John Maeda, now president of the Rhode Island School of Design (RISD) had a public, semi-moderated discussion with me at a PARC Forum. The video is now available. I wanted to talk about complex design: interaction design, design planning, etc. He wanted to talk about the beauty of fonts, of knives, and even of the office chair. I tried to say these were simple products that barely needed any understanding of human behavior and cognition -- I want to design the complex. He didn't understand my point. In fact, when I specifically asked him how to design a networking connection scheme that would work for everyday people his answer was a long ramble that never even started to address the issue. So we failed to connect. But many seemed to find the discussion of interest. Decide for yourself.