammad made no rules that Allah didn't command first.
aamna wrote: “You cannot love and follow Allah without loving and following the Propeht, because Allah clearly loves him.”
You cannot love and follow Allah while worshiping His messenger.  I wish you all would stop it.  It is offensive to those of use who worship the One God alone.
aamna - Excuse me, I don't worship the prophet. I'm not even a Muslim. I'm just saying, it's pretty obvious how important Muhammad is in the religion of Islam. He's basically the perfect muslim. Thought that was well known among muslims. Well, you're doing better than me I guess anyway. Islam is man-made to me anyway.
Muhammad Rasheed - aamna wrote: “Excuse me,  I don't worship the prophet. I'm not even a Muslim. I'm just saying...”
Oh.  Well, you were arguing pretty hard from a quasi-pagan stance, that was starting to sound the way the Christians sound over their deified messenger.
aamna wrote: “...it's pretty obvious how important Muhammad is in the religion of Islam.”
The second Pillar of Faith is "Belief in the Prophets."  That is very important.  Why?  Because the prophets were tasked the mission of receiving the sacred revelation and instructing us in scripture & wisdom so that we would have the opportunity to be saved.  That's the sole reason why they are important... all of them, equally.  They are the ones responsible for giving you the message from the One that made you.
aamna wrote: “He's basically the perfect muslim. Thought that was well known among muslims.”
That is precisely why it is important that we recognize him as "merely a man."  It means that if he can do it, we all can do it, and there is no excuse for failure.  If you know the rules and are able-bodied, then if you find yourself in hell you have only yourself to blame and none other.
aamna wrote: “Well, you're doing better than me I guess anyway. Islam is man-made to me anyway.”
I suggest you repent, surrender to your Lord and save yourself from a Fire whose fuel is men & stones.  Attain paradise instead and know Bliss, aamna.  Although the Path can be a hassle sometimes, this will be better for you than what you are thinking.
aamna - I've tried but I see so many mistakes and flaws in Islam. In the Quran itself, it seems like it was made to appeal to the Arab men of the seventh century. The description of heaven sounds boring, and the description of hell sounds too cruel for the Most Loving God to subject his creation to forever. It just doesn't add up. Have you never had doubts?
Muhammad Rasheed - aamna wrote: “I've tried but I see so many mistakes and flaws in Islam.”
lol Like what?  Why are you so sure that what you see is a mistake?  That sounds arrogant to me.  Would you know more than an omniscient being that creates universes from scratch?  Could you hope to match such a being’s insight into what moves the humans that He created?
aamna wrote: “In the Quran itself, it seems like it was…”

“Seems?” 
“Seems” doesn’t sound like sure knowledge, aamna.  Are you really going to risk hellfire for what "seems” like something, when human illusionists like Criss Angel and David Copperfield routinely trick you into thinking things “seem” one way over another?  Curious.  A human being’s got to know his limitations if he hopes to reach at least Step One of sure knowledge. 
aamna wrote: “…made to appeal to the Arab men of the seventh century.”
Why wouldn’t it?  They were the ones chosen to receive the final message of sacred scripture, and as such, their burden was to master it so they could teach it to the world.  Naturally the teacher needed to fully grasp it in his own tongue, using imagery that would drive it home to him best so he would know how to translate it to you.
aamna wrote: “The description of heaven sounds boring…”
Heaven is a spiritual realm that you have zero experience with.  The descriptions in the Qur’an are only physical world analogies that basically say that it will be like the best stuff you can imagine (remember He was talking to the Arabs) but better than that x1,000,000,000,000 and will last forever!  So just replace the stuff that a 7th century Arab would like with stuff a 21st century person would like from your part of the world.  Now you still get a tiny glimpse of what paradise would be like. 
aamna wrote: “…and the description of hell sounds too cruel for the Most Loving God to subject his creation to forever. It just doesn't add up.”
If that is truly how you feel about it… that hell sounds TOO horrifying… then will you not feel stupid if you actually find yourself there?  If you’ve had ample time to contemplate how horrifying this torture realm will be (and again, replace stuff that sounds terrible to a 7th century Arab to the worst stuff you can imagine) then why would you possibly call God’s bluff and risk actually being banished to hell??? 
Is that logical to you?
aamna wrote: “Have you never had doubts?”
Of course.  Am I not human?  Those doubts are the very temptations that beckon me to hell that my Lord commanded me to avoid so that I can go to paradise instead.
Are you actually taking heed to the doubts?  Why would you do that?  Do you hate yourself?

aamna - I don't doubt there's a creator, I'm certain of a God existing who created everything. I'm just having trouble with Islam being from him. The book just isn't so miraculous. It's nothing out of the ordinary work of man. I'd expected more out of the one true God. He didn't mention any great scienitifc claim, no evidence; nothing that would separate his work from a normal man's. His ideas are just taken from what was common at that time. There is so much doubt around it and why would a God punish someone for using their logic against it? Why would a perfect book be so ambiguous that anyone can interpret anything from it - even though its supposed to be clear? There is nothing special about the Quran. To me, it's incredibly boring to read and its main basis is fear of hellfire. The subjects jump constantly and I have read better work. To be honest, no I haven't read the Arabic form and the Quran in its true entirety and I have no right to state my opinion as fact but I can say that I dislike the message. I do NOT agree with wife beating, or men being equivalent to two women. I disagree with the marriage of young girls. I disagree with slavery - no matter how nice you are to them, it should not be allowed at all. As a developed species, we've overcame such things and I feel it's delusional to keep practising those things. It's an obstacle in our development. There was a time for the Quran and I hate to say it, but I think it's over.
Muhammad Rasheed - aamna wrote: “I don't doubt there's a creator, I'm certain of a God existing who created everything. I'm just having trouble with Islam being from him.”
I don’t think you came to these conclusions on your own.  I’ve encountered this exact same list on numerous occasions around the Internet, and it sounds more like an ideological recruiting/conversion effort.  None of these points are very logical based on fundamental insight into Al-Islam and the Qur’an.
aamna wrote: “The book just isn't so miraculous. It's nothing out of the ordinary work of man.”
You think so?  You don’t think it miraculous that an illiterate man would begin to speak a body of revelation, and that in a single draft, would cause the Arabic language to reach “its utmost capacity of expression, and the literature its highest point of complexity and sophistication. Indeed, it probably is no exaggeration to say that the Quran was one of the most conspicuous forces in the making of classical and post-classical Arabic literature.”  For someone who can’t even read and write to perform such a deed in a single draft seems pretty miraculous to me, and quite extraordinary.  Perhaps you have evidence where such a phenomenon is actually pretty routine and happens all the time?  If this is so, perhaps we should stop teaching our kids to read and write?
aamna wrote: “I'd expected more out of the one true God.”
Again I think it is odd whenever an omnipotent and omniscient being is criticized by very, very non-omnipotent, non-omniscient beings.  Do you really have a critique for how you think such a being should/would behave, or what technique He should use for conveying His message to His creation?  This being… by definition… knows all, is limited by nothing, can see into the far future and knows the distant past.  This being knows levels of mastery over items so complex and subtle, it would be impossible for you to even prepare to understand how He could possibly do it.  This is the being that created the concept and structure of mathematics from scratch.  I think this comment of yours far oversteps your bounds as a created creature, and lacks all insight. 
aamna wrote: “He didn't mention any great scienitifc claim…”
He said He created the universe with the force of His will alone.  That isn’t great enough for you, aamna?  Tell me what would qualify as great to you.  Rocket back-packs?
aamna wrote: “…no evidence;”
God, in His mercy, told you the Truth, and gave you a guide book to enable you to take full advantage of that Truth so that you will prosper in this world and in the next.  The evidence lies in taking Him at His word and doing as He says; the fruits of that obedience will be evident -- the resulting success a testimony to the greatness of the Lord of the worlds.
aamna wrote: “…nothing that would separate his work from a normal man's.”
Mere men complain that the Qur’anic verses possess a “lack of continuity, absence of any chronological or thematic order and presence of repetition,”even as they are awed when these same traits produce a quasi-preternatural devotion in the believer, enable the believer to memorize the texts in its entirety, and enable an entire culture’s language to achieve the highest levels of classical literature expression.  Yet you claim that this is actually no different than the work of any mere human being.  Interesting.
aamna wrote: “His ideas are just taken from what was common at that time.”
Is that why the Qur’an changed the world?  Note that there is only One God, and His message is one message that has endured throughout the ages, each component revealed through, and preached by, one of His messengers.  Each of the components of the message of God referenced ("confirmed & fulfilled") the components of the message that came before it, and I find it strange that you would think the Qur’an is unusual in this.  Again you are demonstrating a basic lack of insight into this faith that I assumed you’d been studying your whole life.  Are you really going to risk hellfire over these silly items that some atheist made up and circulated throughout the ‘Net while pretending they are truths about Islam?  Atheists never have insight into religion, that’s why they are atheists.  With their narrow-minded mentality they refuse to contemplate anything outside of what they can experience with their physical senses.   They are not the ones to take as mentors and teachers when it comes to deeper matters, especially those in which your immortal soul are hinged, aamna.
aamna wrote: “There is so much doubt around it…”
Doubt is normal.  Surrendering to doubt is foolish. 
aamna wrote: “…and why would a God punish someone for using their logic against it?"
Because God knows and you know not.  He told you that.  Why would you gamble that your little bit of logic is superior to the Supreme Creator’s Truth?  Doubt all you wish, but give the Lord of all the worlds the benefit of the doubt that He knows what he is talking about, please, for your own sake.
aamna wrote: “Why would a perfect book be so ambiguous that anyone can interpret anything from it - even though its supposed to be clear?”
The book is clear.  The problem here is that you are directing your critical eye in the wrong direction.  It’s the humans that read the text that are stupid.   Sometimes they are stupid because they were born slow, and sometimes they are willfully stupid and refuse to see truth because they prefer to hold onto worthless ideologies and/or mindsets that will not profit them.
aamna wrote: “There is nothing special about the Quran.”
lol We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that point.  I 100% disagree with this and just don’t see it that way.  If you can’t see it then I can’t help you to see it. 
aamna wrote: “To me, it's incredibly boring to read and its main basis is fear of hellfire.”
Its main basis is dual:  paradise & hellfire. 
aamna wrote: “The subjects jump constantly and I have read better work.”
Better work in that genre? 
aamna wrote: “To be honest, no I haven't read the Arabic form and the Quran in its true entirety…”
Have you read it in its entirety in your native tongue?
aamna wrote: “…and I have no right to state my opinion as fact but I can say that I dislike the message.”
Believe in the One God, do good deeds, avoid bad deeds, and repent when you mess up is the message of the Qur’an, aamna.
aamna wrote: “I do NOT agree with wife beating…”
That’s not the message of the Qur’an.  Remember what the verse said?  Tell me.
aamna wrote: “…or men being equivalent to two women.”
It didn’t say that men are the equivalent to two women.  What did the verse say?
aamna wrote: “I disagree with the marriage of young girls.”
What do old Semite traditions have to do with the Qur’an?  Is that a command from Allah??? 
aamna wrote: “I disagree with slavery - no matter how nice you are to them, it should not be allowed at all.”
Allah said that doing good deeds is how you will enter paradise, and He lists “freeing a slave” as a good deed.  lol  What does that sound like to you regarding the Qur’an’s position on slavery as a whole?  Doesn’t the Qur’an encourage the believer to perform good deeds?  So since it considers freeing the slave as a good deed, what does that imply logically?
aamna wrote: “As a developed species, we've overcame such things and I feel it's delusional to keep practising those things.”
If Allah encourages you to do a particular good deed, but you as an individual refuse to do it out of greed, then why are you blaming the Qur’an for the behavior?  Is THAT logical?
aamna wrote: “It's an obstacle in our development.”
It’s an obstacle in a willful individual’s development.  Uthman would free a slave every Friday, remember?  That’s why he was one of those who were “rightly guided,” right?  He obeyed the commands of God in the Qur’an.  So what are the grounds for your complaints against the Qur’an now?
aamna wrote: “There was a time for the Quran and I hate to say it, but I think it's over.”
lol
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