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LenaLena
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May 26, 2013 01:39PM

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IMO
1. You've read too much and you are someone who looks for and is aware of patterns. And once a pattern is spotted, it can't be unspotted. I know this from doing it myself.
2. Most consumers of stories LIKE predictable. If they can't see where the storyteller is taking them they are uncomfortable with the journey. It's not like we don't all know what happens in a fairytale, but still they get told and retold and listeners still think "crap no. Don't do it!" when the stupid bride opens the door to Bluebeard's chamber.
3. Surprise comes across like "wow, the author totally made shit up out of nowhere at the end. What a bunch of lazy crap." Unless there are clues. If there are clues, see #1 above.
4. Me being devil's advocate because I think way too much stuff is cookbook and copycat, but I know I'm not the target market for people who produce stories for a living.
1. You've read too much and you are someone who looks for and is aware of patterns. And once a pattern is spotted, it can't be unspotted. I know this from doing it myself.
2. Most consumers of stories LIKE predictable. If they can't see where the storyteller is taking them they are uncomfortable with the journey. It's not like we don't all know what happens in a fairytale, but still they get told and retold and listeners still think "crap no. Don't do it!" when the stupid bride opens the door to Bluebeard's chamber.
3. Surprise comes across like "wow, the author totally made shit up out of nowhere at the end. What a bunch of lazy crap." Unless there are clues. If there are clues, see #1 above.
4. Me being devil's advocate because I think way too much stuff is cookbook and copycat, but I know I'm not the target market for people who produce stories for a living.

lol it's true! Whenever I see someone advertising that I just spend even more time identifying what that twist might be...
I suppose weirdly given the fact I wrote that post, I'm one of the people who really don't like spoilers. I avoid them as much as possible. But I think that's because it's already hard enough finding things that can keep me guessing as I'm reading/watching, so when I ALSO know for a fact something is coming it ruins what little amount of mystery might be left. If I'm reading something that's super predictable, I still can have it in the back of my mind that, "Ohh, maybe this is all a feint to lull me into a sense of complacency and something big will happen that will turn my understanding upside down on this!" but if I know that the ending or a big part of the story is exactly as I suspected it would be, it's like, great, now why bother reading/watching?
Kate -- 2. Most consumers of stories LIKE predictable
I actually thought about that after I posted-- the idea of whether I'm just abnormal for not looking for predictability and maybe that's one of my biggest issues. I guess for those same reasons, I actually don't want to know if a story IS happily ever after in the ending and don't necessarily require it be so. I prefer things that are appropriate for whatever subject matter or course of the plot, even if that might deplete my Kleenex and toilet paper quota in my house from large amounts of ugly crying.
3. Surprise comes across like "wow, the author totally made shit up out of nowhere at the end. What a bunch of lazy crap."
This is also true... that's not any more satisfying than predictability or might even be less so because at least with predictability usually there are stepping points that get to there, so it all builds on each other to make sense. Off the wall things at the end to add a 'twist' sometimes just means that rather it going from "the hero has a tragic past he's struggling with including having been a street orphan" to "the hero solves world hunger because he's that bad ass", it goes "hero + tragedy + street orphan" to "the hero is an alien and also an anthropomorphic hippo is the king and because of these reasons, an advanced AI system narrowly keeps an asteroid from hitting Earth!"

@Kate - #1 in your list is really bad for me. I always figure shit out bc my brain seems to always actively look for it. And I read nothing but mysteries growing up till adulthood for years.
This is making me try and remember movies/books that surprised me.


Did you find that the mysteries were surprising you or were they predictable, too? I don't read mysteries very often, not because I'm uninterested in the idea of a mystery, but maybe because the one or two I have read didn't impress me that much. But I also read those a long time ago and couldn't tell you what they books were so I have no idea if I just happened to find some less-than-stellar mysteries.
I can't remember offhand stories that left me surprised but now I'm wondering about that too. I can think of plenty examples where I WASN'T surprised... But I suppose listing books/movies that surprised me would be the same as saying "this has a twist ending!" which gets back to Daniel's point lol
Romance + dying MC-- weirdly, I still wouldn't want to know that. I guess because in life death can be unexpected and heartrending, so if that were the purpose of the story, I would like to be smacked in the face with that as much as the character is, even if it's really difficult to read. But if it's done well, it can really speak well to the plot or be integral to character growth. But if I see warnings ahead of time on a story like "character death" (happened in fanfics a lot) then I just won't read it because I anticipate being sad and I don't want to put myself through it. But then I might miss out on a story that might be awesome, if sad.
lol I might just be a masochist when it comes to stories, though...
Although in thinking about this, I rarely read war stories because I anticipate it being really sad and heavy and traumatic, so I suppose I've kind of banned that whole genre in my mind knowing how I might get emotionally involved. Kind of weird how the mind works.
Ais wrote: "it goes "hero + tragedy + street orphan" to "the hero is an alien and also an anthropomorphic hippo is the king and because of these reasons, an advanced AI system narrowly keeps an asteroid from hitting Earth!"
Good thing it was water I snorted all over the screen, there.
Good thing it was water I snorted all over the screen, there.

There have been a few movies that surprised me, but I don't even know if I can name them behind a spoiler tag. :/
I don't want to know about a character death in a nonromance, but I just don't really want to get all invested in something and then bam have that happen in a love story. I might still read it, but *shrugs*. I go in phases though. Sometimes I can blast Tori Amos or whatever and read/watch really depressing shit, and then other times I need to step away from all of that completely.


The thing is, there are only seven basic plots for any tv series/book/film... etc. each varies of course, but after a while when you have read/watched many things it gets easier to identify what's going to happen.
i think that's why the book you read say ten years ago, you may find lacking if you read it again.

I googled 'seven basic plots' out of curiosity and saw the tv tropes page talking about it. That's interesting... and does make sense. (Thanks for mentioning it!)
Although the funny thing is, there are series I adore that still follow one of the seven basic plots, but the journey along the way is varied/interesting enough for me that I don't care. For instance, One Piece is my favorite anime/manga, and it's pretty much the exact definition of The Quest. But because the characters and interactions are so great and the world it's set in is so interesting, and there's plenty of humor and tragedy along the way, I wouldn't compare it as a series to others with the same basic plot. (I tried to think of a good example but am drawing a blank right now -_-)
Seeing those basic plots put into words and thinking about it further, I wonder if my wish is that people would more often combine a few of the plots or at least have one character on one plot and another on a different one? I'm not sure. I think you could probably still stick to one of the basic plots but if the storytelling along the way is intriguing enough, it doesn't matter if the plot itself could be pared down to something super simplistic.
Then again, because I feel that way, maybe that just explains why I care more about character development/growth/emotional connection than plot, because that way no matter how simple the plot is, at least I can find interest in trying to figure out the smaller mysteries of a character's motivations or meaning along the way.
Hmm... You have me analyzing this now :)

I googled 'seven basic plots' out of curiosity and saw the tv tropes page talking about it. That's interesting... and does make sense. (Thanks for mentioning it!)
Although the funny ..."
Awfully late reply, I blame my finales. ^^
You are welcome.
I think one character may have a different plot or goal than the other because of real life diversity and that even if the goal was the same the means to get to it don't have to be?
While I love character development and their connections to other, it still feels that plot plays major role. If the plot didn't hold my attention I probably won't read it.



PS: I just finished the series but you should try the Raised by Wolves series by W. A. Hoffman. I didn't feel it was predictable because if I guessed what might happen, in some cases I was wrong, and even the cases where I was right, the path it took along the way wasn't necessarily what I expected.

PS: I just finished th..."
I'll check it out :)