Q and A #50

Okay, so this is a little different. Lately, I’ve been getting these odd questions on Facebook which I’ve mostly been deleting. Because I assumed the asker was trolling, which let’s face it, happens on the internet on a pretty regular basis. But then I got another one today, and after pressing delete, I thought: wait a minute. What if she’s sincere? What if she’s genuinely confused? So then I felt bad. Which is probably stupid, because she probably IS trolling, but whatever. I’d rather respond and risk looking like an idiot (which happens pretty regularly anyway) than to dismiss a real fan. So, for what it’s worth, here goes.


The question du jour was: Do Mircea’s vampire’s disrespect Cassie because Mircea disrespects her, and they’re taking their cues from him, or what?


Okay, so this is a loaded question making certain assumptions which are open to interpretation. Like, that the vamps do disrespect her, which I would argue isn’t the case. You have to remember that they’re used to thinking of humans as fragile, weak little creatures who haven’t lived very long and don’t know much. They aren’t used to giving any human the respect they would give the average vampire, much less the respect due to a master, so it’s a learning curve. But they are learning.


It’s slow, and comes in fits and starts, and in time of stress they still have a tendency to revert to the old “protect the tiny flimsy creature” mentality. But things are changing. You can see that in how Marco’s conversations with Cassie change over time, how he lets her fight her own battles with the witches in Tempt the Stars, how he is realizing that she will come and go as she likes and he’d better just learn to roll with it, etc. The senate, too, just got a glimpse of what a Pythia can do at the end of Hunt the Moon, which prompted them to sign the alliance treaty Mircea had been working on. So disrespect? Not hardly. But changing minds takes time, and ideas that ingrained aren’t going to completely flip overnight.


The second part of the question was about Mircea. And while there’s a whole sea of things I can’t talk about with Mircea because of the risk of spoilers, I really don’t need to in order to answer this question. What I do need to do is make a point about the difference between the romance you see in romance novels and that which you find in fantasy books. Even fantasy books, like mine, that incorporate romance on a fairly regular basis.


In romance novels, the romance is the plot of the book. It is its own reason for existing. It’s why people are reading: to see these two characters come together, overcome their differences and live happily ever after. In a fantasy novel, the romance may be there in lesser or greater amounts, but there is a big difference: the romance is not the plot, it is there to serve the plot. What do I mean?


Example number one: Lord of the Rings.


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In Tolkien’s masterpiece, Arwen and Aragorn’s romance is kind of a big deal. Not because it takes up a lot of room in the book (it doesn’t) but because it provides Aragorn with his reason for doing what he has successfully avoided for most of a century, and go after his birthright. He doesn’t want to be king. He has major issues with putting himself in a position like Isidore’s where, if he screws up, he can take a whole kingdom along with him. He has a serious inferiority complex when the novels start, leading him to assume that the same weakness that destroyed Isidore is lurking in him, waiting for a chance to ruin everything all over again. So he does what you might expect, and runs as fast as possible from any hint of his supposed “destiny.”


At least he does until Arwen.


aa2


Aragorn didn’t want the crown, but he did want her. And the only way to get her, as Elrond made clear, was if he became king. So, to win the woman he loves, he risks taking on the leadership role he doesn’t want, wins the war and becomes the king he was always meant to be. There was nothing else that was enough to make him risk that, besides the idea of losing the woman he had loved passionately, hopelessly, and for most of his life if he didn’t. The romance wasn’t a big part of the books in terms of space, but it was huge in providing Aragon’s motivation.


Example number two: Game of Thrones.


jc


Cersei and Jamie’s forbidden, incestuous relationship is one of the major pillars of the work.  If they hadn’t fallen in love, hadn’t gotten involved despite being siblings, hadn’t had three children from their relationship, then the War of the Five Kings would never have happened. There would have been nothing for Ned Stark to find out, nothing for him to write Stannis about, no challenge to the throne if King Robert’s children had actually belonged to him instead of being illegitimate products of incest. Cersei and Jamie’s relationship helped set up the whole series, and was central to almost everything that came after. But was it romance novel material?


Lol, no.


jc2


Look, she’s all mad because he lost a hand. Just wait until the sept, Cersei.


My point is that, whether a romance is sigh-inducing, like Aragon and Arwen’s, or cringe-inducing, like the Lannister twins’, all fantasy romance is there for plot related reasons. It is not there for its own sake. It is not there to be some kind of primer on how to have the perfect relationship (although I would argue that getting relationship advice from romance novels is also probably not the way to go). It is not there just for the heck of it. It has a job to do.


So, back to Cassie and her guys. The plot related reasons her relationships exist have, in some cases, already become apparent, others will come out as the books move along. But her relationships all have a reason for existing outside of themselves. They are important, but not in the same way that they would be in that genre I’m not writing in. So can I please stop being asked why the men in the books are acting according to what would make sense for their characters in a fantasy novel, and not like leads in a romance? Can I? Please?


Thank you. Herein ends the rant.


 

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Published on May 19, 2014 12:23
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message 1: by Christina (new)

Christina Sorry to say but I think I'm not the only one who would say that the romance/relationship element of this series is a HUGE driving force for us fans. If the intent was for the series to NOT be centered around Cassie's romance(s) then maybe the very first book should not have been about Mircea putting a geas on Cassie that could only be broken by having SEX . . . with 2 versions of himself, simultaneously, in like the 3rd book of the series.

Please don't get me wrong, I adore the series (and others like it) but I am getting kind of tired of writers getting annoyed by readers "mis-categorizing" their books. If you write books/series that have a really heavy romance/sexual element then sorry but that makes them Paranormal Romance not Urban Fantasy. Don't get ticked off when the fans focus on that element & start to nit pick an obviously disrespectful relationship that comes across more as a Master/Property than a messy relationship where the man & his goons just can't seem to wrap their century old brains around how a "human" woman should be respected.

That right there is why I personally detest Mircea, the vamp goons & the way they treat Cassie. She is NOT just some weak little kitteny human girl, her being the Pythia is supposed to be the whole reason Mircea wants to keep her "safe", because she is so powerful. He is well aware of how strong she is & I'm sorry but all his actions up til this point show that to him, she is a pretty thing he enjoys but is more concerned about keeping her under his thumb than about her as a person.

That's my two cents.I love the series, furthest thing from a troller, so I don't think this person's question was trolling at all because I agree with the comment/question. As do quite a few others I would imagine since my anticipatory comments about Reap the Wind are of a similar content & currently sit at the top of the review section with the most likes.


message 2: by Christina (new)

Christina "I'm afraid that you misunderstood my meaning entirely. It also seems that you think, if a book contains a romance and/or sexual elements, that it must be a romance novel."

- I don't thinks its romance, I think its heavy on the paranormal romance. Vampires, Mages, Demons, Fae, Ancient Gods = Paranormal. I read predominantly PR & UF books, Cassie contains way more PR than UF, in my opinion. While the main plot lines of the individual books maybe not be solely focussed on sex/romance/relationship, they tend to slip into the background & let sex/romance take center stage. Mind you I honestly think that there should be a sub-genre that is considered a hybrid of of the two because that would be where I would actually put Cassie. When it comes down to it, does it really matter what genre gets attached to a series as long as its author enjoys writing it & the readers enjoy reading it? I think it is more important to not let something as small as a label for organization at a bookstore overshadow a work of literature. That is what has been getting under my skin lately, too many authors concerned about the genre label. Labels are stupid.

"So I would suppose then, that GRR Martin, who includes a LOT more sex in his books than I ever have, must also be a romance writer?"

- Sex is not romance, romance has a stronger emphasis on the emotional relationship but GRR Martin, I would consider High Fantasy, which in my experience has always contained a sex/romance element, usually used as a tool or manipulation for power/political gain. But I digress, labels are stupid & really GRR Martin is kind of a genre all his own.

"(Please don't tell him that, by the way. He'll probably kill off another Stark)."

- OMG don't even joke about that! We do not need a riot on our hands!

"Instead, I would argue that it's the focus of a book that decides what genre it is. As I said on Facebook in a reply to another reader's comment, whether a book contains sex or not has nothing to do with its category. If 80% of a book focuses on sex/romance/relationship issues/cute banter between the leads, etc., then you are reading a romance novel. If, on the other hand, 80% of a book focuses on a fantasy plotline and fantasy elements, and the romance is there to support the main plot of the book instead of being the plot itself, then you are reading fantasy. It's that simple."

- I would argue that whichever element has the stronger impact on the reader &/or steals the lime light would be how the genre should be determined, but again labels are stupid & its the enjoyment that matters.

"My books have always focused on the fantasy plotlines. There is sex and romance--it's an adult series, and adult people have sex/get in romantic relationships, so why not? I refuse to cede the use of romance to the romance writers alone. Fantasy depends on having believable characters, and if every character acts like a monk . . . is that believable? Romance is also a very useful tool for a writer to have in her toolbox if it's used judiciously. But that was the entire point of my post: romance in a fantasy is used for a specific end; it doesn't exist for itself alone."

- Pretty much completely agree with all of this, I just want to point out that a writer should maybe not let the romance take precedent over the story they are trying to tell if said romance is only a means to a specific end. Inevitably, if a romance/relationship is written very well then readers are going to fall in love with it more than the story itself. Therefore, viewing the relationship to be more significant than the story going on around it. Really its your own fault, stop being so good at the romance part ;p

"As far as Mircea is concerned, he is in the books, as is Pritkin, for plot related reasons. You'll find out more about those reasons as the books continue. But judging him, as you are doing in your comment, as if he was a human man in a romance novel, with certain Alpha Male responsibilities towards his woman--no, just no. He is not human, he is 500+ years old, and he is not just Cassie's lover, but also part of a magical organization fighting a war who needs her kept alive to assist with that. The actions he's taken need to be seen in context--when were they done? Why were they done?--as well as seeing them as done by someone who, yes, recognizes Cassie's power, but also recognizes her vulnerability in some areas."


- By no means do I judge Mircea by Alpha Human Male in a Relationship standards, that is actually a big reason why his actions irritate me all the more. He isn't a man. He is a powerful ruling entity that is more concerned about Cassie's abilities than as her a person & logically so. I guess I would have much less distaste for him if the romantic element was not present between them. The relationship makes it feel more like she is property to him, if it was not there I think it would just present itself more along the lines of him being a practical leader protecting an ally/asset. Pritkin, while viewing her in a similar ally/asset capacity also cares a great deal more about Cassie the person instead of Cassie the Pythia.

"Mircea is not going to act human because he isn't. He also isn't going to act like the lead in a romance novel, because he isn't that either. He and other people in the books are beginning to reevaluate their initial impression of Cassie, and that is likely to continue. But it is a process, and their reactions to her in the past have made sense considering her age/experience level compared to theirs."

- Good to know, but again I would argue that is part of why it seems Pritkin is the only one not treating her like a fragile nitwit because he actually cares about Cassie not just her as the Pythia.

"Look, don't misunderstand me. I LIKE the romance genre; I think it can be a lot of fun. I am not trying to diss it here. But what I don't like, and what those other authors whose comments upset you probably don't like, is having someone pick up the books and be disappointed/angry because the characters don't always act like those in their favorite romances."

- Not angry/disappointed in the least with the Cassie books, never have been, one of my favorite series. I just don't like Mircea, his attitude, his intentions, mostly just the way he is presented when a romance element is in the mix.

"Authors WANT you to like their books. It's how we pay the bills, okay? But that's not going to happen if you go into a book expecting one thing and get another. A lot of romance readers like my books, but they like them because they're different, and because they knew they were going to be when they picked them up. Not because they conform to rules of a genre I'm not writing in. I hope this clears up the confusion a little."

- The point I was trying to make about the highly annoying 'author genre rage epidemic' is that readers don't always see the books in the way an author intends. Then those authors seem to get their panties all bunched up about the labels that start getting slapped onto their books. Have I mentioned how I think labels are stupid? Yes I am aware not everyone can see past a label & they feel more comfortable sticking within those traditional genre conforms but I guess my issue about it is that as highly accomplished writers these authors should maybe be able to rise above it.

Its nice to have a bit of insight about a series straight from its creator. I can imagine it is very frustrating at times to have people breaking it down as well as viewing things in a way that were not intended to be. Just remember that you have an advantage over all of us readers, you know what all the characters minds are, as well as the end game, we only have the bits & pieces. Sometimes we might put them together in a manner that skews the ultimate vision you have of the work.


message 3: by Christina (new)

Christina I have no qulams about expressing my distaste for the majority of books I've read that are from the traditional romance genre. Nor do I have an issue with saying that those rabid romance reader types you were referencing are probably exactly why it seems the Paranormal Romance genre has a stigma attached to it that authors are trying to avoid I guess. I can't fault you for not wanting people to 1 star angry rant your books because they expected something different than what they get from a Cassie book. I personally think those dummies should pay more attention to a book's description than its genre label, especially when that reader who was hammering you with that question is referencing something from a few books into the series. If they havent figured out Cassie's series isnt a traditional romance that far in well really there is no hope for them.


message 4: by Anna (last edited May 24, 2014 01:40AM) (new)

Anna Hang on a minute, so Mircea and Marlowe's bromance isn't the focus of the books? *wanders off to the reread the series...*


message 5: by Gab (new)

Gab Anna wrote: "Hang on a minute, so Mircea and Marlowe's bromance isn't the focus of the books? *wanders off to the reread the series...*"

Ha ha - made me smile. Thanks.


message 6: by Gab (last edited May 27, 2014 04:54AM) (new)

Gab Karen wrote: "I'm afraid that you misunderstood my meaning entirely. It also seems that you think, if a book contains a romance and/or sexual elements, that it must be a romance novel..." and "Romance is also a very useful tool for a writer to have in her toolbox if it's used judiciously. But that was the entire point of my post: romance in a fantasy is used for a specific end; it doesn't exist for itself alone...As far as Mircea is concerned, he is in the books, as is Pritkin, for plot related reasons. You'll find out more about those reasons as the books continue."

Thanks for the thought inspiring comments. Just write what you feel best not what others want you to write and you'll be respected for it by most (and more importantly by yourself). It's when authors start writing based on what they think the audience want/or whats demanded that series can loose their appeal & uniqueness. The plot flim flams & the writing doesn't come across as relatable because the writer is not writing from the heart (or from the story arc that they've spent a number of books building up). "To thine own self be true" - as long as Cassie acts true to her character I for one don't care who she ends up with. She's just a baby and doesn't need to make life long decisions yet [it's not a romance novel - he he]. Love your work - please keep it up :)


Erin *Proud Book Hoarder* I consider the series more UF than PR....the romance is important to me, but it's always taken a big backseat IMO


message 8: by Jess (last edited Jan 03, 2015 11:29AM) (new)

Jess Wow! That was an intense conversation! I have to say though that no matter how much I love books and Karen Chances books in particular I could never sit and argue with an author over what the genre of their novel was. That was hilarious!! What gets me so drawn into the book every time is the fact that I never know what's going to happen next. Which unfortunately is so rare in a lot of books these days. But Chance keeps me on my toes every time - and I have got to say that Cassie's relationship with Mircea and Pritkin contributes hugely to that... So I love the plot as it has progressed and grown and am amazed at Cassie and her ability to hold her own at such a young age.. I think she is lucky to have Mircea and Pritkin helping her!!
By the way I am a huge Mircea fan, also a huge Dorina Fan! Would love for Dotina and Cassie to meet properly! Is it wrong that I would love Dorina to kick Cassie's butt just a little for that stunt a while back that landed Dorina's ass out in the middle of the dessert?
Team Bassarb!!


message 9: by Gab (new)

Gab I'm with you Jess - I think a little bit of payback won't hurt :)


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