The most interesting of the Angevins

September 23rd, 1158 was the birthdate of the most intriguing and enigmatic of the Devil’s Brood, Geoffrey, Duke of Brittany. I confess he has always been a favorite of mine, his brief rule in Brittany and his premature death raising all sorts of interesting What If questions. There is no doubt that if he’d not died of the injuries suffered in that French tournament, English history would have been changed. But how? I think Geoffrey would have been a successful king, certainly more so than John, for he’d proved his capabilities by winning over the turbulent, contentious Breton barons, and he did not share John’s emotional insecurities. Would Richard have dared to go on crusade had Geoffrey been alive in 1189? Or would they have come to a pragmatic understanding based upon Geoffrey’s likely assumption that his reckless older brother would never die peacefully in bed? After Richard’s death at Chalus, would John have challenged Geoffrey for the throne? Would England have had a King Arthur? Of course these speculations are unanswerable, probably one reason why we find them so fascinating.
I miss writing about Geoffrey, so here is a brief scene from Lionheart in which I managed to infiltrate him into the story line despite being dead for six years. In this scene, Richard is very ill with malaria and running such a high fever that he’s begun to hallucinate.
Lionheart, pages 559-560
* * *
Is this what you want, Richard? A familiar figure emerged from the darkness, holding out Joyeuse, the sword Maman had given him on his fifteenth birthday, when he’d been invested as Duke of Aquitaine. (omission) He reached for it, but his brother pulled it away before his fingers could touch the enameled pommel. What good will a sword do you when you are as weak as a mewling kitten? Geoffrey sat on a nearby coffer, tossing the sword aside. You were so pleased when you heard I’d been trampled in that tournament. Very short-sighted of you, Richard. You’d have been better off with me as your heir, much better off.
As if you’d not have connived for my crown, too! You’d never have been satisfied with a duchy if a kingdom was in the offing
He had no energy for speech, but he did not need it, for Geoffrey seemed to pluck his words from the air, saying with a sardonic smile, Yes, but I would have been willing to wait. Face it, Richard, you’ll never make old bones. Other men lust after women. You lust after Death, always have. You’ve been chasing after her like a lovesick lad and sooner or later she’ll take pity and let you catch her. So I could afford to wait. But Johnny had to entangle himself in Philippe’s web, the damned fool.
You entangled yourself in Philippe’s web, too, Richard reminded him. If you had not been plotting with the French, you’d not have been at Lagny when that tournament was held.
You know why I turned to Philippe. I got tired of Papa treating us like his puppet princes, tired of him dangling that accursed crown before us like a hunter’s lure. So did you, remember? You did me one better, too, doing public homage to Philippe for all your fiefs “on this side of the sea” whilst Papa looked on, dumbfounded. But you could safely make use of Philippe, for you knew you could outwit him and outfight him. So could I. Johnny cannot, as he’ll soon learn to his cost. Ah, well, you’ll be dead by then, so mayhap it will not matter so much
Christ Jesus, Geoffrey, of course it matters! Furious, Richard thrashed about, trying to free himself from his sheets. If you’ve come only to mock me, go back to Hell where you belong!
Purgatory, not Hell, Geoffrey said and laughed before fading back into the blackness. Richard called out to him, but he got no answer. He was alone.
* * *
Henry and Eleanor made some major mistakes as parents, but perhaps their greatest blunder was that they utterly failed to engender a sense of solidarity among their sons. Imagine how different their history would have been if Hal, Richard, Geoffrey, and John had been allies, not enemies?
12 likes ·   •  20 comments  •  flag
Share on Twitter
Published on September 23, 2014 07:01
Comments Showing 1-20 of 20 (20 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Geoffery is my favorite Angevin son of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, as well. Like you, I too have so many what ifs... I do believe that Geoffrey would have been a better king than Richard, and most certainly a better king by far, than John. My dear friend Therese and I have had this " what if discussion," as we continue our reading journey through the now Plantagenet dynasty. Sometimes the "what ifs" are a bit like a cat chasing it's tail, but still fun to just reflect on just how profound a change one win in the battlefield would make, over another, etc. We began our reading journey with the year 1066.


message 2: by Christine (new)

Christine I, too, always wonder what would have happened if Henry (YK) and Geoffrey had lived and Richard and John had passed away in their place- Not, of course, that I wish death on anyone, but for the sake of historical curiosity.


message 3: by Caramelo (new)

Caramelo Hi all. I noticed you all like reading Sharon penman books. So I was just wondering if you could help me.
I have read them all too though 5-10 years ago. I actually want to read them again though this time in "time" order. I was wondering if you know the exact time line of when each book occurred. Not when they were written but the era they were placed in.
Thanx for your time and help in advance
Caramelo


message 4: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Here you go, Caramelo, in chronological order:
When Christ and his Saints Slept, 1120--1155 AD
Time and Chance, 1156--1171 AD
Devil's Brood, 1172-1189 AD
Lionheart 1189-1192 AD
A King's Ransom 1192-1200 AD
Here be Dragons 1183-1234 AD
Falls the Shadow, 1236--1267 AD
The Reckoning 1271-1283 AD
The Sunne in Splendour 1459-1492 AD
I have also written four mysteries set in the 1190's.


message 5: by Marquise (last edited Sep 24, 2014 07:22AM) (new)

Marquise Sharon wrote: "Here you go, Caramelo, in chronological order:
When Christ and his Saints Slept, 1120--1155 AD
Time and Chance, 1156--1171 AD
Devil's Brood, 1172-1189 AD
Lionheart 1189-1192 AD
A King's Ransom 11..."


You've covered the majority of the Plantagenet rule; leaving out only the period from Edward II to Richard II, if I'm not missing something.

That's impressive! If you went the Jean Plaidy route, the only author I know that's written about all of the Angevins and cadet branches, you'd have them all covered. I, for one, would be propelled beyond the clouds in happiness if you were to cover the Edward III period, mostly because of curiosity about seeing how you'd depict the John of Gaunt & Katherine Swynford relationship.

A lady can dream . . . :D


message 6: by Sharon (new)

Sharon I do plan to cover the later part of the 14th century, Marquise. I'd once thought to write a novel about John of Gaunt, but research showed me that his life does not lend itself to a novel form; he functions better if he is not in the starring role, which is how he appeared in Katherine, not the main focus. Besides, who'd want to compete with a cult classic. :-)


message 7: by Marquise (new)

Marquise Sharon wrote: "I do plan to cover the later part of the 14th century, Marquise. I'd once thought to write a novel about John of Gaunt, but research showed me that his life does not lend itself to a novel form; h..."

How interesting! I had the same thoughts you did when I read more about his life after "Katherine" and was lamenting that there weren't any more novels about them. My thoughts back then were that perhaps he could work best if seen through the eyes of the starring character, which could or couldn't be a real person, but preferably a fictional one since it gives more room for plotting. Or even not having him as a POV but show him through the eyes of Katherine, who's easier for novelisation.

Or even do as Jean Plaidy did, both John of Gaunt and Katherine were also featured in "Passage to Pontefract" prominently, but they're not the main characters. Their romance is sort of like the background music for the broader storyline.

Oh, yes, that's a dauntingly high bar to compete with classics. But you can, for sure you can! ;)


message 8: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Thank you, Marquise! Are you a writer, too, for you have a writer's instincts for sure.


message 9: by Iset (last edited Sep 24, 2014 08:06AM) (new)

Iset I still dream of Sharon doing the Tudors. I don't feel like anyone has done them satisfactorily. Well, I have high standards. Margaret George's Elizabeth was marvellous... but it only covers the last couple of decades of her life. And Susan Kay's Legacy is brilliant also, but again, it only covers Elizabeth. Someone needs to produce a really high quality series covering ALL the Tudors. I know Sharon doesn't like them though... but, in terms of a troubled family you must admit they give the Angevins a good run for their money, and would produce an excellent narrative.

I too have also wondered if you would ever join up where you leave off with Edward I to where you begin with Henry VI. I can't quite see you writing about John of Gaunt as a main character either... but perhaps the Black Prince, or Henry IV. They seem ideally placed for central characters. John of Gaunt is really more of a big secondary character pulling strings and so on, but it's hard to give him his own story, so to speak.

Still, my thoughts are rushing ahead. I'm very excited for the change of location to Outremer, for the immediate future.


message 10: by Marquise (new)

Marquise Oh, thank you for the lovely compliment!

Not a writer, no. Not professionally at least, all the experience I have is in writing for my own amusement in the past and working in a magazine for a while.


message 11: by Sharon (new)

Sharon You don't have to be published to be a writer, though, Marquise. Writing for your "own amusement" counts, too. Have you ever thought about trying your hand at writing a novel or short stories?


message 12: by Marquise (new)

Marquise I have, yes. There was a time when I wanted to be a writer, in the same way a child wants to be an astronaut or a singer :). And during that time is that I used to write short-stories, some awful poetry, fanfiction, retellings of my favourites, and one family-saga type of novel which was my longest story. I didn't write it with the intention of publishing, though, and the manuscript was lost in one of my constant moves during my youth.

Now, I only write for academic research in my field and for work, and academia can be so dull that I end up writing some of my papers in a way that reads like a tale :D.


message 13: by Iset (new)

Iset Oh yes, you should pursue it if you love it, Marquise!


message 14: by Sharon (new)

Sharon I agree with Isis, Marquise. If you love writing, you should do it, even if only for your own pleasure.


message 15: by Marquise (new)

Marquise Thank you! I will consider retaking that habit, for sure :).


message 16: by Molly (new)

Molly Murphy Christine wrote: "I, too, always wonder what would have happened if Henry (YK) and Geoffrey had lived and Richard and John had passed away in their place- Not, of course, that I wish death on anyone, but for the sak..."
I think this is a very interesting concept. Although Richard is my favorite for his complexity, I actually believe both Geoffrey and Hal would've made better kings than Richard or John.


message 17: by Caramelo (new)

Caramelo Sharon wrote: "Here you go, Caramelo, in chronological order:
When Christ and his Saints Slept, 1120--1155 AD
Time and Chance, 1156--1171 AD
Devil's Brood, 1172-1189 AD
Lionheart 1189-1192 AD
A King's Ransom 11..."


Dear Sharon,
Thank you so much for this.
I cannot believe "Sharon" herself wrote back to me. Definitely wasn't expecting that.
How exciting. I'm such a huge admirer of your writings.
Have been for a very long time.
Regards
Caramelo


message 18: by Caramelo (new)

Caramelo Sharon wrote: "Here you go, Caramelo, in chronological order:
When Christ and his Saints Slept, 1120--1155 AD
Time and Chance, 1156--1171 AD
Devil's Brood, 1172-1189 AD
Lionheart 1189-1192 AD
A King's Ransom 11..."


Also which books are the mysteries set in 1190's?


message 19: by Molly (new)

Molly Murphy The Queen's Man, Cruel as the Grave, Dragon's Lair, and Prince of Darkness


message 20: by Iset (new)

Iset I have just been reading Mary Renault, Sharon, and am struck by the similarity between Geoffrey telling Richard he won't make old bones, and this couple of lines from Antipatros to Alexander the Great:

"The news itself, though shocking, was a shock long half-expected. He had known Alexander from his cradle; it had always been inconceivable that he would make old bones. Antipatros had almost told him so outright, while he was preparing to march to Asia without begetting an heir."

I can't help but wonder if you've read and been inspired by Mary Renault, Sharon? It's a wonderful turn of phrase, isn't it? Very striking and memorable.


back to top

Sharon Kay Penman's Blog

Sharon Kay Penman
Sharon Kay Penman isn't a Goodreads Author (yet), but they do have a blog, so here are some recent posts imported from their feed.
Follow Sharon Kay Penman's blog with rss.