INTERVIEW: with author Michael S. Jackson
Michael S. Jackson burst onto the epic fantasy genre with his debut novel, Ringlander: The Path and the Way—a journey told through multiple perspectives, from daring pathfinders and rebel generals to cunning spies. Set in a world where humans clash with the Bohr, a brutal and primal species, the story explores the fierce struggle for sovereignty and survival.
Grimdark Magazine caught up with Jackson to talk about the much-anticipated sequel, Ringlander: Fallen Shards, which raises the stakes, fractures the boundaries between worlds and further expands the already diverse cast of characters.
Fallen Shards is available now at mjackson.co.uk and from The Broken Binding.
[GdM] Welcome to Grimdark Magazine, Michael! It’s a pleasure to have you here discussing your latest release,
Ringlander: Fallen Shards
, the second novel (but third book, as you have previously released a prequel novella) in your Ringlander series. To get us started, can you introduce yourself by sharing traits you have in common with your world or characters?
[MSJ] Hello GDM! And thank you kindly for having me in. It’s a pleasure, and I’m a big fan, so answering questions for you is so exciting.
I’ve heard it said that you should write what you know, but where’s the fun in that?
Saying that though, Ringlander’s characters are definitely all a little (and sometimes big) part of me in one way or another. An extrapolation of the character I want, told through my life lens. It’s probably one of the rare jobs where being a people-watcher is a big advantage!
We’re all fascinating in our own special way, whether we’re aware of it or not, with stories and choices that helped build the weirdness that is us. I hang a lantern on that distinction and try to create and develop someone memorable.
Astir from The Path and the Way is a bit-part character but comes to mind straight away, his directness, and utter disregard for anyone’s feelings is very clearly my own impatience at work, then Fia who is the exact opposite, emotional and warm (at least when we first meet her) has to be the father in me. Kyira, the pragmatist who is forced to acknowledge emotions she chooses to put away, and then Abika, who is an unbalanced force of nature, curious, destructive, and moulded by events far out of her control. Abika’s mission to understand who she is drives the plot of Fallen Shards like a train.
[GdM] Being a sequel to the first novel, Ringlander: The Path and the Way , how are you feeling about this new release, and what are your current plans for this series? Is it to be a trilogy? Longer?
[MSJ] Fallen Shards is the best thing I’ve written. I knew going in that it was going to be more focused as the series progresses and I’m so pleased with the final novel, both in its own right and as a continuation of The Path and the Way. A trilogy is the plan, and Book 3 has a tentative title that I’ll be revealing next year, but I’m also considering a longer series. There will also be more novellas that deepen the back stories (much like the first novella The Battle that was Lost deepens the back stories of The Path and the Way.)
[GdM] How does it pick up and expand on the elements of book one? And what will keep Grimdark Magazine readers glued to the pages of both the first and second instalments?
[MSJ] GDM readers will love the darkness of Ringlander. Other readers have definitely found the grimdark elements in Ringlander a bit of a shock, but from the very first line of The Path and the Way you can see that influence and the whole series grows stronger as a result.
I’ve always been attracted to the dark part of the psyche. Abercrombie’s First Law opened my eyes to unapologetic character arcs—life has darkness as much as light, and people are no different, so I honour the characters by letting them explore those extremes. Jagar, for example, is absolute evil, intelligent and manipulative, shrewd and unkind and I adore him for it.
Fallen Shards is a continuation and exploration of that same darkness through the main character, Abika. Her experience of darkness is much deeper than simply describing death in a visceral way (Thank you Glokta). Abika experiences a cruel world first hand from an already disadvantaged position and has to get to grip with her choices as even the Gods of Rengas turn their back on her. Well, not all of them…
Here is that first paragraph from book 1.
Kyira dragged her belt blade through the slaver’s throat, acutely aware of each tendon and muscle tugging on the fine serrated edge. Warm blood burst out over her hand; she had taken the vein. A momentary flutter, but she clenched the bone handle and completed the movement, as though preparing a pig for the Feast of Moons.
[GdM] In your newsletter, you’ve mentioned Ringlander came about in a moment of pure drive, brought on by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson’s A Memory of Light , that you described finishing as: “The poignant moment that struck me as I sat on the train however, was not how I could be like Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson, but rather that the book I held was no longer just a thing to be read. It was made, and just like them, I could be a maker.”. Where does this passion for making come from, and what about Ringlander could inspire the same in its readers?
[MSJ] To be honest I have no idea where it comes from. I love to make things—I get antsy when I’m not writing, coding, drumming or designing. I wish I could say why this monkey sits permanently on my back. The only thing I do know is I always made the effort to make the creative part as self sustaining as possible. I wouldn’t just draw, I’d try and draw then sell the pieces. I wouldn’t just design, I’d start a company and design for people. The downside of that though, is that it can all just feel like work and I’m constantly comparing myself to other artists. Then there’s the imposter syndrome…
I still find it crazy that people enjoy the creations I make, writing chief amongst them. Occasionally though I do feel the confidence coming through nice and strong, and on those days I really do think that writing is just the purest form of expression and I truly cannot get enough of it.
[GdM] Speaking of creation, you built your very own map for this series (which, I noticed, starts with depicting the small part of this world where the story is set in book one, and expands in the sequel to show the entire continent of Rengas, following the journey and mapping of one of your main characters, and I really really loved that detail). Say, how does it feel to be so cool?
[MSJ] Yus! I’ve never thought of myself as cool so if you think I’m cool I will take that and keep it in my pocket.
Drums have always been there for me. I used to play in a metal band and regularly did session work, but I no longer play with other musicians. Mostly because family time is far more important, but there still ain’t nothing better than exercising demons by tearing through a Tool album.
The map started as just another Bilbo moment “why shouldn’t I…” and I dunno, it just grew into a proper project.
Author Michael S. Jackson[GdM] Wise words. And where did the adventure start? Can you share the process of building this map?
[MSJ] Maps are hugely important to book 1, and to Kyira’s back story, and proof of her intentions going forward. Still, I’d never made a map before, but as a designer (my day job) I was comfortable enough in Illustrator to consider trying it. It was also something to keep me sane while I was editing The Path and the Way, and the more I got into it the more I got into it!
I built it in layers, drawing on a non-touchscreen Wacom tablet. I went with the terrain first and just gradually added the detail. I figured out pretty early that maps are just layers and layers of detail so over time it kind of comes together by itself, creating layers of contours and terrain until a landscape starts making itself visible. I was able to use the same vector graphics I’d built in Adobe Illustrator to create some more typically fantasy styled ones without too much effort, which was a lot of fun to do.
The blog post I wrote on how I built the map gets a ridiculous amount of views too, which is both baffling and wonderful. You can see it at https://mjackson.co.uk/tutorials/building-a-fantasy-world-map-using-adobe-illustrator
[GdM] Now with the drums all set, which of your characters would you form a band with and why?
[MSJ] Oh man! For Fallen Shards, and we’re talking black metal right? Then definitely Vasta singing or rather, growling like Meshuggah. Jekob on the guitar and Felinski on bass. Abika would be on tamborine. Death tamborine. Fia and Eris on the decks.
For The Path and the Way, Jagar and Fia as the singers, Kyira on bass and Laeb on guitar. Then Magister Firam jazzing the tritone brass over the top. Nice.
“Hey guys, do you need a drummer?”
[GdM] In several interviews and a previous Reddit AMA, you wrote that you purposefully challenged yourself to write several female main characters in your story, detailing this process of getting to know and understand perspectives outside your instinctual, usual lens. How did this change, or not, the Ringlander series? Particularly in Fallen Shards , where one of our main characters is a very… peculiar, to say the least (and violent, to be generous), 12-year-old girl? Or is that an unfair assessment of her character?
[MSJ] No way. You’re right! Abika is messed up. She was also very fun to write, but I am definitely not a 12 year old girl. I do have a daughter though, so I had some experience of that, but really it was the game The Last of Us that left that particular mark on me. Ellie was so well written, and her brutal responses are not typical when considering some of the more tropey female characters from classic fantasy. I chose to empower my female characters by making them front and centre, and also not by making them just male-like in their responses. For example, Fia is so strong, and grows so much from book 1 to book 2, but still she retains her femininity throughout her hard life. Writing Fia is one of my absolute favourite things to do.
Abika though, being so young, presented me with a different challenge. Age. My daughter was a big inspiration for Abika, because she too is unapologetic and true to what she wants. She decides a thing and then that’s it, it happens. I cannot tell you how proud that makes me. I channeled some of that wonder into Abika and she came alive.
Like Jorg from the Broken Empire who is written like an adult but is a child which made all of those brutal things extra shocking! Lawrence’s Broken Empire taught me that I absolutely had to have some plot-driven device to force Abika into the person she becomes in Fallen Shards.
Even with all of that, the beta readers still had to help me sharpen Abika, because in the first few drafts of Fallen Shards she was too violent. They had problems believing anyone could be so cold and uncaring. I pulled it back a little and she became a dark and driven main character with an emotional core who is struggling to discover who she is.
It was extremely important to me that I was able to write convincing female voices. Whether or not I’ve been successful I leave to you, dear reader.
[GdM] If Fallen Shards was a bingo card, what would some of the squares be?
[MSJ] Ohhhh, good question. I like lists, so let’s do a list.
Jedi/Padawan (master/apprentice)Realisation of powersSomeone falls in the sea (I grew up in the sea…I’m basically a fish)BoatsPregnancy (I have multiple children)Gods (Who wouldn’t want to meet their creator?)Portals (Multiverse, branes and converging realities…)Big scary lizardsTerrifying Hans-Landa’esque tortuous madman villainZombies![GdM] One major theme connecting the series is the main conflict between human and Bohr, the invading empire meant to subjugate and eliminate the human race. Yet we are also shown that they are similar, and can even bear human-Bohr children. What are the similarities and differences between these two races and what story do these allow you to tell?
Spoiler warning: This answer includes some details about book 1 and 2.
[MSJ] The Bohr human relationship is definitely nuanced, and for a very good reason, but it’s not something I should really drop here yet.
The society and history of Rengas is built around the dynamic between Bohr and humans. The Path and the Way sets the tone with the much larger Bohr being the oppressors, but I wanted to unravel that expectation for book 2. I love the idea that we’re presented with a truth in one story, and then when we break into later, it turns out to be something else entirely. Making that appear natural is really hard work, and there are a lot of moving parts in Ringlander.
Vasta was the key to unlocking that relationship in Fallen Shards. I wrote his first scene and called it “Wasted” one evening whilst having a bath (which is included at the end of The Path and the Way—ed: the chapter not the bathwater). It was the first thing I wrote for book 2. The beta readers loved Vasta so I spent a lot of time letting his personality shine through.
[GdM] What scene or line in Fallen Shards are you most proud of writing?
Spoiler warning: This answer includes some details about book 1 and 2.
[MSJ] I’m going to give you a few. There is a central scene in Fallen Shards that helped me realise just how important Abika’s emotional journey was to Fallen Shards. That’s all I will say, but it is just devastating.
Another scene is a whole chapter called Evesgiving and it is brutal, bloody and even has a little smut at the end. It was the most fun thing I’ve written. It introduces Kaliste in such a unique and interesting way and also gives an insight into the world of the Bohr.
The last scene is in the chapter Minerva. I was heavily influenced by the Hinderstap (Bubble of evil) chapter in Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time book The Gathering Storm. I’m also a huge zombie fan. I knew I wanted this chapter in the book from the beginning, and it acted as a signpost for Abika’s quest. I am so proud of this part of the story, and without saying too much it has some much wider implications for the series.
There are too many lines to choose from that make me proud but it’s gotta be this one because it’s important to Abika’s story:
“This is the gift I leave with you, Abika. Take it, take them all. They belong to you now.”
[GdM] Describe these four concepts from the world of Rengas as they would appear in a dictionary entry: Pathwatcher, Banéman, Kumpani, Briš.
[MSJ] Pathwatchers are descendants of the Kartta, map makers of old who knew and documented the lands, but in a world dominated by the Bohr, maps are illegal and the only way to pass down knowledge of the many thousands of routes through the frozen continent of Nord was to pass it down through the generations. Kyira is of the Sami tribes, and she is and was a Pathwatcher.
The Banèmen are Children of the Bohr, sometimes shortened to “Child”, a term coined to describe Bohr being born with the ability to touch Soulfire, the magic of the Ringlander universe. Their ruthless, inbred ways means the Children of the Bohr often become assassins. Slayers. Banèmen. Jagar and Kaliste are Banèmen of the highest order who have different magical gifts.
The Kumpani are beautiful men and women who are revered and respected. Rengas is a culture where sex as a profession is not looked down upon. They are powerful, thoughtful and clever, skilled in the arts and only they choose their clients. It is said that the Kumpani have more power than many of the Council and are known for being players of games. And Fia was one of the best Kumpani, until that is, she created the Fifth Union from the ashes of a dead rebellion.
Briš Is a dice game that I spent a silly amount of time designing for one particular scene. I then edited most of the detail out because it had filled the chapter full of bloat! I was so sad to do that, but the story always has to be at the centre, not the world.
The first book of an epic fantasy series always has so much to do and without tooting my trumpet too loudly, bringing together multiple ideas into a cohesive narrative is my bag. So, if you like multiple character POVs and plots with a good splash of darkness I’d heartily and humbly recommend Ringlander for your shelf.
[GdM] Michael, it’s been fantastic catching up with you and getting to hear more about RINGLANDER and your own journey. Thanks for sticking around! But before you go, let us know, what are your future plans, for this series or otherwise?
[MSJ] The audiobook for Fallen Shards is due in Spring 2026 and I’m working again with the amazing narrator Ulf Bjorklund. Please check him out if you’re a writer looking for a narrator (https://www.instagram.com/ulfvo_narrator/*).*
If you made it this far, I also have a very very exciting and secret thing that I’m working on which is taking form as we speak and should be ready to reveal before Christmas this year
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