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Aleksandr
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Nov 15, 2011 12:41PM
I'm determined to. Once I can calm down a bit. :)
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Awww, thanks, Lisa. I'm overwhelmed by the support and the kindness and generosity of "my" readers. You guys (and gals, and everybody in between) are awesome. Blowing my mind AND my socks off.
I left a longer message on your blog, but want to say I admire your strength and wish you well. And I know that the presence of V. and this whole mess, has inspired several writers (including me) to add trans characters to works in progress. Thus hopefully adding our voices to the call for acceptance and understanding (as close as we can come to getting it right, anyway.) And you will write again; you are above all a writer.
Kaje - thank you. I'm hoping I'll grab a minute to respond to all the comments on the blog. Lots of really important issues that need to be addressed there, many stories of people emerging who seem to all breathe a collective sigh of relief. If we're just portrayed as human, valid, real people in fiction, we'll win half the battle. I believe in the power of the written word - and of fiction - to help us (all members of the rainbow and allies) to make the world a more human place.
Lenore - It'll happen. It will all happen. Huge amount of liberated energy going on right now. Breathe deeply. And smile.
Aleksandr wrote: "Lenore - It'll happen. It will all happen. Huge amount of liberated energy going on right now. Breathe deeply. And smile."I will. Breathe deeply. And smile. As long as I feel you're happy, too. And that you'll stay around.
I'm here. Looks I just stepped on the Big Stage - creeping away is pretty much impossible now. :) (And unethical. I opened the can of worms, I'm gonna eat it now :) )
You deserve nothing less than the Big Stage, love. And I mean that in the most positive way possible.
I left a longer post on your blog, but wanted to add my support here as well. You are one of the most courageous men I know and I admire you for taking this step (which, by no means was one you HAD to take). Thank you for doing it - I hope that it will be a wake-up call for the people who seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around this aspect of life.It is good to have you back - kicking ass (not so much eating the worms, LOL).
Lenore - I guess it just happened; I did try my best to wriggle out of it. :)Serena - Thanks! I will respond more in-depth at my blog. So much stuff I want to say and that needs to say, and everybody deserves a considered response, which I want to take my time for. If we save just one kid/person from anguish, it's all good in my book.
And, will I ever reclaim enough of my dignity to write again with confidence and grace?
Will I?
I think this entire blog post answers that question in the affirmative.
Will I?
I think this entire blog post answers that question in the affirmative.
Aleksandr, I'm deeply impressed by you and your blog post and totally in awe of your strength and courage. Thank you for putting yourself out there and letting me learn at your expense.Lilli
Kate Mc - it's all Silvio... "Giving up yet, bitch? Who do you think you are? You got stories to write, get going!" - he can be merciless. But first I have to ride out what I started here. Lilli - Thank you for lending an open ear and an open mind for my story, which is really just one of many. People willing to learn, to understand and to cherish our many differences will make the difference. Thank you.
Aleks, your courage is admirable. It is never easy to open yourself up for inspection, which ultimately leads to judgement, from those you love and trust, let alone an entire worldwide internet community. I'll say it again, your courage is admirable. It saddens me that you felt compelled to rationalize your "passing", WTF gives the community at large the right to judge you? or request interest in your life outside of your fiction? I totally understand your sentiment, "I'm a writer, not a human rights activist". However, now it seems you are a reluctant yet motivating activist? And I support you. We don't "know" each other, but it's not required that I know you in order for me to know that this bullying is wrong.
I hope you'll continue on writing the books I want to read. Which means well thought out, well written characters, with emotion and conflicts I can relate to. I'll be honest, I'd like some M/M smut too! :)
I don't know whether I'll "post" when I'm done. My main reason for being involved with GR is to find out about books. I don't care who writes the books. I simply want a good story. I don't follow blogs or gossip. I have no idea what is going on behind the books. But I'll admit I made a couple of pretty strong comments to some GR friends concerning a recent incident. It popped on the feeds, I backtracked to read the comments and I reacted in a private discussion. Basically my thought was, you got outed, it was messed up, deal with it. I can say now my insensitive reaction was due to ignorance. I didn't get it. So even though you don't owe me any type of explanations about anything and it would never occur to me to ask or demand such things from you or any author, I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts and experiences. If it matters, know you helped open up my eyes and understand. I didn't know. All the best to you and thank you.
You will. There is so much I would like to say to you, but I can't, I have trouble breathing. It's like I'm suffocating. You are so brave to make yourself so vulnerable, because you didn't need to do this. Like you said, we don't have the right to ask you to open up and share your life with us. Wenn ich es konnte, wuerde ich jetzt meine Gedanken und Gefuehle zum Ausdruck bringen, aber ich kann es nicht. Was auch immer passiert und wozu du dich entscheidest, ich wuensche dir alles gute im Leben.
Not sure when this all started, or how or why, but I LOVE your writing. This week alone, I recommended The Lion of Kent to three people, so continue to do you. This post took a lot of courage, and, dare I say it, 'balls' so please take heart that there are people out here who support you, who appreciate your talent and are grateful that you share it with us. Your business is exactly that and you don't owe anyone anything. Continue to mentor those you can and keep yourself open to receive the good.
Shit, Aleks, this is a no-brainer. You know who you are infinitely better than anyone else ever will. How could someone not take your word for it? I've always believed in Thoreau's admonition to "simplify, simplify!" So, in my world, there are two kinds of people: assholes and not-assholes. As long as you (or anyone, for that matter) fall into the latter category, you're okay by me. Everything else is immaterial.
@K.Z. I always thought the categories were "human" and "wankjob" ... *scratches head*Mister Voinov, you already know this and it's rather apparent it's not needed, but I love and respect you SIR. =) Always have, always will, comrade.
Why the impertinence of people still amazes me I honestly don't know. I follow some authors more closely than others because I enjoy their writing, their stories, their voices. These are the most important things to me. I could care less about the authors private bits, it's really none of my business. People have been writing under pseudonyms for years and years and no one has ever really questioned that. And if they have I obviously haven't cared enough to find out. But now in this seemingly "small" & "welcoming" genre people feel "they need to know" more than necessary. Now this "need to know" is forcing writers to feel they should stop writing or changing their voices is simply wrong. If you can't just enjoy an author's voice without needing to know every little thing about them, move on to someone that fits what makes you feel warm and fuzzy. The rest of us that don't care or need to know will pick up the slack. I don't believe you ever lost any of your dignity, if you had I don't think you would have responded they way you have, and Congrats for that. Please keep writing in your voice and those of us that love it WILL keep reading
And, will I ever reclaim enough of my dignity to write again with confidence and grace? You will.
Aleksandr people have troubles with lies. You didn't deceive anyone. And you have every possible right be happy and proud of yourself.
Heather - Thank you! (And yes, it looks very much like the sexy parts will keep coming). I'm reluctant because I don't want to make this about "me". If you choose to act as if you're representing a group of people, it has to be done with a lot of care and thought, and that's a huge battle to fight. THAT said, as many trans* and queer writers have expressed they agree with my sentiments, I'm OK to keep speaking up and out. I'm not sure it's activism, but it's certainly education, I hope, representation, and, I hope, an overall positive influence on the debate and community. Even if it's just lending a voice to those who prefer to keep "passing" and express their support in private. I just feel it's important to hear more trans* voices in this.Td - We need to make sure that we keep "the recent incident" (and certain writer's deplorable behaviour towards their readers and fellow writers) completely divorced from the trans* issues. I'm not defending the certain someone, but even if you remove the trans* element in the discussion, there's plenty left over to discuss. In other words, even trans* people can be assholes. But it's important to not hit a whole group of people and removing their safe space and hound them out of the community because somebody has been an asshole, or, to put it more diplomatically, has acted in a deplorable, inexcusable way towards fellow writers and fans.
I feel the trans* and queer writers have been turned into collateral damage and we were dismayed because nobody would even consider our part of the discussion. The overspilling hostility towards us has been severely triggering for all of us, whether we choose to be "out" or not. All most of us want is to pass, be part of humanity and feel like we're respected, whatever our gender or sexuality. I think that part of the community was left choking in the rubble when things went nuclear. If we all understand better where we're coming from and gain new respect and understanding, then, hell, it's all worth it.
Arzu - much love. Hope you managed to catch some sleep there. :)
Sara - Nope, that's the community. Much going on behind the scenes, too - all constructive and fucking brilliant.
Nile Princess - thank you very much, also for the recommendation, your praise and the support. Once all this has settled a bit, I'm going to write "Lion's Share" with Kate. I know she's waiting for me to hand in my chapters. :) And, yes, keeping myself open to receive the good - that's a huge challenge at times, and very wise advice. I'll do my very best. Thank you.
Gianthogweed - Thank you. (First thing you read of me? Holy hell, what a start! :) )
K.Z. - Thanks! I agree - I think those two labels work fine. They definitely cover all angles. :)
Rhi - *fist bump*DeWanda - Thank you. I think part of this part and parcel of being an indie author. We all (authors and readers) jumped on the chance to be close to each other and talk direct. Unfortunately, it's a bit like with mobile phones - they appeared, and suddenly people talk out loud on the bus or while they are actually talking to somebody else.
*Manners* haven't caught up with technology. We basically have very little experience to fall back on where we can draw a line of how much we can - or should - share with each other, or how much we should be able to "demand" to know. I'm more open and communicative than most (because I really enjoy meeting new people and have become friends with many of my readers), and it's hard to draw the line in the sand and say "up to here, and, with all due respect, please do NOT cross this line, because this IS private." It's important to ensure that people don't feel they have to expose themselves to find readers, and that those who do reveal details about their private lives do so in a safe environment. I hope we all learn to use these methods of communication better over time. We'll learn from every experience.
Darkm - Yeah. The "lying" bit is really quite complex (oh dear, another long blog post). Almost every trans person out there has "tried on" a number of identities. I know trans men who were, at some parts in their lives, straight women, lesbians, bisexual women, transgendered, and trans male (or really: male) - anmd all of those were "true" identities and not lies.
Identity evolves, and there are many examples of that in the community, so I can't say "this person is a real XY, and this person is a faker." I wasn't born with an unshakeable faith/knowledge in what I am. It's something I developed/grew towards. And gods, the things people will do to be inconspicuous and invisible? Many of us pay a huge cost for our identity.
Wow, this is deep. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I also can understand why you feel the way you do. However, I am very disappointed at some of the things you stated, even though you have a right to express whatever you want to say. What I am referring to is the name calling you have done about the GR MM Romance Group. I am a member of that group. A proud member. I don't have time to read a bunch of blogs or all of the posts in every single folder. I also did not make a negative comment about AJ, you, V or anyone else. So why did you feel that we are "the lynch mob of the M/M Goodreads Group?" Aren't you judging all of us by a few? Isn't that wrong? You should never let anyone force you to quit what you want to do. Who the hell is anyone to get you to do that? They aren't important. Don't give anyone that power. I've been there done that and I know sometimes its easier said then done. You have to be you regardless of what anyone else thinks.
But I have to question how it is right for you to go after the things you didn't like that were said with equally negative comments directed at all? How does that make sense? I'm trying to understand how this all got blown up to this point and how it can be repaired.
What I do know is that it will take courage from all parties to take responsibility for the hurtful things that were said and to take time to reflect and acknowledge that we're not perfect, we can choose to forgive and move on in a more positive and open fashion and learn from our mistakes.
I just ask that you not do what you accuse others of doing to you. I wish you joy and happiness.
Darkm - Yeah. The "lying" bit is really quite complex (oh dear, another long blog post). Almost every trans person out there has "tried on" a number of identities. I know trans men who were, at some parts in their lives, straight women, lesbians, bisexual women, transgendered, and trans male (or really: male) - anmd all of those were "true" identities and not lies. But this is not what I call lying. Is rather a journey toward our place in the universe.
I'm sorry for your pain :(
Hi Monica - thank you for your comment and your thoughts. I haven't actually called any names - I haven't called any individual out on their behaviour.That said, a small, vocal group in the M/M Romance community has actively hounded, disparaged and bullied trans and queer writers. At least two moderators have been actively hostile and made transphobic statements. I have even received emails from a moderator of that group urging me "to come out and be done with it". Coming out is a deeply personal process and NOBODY should be outed against their will.
I've received emails from members of that community asking me "what" I am. (Not, not "who", but "WHAT". Words count, and attacks on my dignity as a human being were not welcome.) I've been told that the community is a "safe space" - well, I maintain that for trans and queer writers, it is anything but. I left that group in disgust, and I know others have too, for the same reasons.
A moderator of a GBLTQQ (alphabet soup) literature group - where a sizeable group of writers ARE trans, queer, gays, lesbians and other rainbow people - should ensure that there's no bullying going on. I am angered and saddened that somebody demanding to see our birth genders (and our publishers to POLICE that!) wasn't shouted down for the blatantly hostile, ignorant and transphobic nature of that - and many other - statements.
Telling me "oh, sure, we get a little passionate sometimes" as an excuse is NOT providing a safe space. And THOSE are the same people that collected money and videos for the anti-bullying campaigns? Sorry, but that is so ironic I struggle to express it.
I know that the vast majority of the group didn't take part in the bullying and hounding, but those who did - were left unpoliced, uneducated, and basically CHEERED for their blatant hostility.
So, a small - vocal - minority has given the group a bad name among trans* and queer writers, who, for the record, have donated money, interacted with their readers and donated a ton of free books to stuff the prize vaults - in return for being bitchslapped and people attempting to tear their clothes off in public.
It's been deplorable behaviour, and, yes, I'm calling this out. I'm sorry if you feel hurt and are innocent and caught in the collateral damage - like me. I put my identity on the line, so sorry if I hurt others by calling out hostile behaviour that reflects badly on all of us.
@Monica: I don't think he was referring to everyone there in general. I think it was just as he said. The lynch mob over there, specifically them. I agree that most there are nice, though.My confidence in Mod Lori has dropped. She PM'ed me saying that she closed the thread because she realized it was going downhill and had the potential to become very nasty (a bit too late if you ask me). She started it on the YA group first, saw it go downhill there. Then opened it on the main MM group despite seeing what happened on the YA group.
She closed it after I left and PM'ed me expressing sadness at how things turned out on the thread...and then goes right back to open it up again. I am all for freedom of speech but the mods there have done very little if anything to keep it within tasteful limits.
Darkm wrote: "But this is not what I call lying. Is rather a journey toward our place in the universe.I'm sorry for your pain :( ..."
I think it IS more complex than that. The basic truth of most trans* people who want to live their lives being seen as the gender the feel they are, is that they are not lying when they state their real gender (as opposed to the genetic/biological one).
The sad fact is that when they are outed through circumstances, those people who do not understand trans* mentality and needs call it a 'lie', or 'deceit'.
It isn't. Like with Aleks, it is an attempt to live the way they want to live. Any outside influence that forces them to 'come out' is cruel, intolerant and causes huge mental and emotional suffering.
Does the attempt to 'pass' as the gender they feel they are sometimes necessitate what others would call a lie? Sure it does. Are mistakes made because the need to identify as a persona that reflects their inner gender is so pressing and urgent that they lose sight of some aspects of what they so? Quite possibly.
But, here is my question for you, Darkm, and for everyone who has doubts: when that person, who has been forced to come out due to others' actions, apologizes for all they have done wrong (the consequences of their need to be themselves) - who are we not to forgive them? Who are we not to give them at least the benefit of the doubt?
What is so different about 1) someone who was outed by force (a devastatingly cruel thong to happen to anyone), 2) someone who outs themselves because they feel they have to for moral or other reasons, and 3) someone who is ready to come out and does so as part of getting on with their lives?
Please don't forget that for many gay, lesbian and bisexual people the 'inner battle' is about coming out and TELLING the wolrd who they really are, so they can feel free and be themselves.
For most trans* people the issue is exactly opposite: the battle is about NOT HAVING TO TELL the world what their genetic identity is. So, using the same measurement to 'be open about who you are so you can be free' does NOT apply to them. In fact, it destroys their very soul to have to conform to that rule.
We need to understand and accept this if we want to earn the right to call ourselves open-minded and tolerant.
Adrian - exactly. I've received a message from one of the mods expressing dismay that I would "attack" their group which has done SO MUCH for GLBTQQ people - all the money they collected, and how the discussions sometimes got "passionate" and how "everybody is entitled to their opinion".Ironically, much hostility directed against rainbow people is pegged under "freedom of expression". You're allowed to speak your mind even if you're a hateful bully. Well, as it's freedom of expression, then I'm allowed to call them hateful bullies - and meanwhile not expose myself to hostility, ridicule or half-baked, ignorant statements.
What I have NOT received (not any trans or queer writer driven to despair by the goings-on) is an apology. All the community has done was launch a mutually congratulatory love fest of "but we didn't do anything wrong", while several trans and queer writers have left - and I urge them to all leave.
This space is toxic and destructive to us - and it's the moderators' job to change that, which means making sure it never happens again, taking the trans* and queer writers seriously and treating them with respect THEY DESERVE, and then issuing an honest-to-good sincere apology.
Telling me "we can't possibly police our members" tells me two things: a) it's not safe for me or or any trans/queer writer/reader to interact there, and b) they don't even care.
Until this vocal hate group is silenced, one way or other, I'd strongly suggest for all authors to leave the group and stop supporting it, but of course, every author can make that decision on their own.
@Serena - Bravo. EXACTLY. It's the HUGE difference between "coming out" (which is destructive to trans* people) and "passing" (which is the only way to live without the pressure and self-loathing.
Aleks,Like I said in another post: CLASS ACT!
I think I've fallen in love with you, all over again. :D
Mary - Thank you. You are awesome. :)Gianthogweed - I have Widow's story racing through my brain now - he's been VERY vocal over the last few days. VERY.
Aleks, my dear, I think you /are/ a leader, despite your best efforts. I can't think of anyone else who is as articulate or as prepared to fight your corner.That someone I care about, that's you btw, has been hurt to the extent that he contemplates giving up something that I know he loves as well as something he's superlatively good at is a true cause for outrage. That other people in a similar position have been bullied and harried and had their right to existence threatened fills me with anger. That a community that, until now, I thought prided itself on being welcoming and inclusive should behave with such knee jerk savagery is both baffling and terrifying. And there, I suppose, my cis-gendered privilege shows. Maybe I shouldn't be so shocked that people can be so utterly shitty to each other?
You're probably not the sort of person to want virtual hugs or I would send them. And good for Silvio. I think he's got it right even though, sadly, this is a conflict that should /not/ be happening. You have my support in any way I can provide it.
Omg! This is so unexpected...I've not been following goodreads too closely the past couple of days. And i just started reading Counterpunch and just happened to click on your page only to be greeted with this first thing in the morning! It is extremely sad and disheartening!I truly appreciate your writing as so refreshing amongst all the junk out there that it was a pleasure to have found an author such as you who could write so wonderfully. Frankly, i thought and think that you're a man - there was no question in my mind and as a matter of fact - an author's gender is actually none of my damn business!! And that's what makes this even more tragic. To think that the "gay community" would be more forgiving 'cos they've been through and still go through so much bias from the "het community", to think that they are biased over trans* people is shocking and heartbreaking...!
Nobody and i mean nobody on this planet can choose to be born any different than they are, and NO, the universe does not have a return policy 'cos we are NOT non-living entities we are human beings for crying out loud! Shame on those bigoted "gay" fools to dish out the same cruel behavior as the "straight and narrow community" dishes out towards them! We as people might have physical boundaries but everyone know that the HUMAN imagination knows no boundaries! You can be who you are and still be a fabulous writer - why can't they get that!
Reading your thoughts and your struggle uptil now, i can only say this to you Aleksandr - You are a strong person, you have spirit, don't let anybody tell you any different! You do what you have to, to protect yourself physically, mentally and emotionally. You do not owe any "group" or "readers" anything regarding your private life. They don't have the right! I mean people write behind pen-names all the time without disclosing anything! That's the purpose of it isn't it!? It is your publisher's responsibility to honor your privacy and for you to guard it as you see fit within legal bounds. "Bias" is something that is ingrained in humans no matter what century you're in, you'll get to see it in one form or another. Best to just shield yourself and do what you love. You are a SPLENDID storyteller and I'd Hate to see you stop writing just 'cos some people can't deal!
You have the full support of this "straight but not narrow" female...
(I think i'm beginning to hate that description 'cos i hate being stereotyped into anything! I'm only just a person with a brain and a heart...)
DO NOT STOP WRITING! You'll starve me - i mean it!

Looks familiar?
Adrian wrote: "My confidence in Mod Lori has dropped. She PM'ed me saying that she closed the thread because she realized it was going downhill and had the potential to become very nasty (a bit too late if you ask me). She started it on the YA group first, saw it go downhill there. Then opened it on the main MM group despite seeing what happened on the YA group..."I'm not going to defend our group anymore. Everyone can weigh the pros and cons of the group themselves and decide whether or not they want to stay. I would like to correct a couple of things that Adrian brings up though.
In regards to the YA group, I started a thread asking some questions about whether or not the gender of the author mattered and how a reader would feel if they found out the author wasn't honest about it. I didn't mention AJ although of course that's what prompted the questions. It's my personal opinion, and you are free to disagree with me, that we can learn a lot through honest discourse. That's the way I parent and that's the way I run the group sessions at the LGBT youth center I volunteer at. I felt it was a relevant and important topic to talk about.
I started the "Is He or Is She" thread in 2009, over two years ago. I was fairly new to the genre and was really surprised to lean that most of the very popular authors I was reading were female. I wasn't sure how I felt about suddenly discovering that and I wanted to know how other people felt. The thread was archived in March of 2010 for inactivity. A member of our group, not me and not another mod, re-opened it on November 6th and linked to a couple of blogs discussing the AJ issue. We let the discussion go on until a member took offense at your Hitler comment and the thread was derailed. I deleted her response and closed the thread. Yes, I did reopen it again to address the torch wielding lynch mob accusations. There were a few more posts made, the vast majority constructive and thought provoking and then it was closed again and will remain closed.
You can say what you will about my moderating skills, that's your prerogative. As far as the mods having "done very little if anything to keep it within tasteful limits." You're absolutely right. I should have deleted your Hitler post.
Oh Aleks, please don't give up on your writing just as I've started reading your books. Don't give up this avenue of expressing yourself as many of us will seek out anything you write.The intolerance and superiority that spawns bullying and bashing frightens me and I simply don't understand it.
I fear this may be in my grandson's future. At five he declared he didn't want to be a boy, he wanted to be a girl. Now eight, he loves nail polish, girl's clothes and his vast doll collection and for his 8th birthday asked for a sewing machine so he could make dresses like he saw on Project Runway his favorite TV show. His parents are supportive (though worried for him) and he is now learning to sew. Extremely bright and articulate, he can cry at the drop of a hat if someone is unkind to him.
This child has not made a choice of sexual orientation as he doesn't even know what sex is yet. He is simply trying to be himself, but it is obvious to me that should he continue his current course, many people will loathe him for it at some point. It makes me cry to even think about it.
Trey's picture is on my personal page and since my Goodreads name is not my real name, feel free to see who I am speaking of: Trey
Why is it so hard for many people to celebrate that we are ALL different and unique in our own way and to respect that?
Just want to say that I also felt the anti-author sentiment was scary in there at one point with mod support, and I'm generally a pretty mellow person. Lori, you especially do your best and I appreciate you and the group, but the feeling of threat was not an illusion limited to trans authors.
Dee wrote: "Oh Aleks, please don't give up on your writing just as I've started reading your books. Don't give up this avenue of expressing yourself as many of us will seek out anything you write.The intoler..."
Trey is beautiful and I am so glad there is so much support around Trey. I wish your family happiness.
Kaje wrote: "Just want to say that I also felt the anti-author sentiment was scary in there at one point with mod support, and I'm generally a pretty mellow person. Lori, you especially do your best and I appre..."I second that Kaje. Thank you for saying it.
Adrian wrote: "@Monica: I don't think he was referring to everyone there in general. I think it was just as he said. The lynch mob over there, specifically them. I agree that most there are nice, though.My conf..."
Adrian,
I respectfully disagree with you. I don't know who "them" is and the comment did not distinguish between them. I also disagree that it is the mods responsibility to remove every comment that you, me or anyone else doesn't like in general. There are always exceptions and I will get to that in a minute.
Freedom of speech isn't only convenient or right when its something we agree with. That right does extend to comments we don't like as well. At least as far as the US Constitution states. What's reasonable to you may not be reasonable to others and so on.
I will defend this group as a whole and the Mods as well. I don't like the comments that are coming from most of you against the group or the Mods. It seems hypocritical to me. Which brings me to when things get too far. I wasn't aware of the "Hilter" comment. To me, that is against the pail, and goes beyond anything one should say in anger. The person that said it should apologize immediately.
Each member of a group bears some responsibility to make a group work. No one is perfect. What are you doing to improve the situation? I'm stepping up and trying to see how we can get past this and learn from it. Who am I? Just a member of this group.
Monica, lets not dig up more specifics and call for apologies. How about we start doing some reading and writing, and critiquing, and maybe Damon's M/M soap opera idea, and the new awards, and all the other things that may pull us back together instead of break us apart. Deal?
Kaje wrote: "Monica, lets not dig up more specifics and call for apologies. How about we start doing some reading and writing, and critiquing, and maybe Damon's M/M soap opera idea, and the new awards, and all..."
Thank you, Kaje. Words of wisdom. :)
Thank you, Kaje. Words of wisdom. :)
Aleksandr wrote: "Hi Monica - thank you for your comment and your thoughts. I haven't actually called any names - I haven't called any individual out on their behaviour.That said, a small, vocal group in the M/M R..."
Alexs, I just don't get it. It appears to me that you don't want this to be over and it seems like you are now calling for a boycott and/or threatening people.
Everyone has a hand in creating a safe space. By continuing to make negative nasty comments you are letting the few turn you into them.
I just made the connection that you are the face of Riptide Publishing. I believe I congratulated you on one of the blogs and/or post for opening up your own business. I still wish you much success with Riptide. However, if someone a reader or author makes a comment on your website or thread that is negative, should be all tar and feather you for it? Should we not support your authors?
Can we not find a voice of reason from both sides that can come together to put together a thread where we can learn in a constructive manner what was offensive and why it was?
Sometimes we do have to take the time to educate people on why the comments they made were offensive. I happen to know what I'm talking about here.
I am an African American or Black or mixed woman who has had to educate others about people of color all the time. I want to scream some time at all the "innocent" comments that our offensive to people of color. For example, during President Obama's campaign for President, many people kept talking about how articulate Obama was. I and other people of color were highly offended by this. Why wouldn't he be articulate? Why would this be surprising? Why wasn't any other "white" candidate referred to as "articulate" or any of the other crazy racist comments that were said? Why were people asking for Obama's transcripts from school and no other president has ever been asked for his transcripts? I'm not going to get into the whole birth certificate issue. I hope you get my point.
I also want to ask you if you did indeed refer to someone as "Hitler"? I rather ask than assume. I am going to be upfront and state that I think that is horrible and deserves an apology, immediately. if you did state it, I am sure you said it in frustration and you were passionately caught up in the moment and you truly do not mean to refer to anyone that murdered Jews and held a dislike for anyone that didn't look like them.
Help me to understand how you could use that despicable man's name if you did use it. Even with the possibility that you used his name, I want to find a way that everyone can heal and try and move beyond this. Real leadership is stepping up to handle difficult situations.
Kaje wrote: "Monica, lets not dig up more specifics and call for apologies. How about we start doing some reading and writing, and critiquing, and maybe Damon's M/M soap opera idea, and the new awards, and all..."Ohhh, hello, nice to meet you, Sara here, can I be your slave for life?
:)
Monica wrote: "Freedom of speech isn't only convenient or right when its something we agree with. That right does extend to comments we don't like as well. At least as far as the US Constitution states. What's reasonable to you may not be reasonable to others and so on.."Several things come to my mind with your post Monica - the first is that I'm not American so the comment about the US Constitution is beyond me. It is a world group - or I thought it was. I didn't realise I was signing up to a set of American ideals when I became a member there and i will go over and check to see if that's the case.
But really, all I wanted to point out - and I may be wrong, but it's why I joined the group in the first place - is that by advertising itself as an M/M group, by openly supporting GLBTQ issues the group is offering a safe space for anyone that has a particular opinion on these very subjects and that is an opinion of open acceptance. NOT free speech - because that would suggest that the haters and the bigotts rampant in the world should also have free access to the threads and discussions and what they see as fodder in their own twisted campaigns of bullying. I thought the MM group was a safe haven - not a place for anyone to express opionions that may be contrary to the building and maintaining of that safe haven.
I apologise to anyone if I misinterpreted the foundation of the group. I had no intention of leaving it for the sake of a few but I do know that even in my ongoing membership I cannot and will not stand by and allow what I see as bullying in any form to go unchecked and i will continue to speak out against it. If we stand idly by and do nothing then we become guilty by association.
There is no place, in my opinion, for discrimination and even less place for it in a group that presents itself as actively working against it. In this, we should be allowed a voice.
Monica, Casey.
I suspect feelings are running too high at the moment and many people are feeling insecure and defensive about this whole issue. So it isn't the best time, nor is this the best place to argue about whether the m/m group is a safe haven or is packed with pitchfork wielding bigots. Obviously neither is true.
Let's not let this thread turn into another venue for hurt feelings and misunderstanding. Monica's request for an arena where people can learn and understand why the LBGTQ community, readers and authors, were so offended is great...and it belongs over in the m/m group where there is wide access and visibility. Mostly we need cooling off time and not to turn this thread into another flame war with loud denunciations and demands for apologies on all sides.
Please!!
I suspect feelings are running too high at the moment and many people are feeling insecure and defensive about this whole issue. So it isn't the best time, nor is this the best place to argue about whether the m/m group is a safe haven or is packed with pitchfork wielding bigots. Obviously neither is true.
Let's not let this thread turn into another venue for hurt feelings and misunderstanding. Monica's request for an arena where people can learn and understand why the LBGTQ community, readers and authors, were so offended is great...and it belongs over in the m/m group where there is wide access and visibility. Mostly we need cooling off time and not to turn this thread into another flame war with loud denunciations and demands for apologies on all sides.
Please!!
I'm all for moving on and getting back to what the M/M group stands for, a safe place for GLBT readers and writers. As readers we have two simple ways to judge our many authors. First with our wallets and secondly in our reviews, which hopefully are honest and never personally disparaging. Our authors owe us nothing more than their best effort in their writing. Any other expectations are simply unrealistic.




